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Old June 29th, 2023, 04:48 PM   #6
DannoXYZ
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Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Something went wrong.

First, pods do not provide more air than stock airbox. Factory airbox and filtre are not restrictive in way. It's exact same size as on my CBR600RR. Bike which has 4x more power and 4x more air-flow. Racers have been using this bike for over 35-yrs and have amassed HUGE knowledge-base of what does and doesn't work. Racers are cheating bastards who will do anything and everything to get advantage over rest of field. Fact that pods are allowed in rules, and not a single racer amongst millions use them shows they don't provide any benefit.

My sponsor Spears dyno-tuned my bike in various configurations:

- factory airbox w/factory filtre
- factory airbox + K&N,
- pods
- no pods at all for most flow possible

ALL of mods provided exactly same power-output, about +1.5hp over stock. Meaning factory jetting is still way, way too rich. Here's '08 with K&N filtre installed in factory airbox:



Exhaust is where power can really be freed up. Full Tyga exhaust along with K&N got me +24% more power than stock. To get proper AFR, we had to decrease carb jets by 2 full sizes! And it was still slightly rich in 12:1 range. Decided to leave it at that since going to most-powerful 13.5:1 won't really give that much more power and best to have some safety margin in case I get bad petrol out in middle of boonies somewhere on super-hot day.

Something went wrong with your carbs during this parts-swapping process.
Put it all back to stock, including air-box and it'll run like before. However I bet it won't because something's not right. Vacuum-leak, missing or upside-down needle-jets, left/right needles got swapped, etc.

You want to make only one change at time so you can easily back up and troubleshoot:

1. replace ONLY filtre with K&N in stock airbox, how's dyno chart look?
2. replace ONLY factory airbox with pods, how's dyno chart look?
3. replace only main jets one size up, how's dyno chart look?
4. replace only main jets one size down, how's dyno chart look?
5. replace only main jets two size up, how's dyno chart look?
6. replace only main jets two size down, how's dyno chart look?

You need to take methodical and systematic approach with gathering and analysing objective quantitative data. Dyno is only way to gather those numbers.

Note super-rich factory WOT mixtures (left). Plugs looked like this after 20-minute session on track. Plugs were actually black, flash lightened everything up.



Adding full-exhaust, DynoJet leaning needles, downsizing 2 main-jet sizes got me mixtures on right set of plugs. Along with +24% more power and top-speed increased from actual 97-mph to 110mph (GPS + calibrated TrailTech Vapor dash @ Thunderhill Raceway).

Note DynoJet needle (bottom) is fatter in high-end compared to stock in order to reduce super-rich WOT high-end mixtures. Also slightly slimmer in mid-range to fix lean-spot (6-7K-rpms in above chart).



What you need to do is look at numbers. I've highlighted important numbers in bold to show cause & effect relationships. Here's only ones you've gathered:

98 main jets = 100mph top-speed
112 main jets = 57mph top-speed

So what logical cause & effect conclusion can you deduce from these numbers ??? As in which configuration gives you higher top-speed? Another logical deduction is: Which configuration gives you more power???



Some related reading:

'08 Ninja 250: Racing On The Cheap - SportRider scroll down to Nuts & Bolts section
Dyno Testing - +22.5% more power on stock jetting! Lean only in mid-range and thinned needle to correct (BTW - RacerX got 123mph from Ninja 250)
Racing Order - Dyno testing - 32.3hp (+22%) with just the Tyga exhaust, snorkel removed and stock jetting.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 29th, 2023 at 06:28 PM.
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