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Dino · August 31st, 2010, 07:11 PM

WOW! Cuongism and tjkamper, you folks thoroughly answered my questions in the least amount of words! And a lot more clearly and maturely than at another forum. tjkamper's points 4 and 5 were the assurances that I knew I learned at the MSF but just forgot since it's been almost two years since I had taken it. I remember now that I do lean with the bike ("as an extension of the bike") at highway speeds but not when doing U-turns or really sharp turns when approaching a stoplight and making a right turn. Thanks also for confirming that you can lean the bike somewhat with your legs and that's how you can keep it steady on the freeway as well, definitely on the same page! I got answers back though I don't think they really understood my question as much as you did. I really appreciate everyone's feedback and I did get some good points from another forum but just not as thorough and succinct. I appreciate everyone's input!

I have highlighted in red some of the feedback I have received and have additional questions in the replies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiGs View Post
4. Lean the bike into the turn...you don't need to drag a knee or shift your butt. Never push your handlebars, ever, if you want to change lanes [signal] then move your bike with your body smoothly and gently to the next lane.
Thanks for the input! I think a lot of people misinterpret when you say, "not to turn the handlebars". I think the gist of what you're saying is that I won't actually have to turn the handlebar all the way to the left to go right but rather, because the ninja is so "flickable" (please correct me if I am wrong) that a slight push on the handlebar will be enough to start moving the bike in the direction that I want to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Converted One View Post
Yes, you want to shift your weight around when cornering. It helps to keep the bike planted.

Sure, if their friend is paying for it then genuine Kawasaki parts are great. But if he has to pay for it there is nothing wrong with the fairing you buy off of eBay. You just have to modify them a little bit.
When you say that you shift your weight when cornering, do I... 1) As I enter the turn "push right, lean right, go right looking through the turn and to where I want to exit while shifting my butt slightly to the right of the bike? and the roll on the throttle as I exit"

Quote:
Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post
Do you even ride a motorcycle? The faster you go, the harder it is to turn.
I figured that the faster you go the harder it is to turn, but it feels like even if I go 70-80 mph on the ninja, the slightest push on the handlebar starts moving the ninja either way. So when going straight, what is the correct way to keep it straight? (I resorted to almost just using three fingers to slightly keep the throttle going; haven't experimented with using the choke as "cruise control") other wise it's quite difficult to do the "one-hand-on-the-handlebar" trick, without the bike going from side to side. Like if I had my left hand on my waist or on the gas tank, If I tried to keep my right hand with a slight bend to relax, the bike wants to go in all kinds of directions. Perhaps because it's not a 600cc that this is the case? Maybe this "flickability" will go away when I upgrade to the wider tires. I know it might take away from the "flickability" of the bike, but I just want a smoother ride on the freeway. I don't quite understand yet the advantages of the skinny tires, why it was such a gigantic leap for motorcycles to have bigger tires in the back and then all of a sudden the ninja does not. Can someone please clarify this? What exactly would I gain/lose if I upgraded to wider tires?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pnorris1982 View Post
oh and those cheap ebay fairings are ****. The paint is terrible, as soon as a rock or pebble hits the bike it will chip the paint. Don't buy them you will be sorry.

Have any suggestions of where to buy good quality OEM ones? I can find OEM parts everywhere, but fairings, even ones that are "OEM" and are sold in the U.S., I can only find on EBay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rome2010 View Post
Counter steering makes life easy when riding....

Taking one hand off is always comfy...I rest my clutch arm on the tank time to time...(wierd?)
I like to rest my arm on the gas tank too! But it seems I can only confidently do it on street speeds but not highway

Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaland View Post
take a cruise.. doing about 20-30mph start twisting your hips side to side slowly.. theres your lower lean. easy to do when needing to change lanes or go around a slight curve.

i do this even at 70-80mph speeds with no problem at all..

