Quote:
Originally Posted by toEleven
It read to me like he (tgold) meant uncomfortable in the same sense you meant it in your Black and White - Braking Markers thread. Ant's response to Timm's post just seemed non sequitur, given that Timm had quoted you.
I look forward to the next round in this thread. It seems like useful reading, and I appreciate free knowledge. |
Yes, Timm and I are meaning the same "uncomfortable" feeling. The difference between his post and mine, is a frame of reference. In my thread about breaking markers, you had a frame of reference of a 100% confident braking marker that was only moved by 1 bike length at a time. Timm just stated "uncomfortable" without a frame of reference in a thread about how to find the limit. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MOMENT....
After chatting with Ant and thinking about how it related to this thread, I can conclude that it's really easy to say ride uncomfortable when you have a frame of reference. An easy one that worked for Ant is following a coach at a pace that is greater than what he had ridden before. The coach... didn't take him beyond a skill jump that is too large (just like my braking skill thread). So, it worked well, Ant put his trust in the coach. The next step would be for Ant to ride uncomfortable without a tow from a coach. But.... he has no frame of reference to go by, so how does he tell if he is upping the pace too much or not? He has no frame of reference that his new pace is truly beyond his, the bike's or traction ability. Hence my problem with the blanket statement bit of advice, and it makes no difference if it is good or not. Ant is a good rider that knows how to recognize his limits very well, other riders.... well, let's just say that some riders take advice very literal to a fault. Now looking at it from Timm's point of view, there are tangible ways to gauge traction. Bars, seat, knee on tarmac, lean angle, sense of balance, ect... ect.. Now as a learning rider, some of the major traction indicators are missing or greatly exaggerated. Lean feels greater than experience riders, lack of traction feels greater than experienced riders, Ant feels little slides greater than more experienced riders. Why? Because those more experienced have more frames of reference and more experience with those frames of reference.
The big ones... (frames of reference)
Bars - you can feel what the front is doing
Seat - you can feel what the chassis is doing
Pegs - you can feel what the swingarm/rear is doing via the balls of your feet and even heels, if you have tidy feet
Knee - you know where the tarmac is because it just touched your knee
Head - you know how much the bike is leaned over (head bone is connected to your knee bone lol)
Now, as a learning rider... how much workable input are you really getting from the big ones? And I am not even including the small ones. ijs... And what if one or more of the big ones are missing or not working right? What if your not going fast enough to drag knee yet? Now your missing a huge input on lean angle vs where the ground is. What if your are unhappy with your rearsets or not riding on the balls of your feet? See what I mean? That is why I posted in another thread that finding the limits comes much, much later, after fundamental track skills and general traction assessment.
Since riders don't normally attend a school every track day, it's safe to assume that at some point the next time a rider hits the track, they will be on their own. Some riders might enlist the help of CR's/coaches but they may not (you should, that is what we are here for). So most track orgs that I have been exposed to, error on the safe side, and present the following; "All you have to do is practice/chase skills and the speed will come to you". Just like almost everyone says, "don't try to drag knee, get your skill up and it will happen all by itself."
Now for alternatives to 5 & 6.
Kart tracks and cheap go karts? Can you rent a kart for a few laps? Sensing lean angle is NOT the same as feeling for available traction.
Downhill Mtn biking, make sure you lock up the wheels a few times
Downhill biking on gravel for extra crazy fun.
Go to bike nights and make some friends. Many riders have dirt bikes, maybe a new friend will allow you to tool around on theirs. Just be willing to fix what you break.
You could always marry well.
Basically anything that gets your speed up has the chance of breaking traction.