i'd answer other questions but im just to lazy lol..
I took the MSF Basic Rider's Course about a year ago and haven't rode since I purchased the bike about a month ago. I tried reading through the booklet but didn't have much elaboration on turning. I just remember there was an exercise where we would swerve from side to side and another exercise where we'd be going straight and do a sudden swerve from side to side, but I can't for the life of me remember if it was at cruising speed or below and if I would swerve from side to side using "countersteer" or leaning my body instead, from the hips, and keeping my head up and straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post
OP... you're brave (or maybe stupid) for letting a friends co-worker ride your bike. Sounds like you dont even know the guy.
Well, when I initially met my friend's coworker, he had said that he used to ride 400cc bikes for a long time. So I had assumed he'd be okay on the bike; turns out he hadn't ridden in a while. But he is more than happy to replace the fairings, I felt kind of bad still that he fell and almost don't really want him to pay for anything just because... I don't know why. But I really did feel dumb after telling my insurance that I dropped the bike! I should have just told them someone tipped it over because now, they won't pay for anything!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goingtoscotland View Post
that is imprecise and it takes longer to accomplish than counter steering. in fact it's a mark of an inexperienced rider. you see someone riding down the highway changing lanes. they move their body, then a second later the bike follows. if you counter steer it is far far more precise and it is immediate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bamaland View Post
you dont see me moving my body.. its all one motion..
i said what i said so he can get the idea of how it works.
Yes, again thanks for the input everyone, I have been reassured that turning/changing lanes should be primarily consisting of "countersteer" but it still requires a little bit of everything, from turning your head to leaning with your body etc... Just forgot that "countersteering" is the starting point, even for just changing lanes. And when I do change lanes, I kind of do three things at once and everyone has confirmed this. However, the only thing I'm still not sure about is the whole exiting a freeway ramp scenario. I'm guessing for the majority of the time, since I always take the ramps at the posted speed limit, I won't have to shift my entire lower body off the bike and have my head to the right and forward. What I have been doing is just A) Push right, lean right, go right B) Look through the turn to where I want to exit C) While rolling on throttle, I have my body straight up and head turned with the bike leaning a little to the right.
Am I supposed to shift my butt to the left a little or just keep it upright like the rest of my body? And when doing a U-Turn, since it's not at cruising speed, I turn the handlebars like a regular bicycle but do I shift my butt at all to either side? I guess my brain still gets confused and is trying to adjust how to do turns correctly at highway speeds vs slowing down to a stoplight and turning right. I know I will ultimately have to ride more to figure all this out but ideally would like to have the correct procedures down first.

August 31st, 2010, 07:11 PM	#9
Dino ninjette.org member Name: Dino Location: San Diego Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 23	WOW! Cuongism and tjkamper, you folks thoroughly answered my questions in the least amount of words! And a lot more clearly and maturely than at another forum. tjkamper's points 4 and 5 were the assurances that I knew I learned at the MSF but just forgot since it's been almost two years since I had taken it. I remember now that I do lean with the bike ("as an extension of the bike") at highway speeds but not when doing U-turns or really sharp turns when approaching a stoplight and making a right turn. Thanks also for confirming that you can lean the bike somewhat with your legs and that's how you can keep it steady on the freeway as well, definitely on the same page! I got answers back though I don't think they really understood my question as much as you did. I really appreciate everyone's feedback and I did get some good points from another forum but just not as thorough and succinct. I appreciate everyone's input! I have highlighted in red some of the feedback I have received and have additional questions in the replies. Quote: Originally Posted by GiGs View Post 4. Lean the bike into the turn...you don't need to drag a knee or shift your butt. Never push your handlebars, ever, if you want to change lanes [signal] then move your bike with your body smoothly and gently to the next lane. Thanks for the input! I think a lot of people misinterpret when you say, "not to turn the handlebars". I think the gist of what you're saying is that I won't actually have to turn the handlebar all the way to the left to go right but rather, because the ninja is so "flickable" (please correct me if I am wrong) that a slight push on the handlebar will be enough to start moving the bike in the direction that I want to go. Quote: Originally Posted by Converted One View Post Yes, you want to shift your weight around when cornering. It helps to keep the bike planted. Sure, if their friend is paying for it then genuine Kawasaki parts are great. But if he has to pay for it there is nothing wrong with the fairing you buy off of eBay. You just have to modify them a little bit. When you say that you shift your weight when cornering, do I... 1) As I enter the turn "push right, lean right, go right looking through the turn and to where I want to exit while shifting my butt slightly to the right of the bike? and the roll on the throttle as I exit" Quote: Originally Posted by RecklessFable View Post Do you even ride a motorcycle? The faster you go, the harder it is to turn. I figured that the faster you go the harder it is to turn, but it feels like even if I go 70-80 mph on the ninja, the slightest push on the handlebar starts moving the ninja either way. So when going straight, what is the correct way to keep it straight? (I resorted to almost just using three fingers to slightly keep the throttle going; haven't experimented with using the choke as "cruise control") other wise it's quite difficult to do the "one-hand-on-the-handlebar" trick, without the bike going from side to side. Like if I had my left hand on my waist or on the gas tank, If I tried to keep my right hand with a slight bend to relax, the bike wants to go in all kinds of directions. Perhaps because it's not a 600cc that this is the case? Maybe this "flickability" will go away when I upgrade to the wider tires. I know it might take away from the "flickability" of the bike, but I just want a smoother ride on the freeway. I don't quite understand yet the advantages of the skinny tires, why it was such a gigantic leap for motorcycles to have bigger tires in the back and then all of a sudden the ninja does not. Can someone please clarify this? What exactly would I gain/lose if I upgraded to wider tires? Quote: Originally Posted by pnorris1982 View Post oh and those cheap ebay fairings are ****. The paint is terrible, as soon as a rock or pebble hits the bike it will chip the paint. Don't buy them you will be sorry. Have any suggestions of where to buy good quality OEM ones? I can find OEM parts everywhere, but fairings, even ones that are "OEM" and are sold in the U.S., I can only find on EBay. Quote: Originally Posted by rome2010 View Post Counter steering makes life easy when riding.... Taking one hand off is always comfy...I rest my clutch arm on the tank time to time...(wierd?) I like to rest my arm on the gas tank too! But it seems I can only confidently do it on street speeds but not highway Quote: Originally Posted by bamaland View Post take a cruise.. doing about 20-30mph start twisting your hips side to side slowly.. theres your lower lean. easy to do when needing to change lanes or go around a slight curve. i do this even at 70-80mph speeds with no problem at all.. i'd answer other questions but im just to lazy lol.. I took the MSF Basic Rider's Course about a year ago and haven't rode since I purchased the bike about a month ago. I tried reading through the booklet but didn't have much elaboration on turning. I just remember there was an exercise where we would swerve from side to side and another exercise where we'd be going straight and do a sudden swerve from side to side, but I can't for the life of me remember if it was at cruising speed or below and if I would swerve from side to side using "countersteer" or leaning my body instead, from the hips, and keeping my head up and straight. Quote: Originally Posted by Phalanx View Post OP... you're brave (or maybe stupid) for letting a friends co-worker ride your bike. Sounds like you dont even know the guy. Well, when I initially met my friend's coworker, he had said that he used to ride 400cc bikes for a long time. So I had assumed he'd be okay on the bike; turns out he hadn't ridden in a while. But he is more than happy to replace the fairings, I felt kind of bad still that he fell and almost don't really want him to pay for anything just because... I don't know why. But I really did feel dumb after telling my insurance that I dropped the bike! I should have just told them someone tipped it over because now, they won't pay for anything! Quote: Originally Posted by goingtoscotland View Post that is imprecise and it takes longer to accomplish than counter steering. in fact it's a mark of an inexperienced rider. you see someone riding down the highway changing lanes. they move their body, then a second later the bike follows. if you counter steer it is far far more precise and it is immediate. Quote: Originally Posted by bamaland View Post you dont see me moving my body.. its all one motion.. i said what i said so he can get the idea of how it works. Yes, again thanks for the input everyone, I have been reassured that turning/changing lanes should be primarily consisting of "countersteer" but it still requires a little bit of everything, from turning your head to leaning with your body etc... Just forgot that "countersteering" is the starting point, even for just changing lanes. And when I do change lanes, I kind of do three things at once and everyone has confirmed this. However, the only thing I'm still not sure about is the whole exiting a freeway ramp scenario. I'm guessing for the majority of the time, since I always take the ramps at the posted speed limit, I won't have to shift my entire lower body off the bike and have my head to the right and forward. What I have been doing is just A) Push right, lean right, go right B) Look through the turn to where I want to exit C) While rolling on throttle, I have my body straight up and head turned with the bike leaning a little to the right. Am I supposed to shift my butt to the left a little or just keep it upright like the rest of my body? And when doing a U-Turn, since it's not at cruising speed, I turn the handlebars like a regular bicycle but do I shift my butt at all to either side? I guess my brain still gets confused and is trying to adjust how to do turns correctly at highway speeds vs slowing down to a stoplight and turning right. I know I will ultimately have to ride more to figure all this out but ideally would like to have the correct procedures down first.