Project Danger Zone

[acw10695]

Hey guys, this is the beginning of my build thread. My introduction was here:

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...77#post1161777

Updates so far:

Changed the oil and filter. I noticed some metal particles but not a huge amount.

Adjusted the valve clearances. All of them were very tight prior to adjustment.

New oil and properly clearanced valves did not fix the rattle/knock. Next on the list to check are the cam chain tensioner and the clutch cradle.

Based on my google fu, I am leaning towards the clutch cradle being the source of my noise based on the aluminum looking particles in my oil. From my research, it seems that the soft material on the clutch basket can wear away leaving metal on metal contact creating my noise and the metal particles.

While tearing down to adjust the valves, I noticed the previous owner had installed aftermarket air filters and deleted the airbox. I suspect this is the culprit of the low rev problem. A jet kit should fix this up.

Also, as of today my name is officially on the title!

I will try to post a video of the sound to see if anyone can identify it.

[acw10695]

Link to sound video:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[MrAtom]

Oh! I think I know this one!

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27..._the_clutch%3F

[Ghostt]

[Ghostt]

I strongly recommend getting the OEM airbox, pod filters are more problems than there worth. This is due to the type of carbs the Ninjette has, below is my write-up on the subject

I would highly recommend that you DO NOT REMOVE THE AIR BOX, the carburetors on the bike are CV type and need to box to function properly, buy a K&N that fits the OEM airbox

PreGen K&N KA-2586 Kawasaki High Performance Replacement Air Filter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FGI50G..._sp0SxbGTXHE2J

Long boring but important answer, CV carbs stands for "constant velocity". The function of the carbs is dependent on having a calm reservoir (airbox) from which to intake air at said constant velocity. Pods draw from the turbulent, unpredictable air swirling past them as you ride, which is anything but constant. Other carbs work fine with pods. CV's = no bueno, save yourself the headaches.

Now onto jetting, first you need to tune the idle mixture screws first, I recommend 3 full turns out from bottom as a good starting point, then fine tune them afterwards. As far as buying a jet kit, I personally don't have one on either my 250, or 500 ninjas. I did got up one size on my main jets, due to they are lean from the factory, and shimmed the main needles with a small washer.

[acw10695]

MrAtom,
That is the exact post that put me on to the clutch basket. Do you think it is worth going in to take a look, or just going ahead and replacing the part?

Ghostt,
I don't have the oem airbox and a quick search on google yielded no real aftermarket options. Should I dig deeper to find a used one or do you think something like this would work:

K&N R-0990 Norton Universal Rubber Air Filter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00062YHYM..._QkyUybBCJ72EX

I would definitely want to go up a jet size or two in either case, so would a jet kit still make economic sense? Looking at this one:

1987-2007 Kawasaki Ninja 250 EX250 EX250J EX250R Carburetor Carb Stage 1-7 Jet Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006QZEJV4..._opyUybK79MM8D

I still need to take the carbs off and give them a good cleaning, but that will have to wait until Monday.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by acw10695

Adjusted the valve clearances. All of them were very tight prior to adjustment.

I will try to post a video of the sound to see if anyone can identify it.

Because you said they all were very tight, I think you may not have adjusted them properly.

The noise sounds valve-related to me.

I would double check the clearances. Read through this section just to confirm your procedure - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_..._the_valves%3F

[acw10695]

I did use the correct procedure, but I used a different value (.203mm) for both intake and exhaust based on a youtube video. I will redo the adjustment with the correct feeler guages when I attack the carbs.

Thanks jkv45

[Triple Jim]

The noise definitely sounds like something that needs correcting. I don't know about it being a valve clearance problem though, unless that one somehow got about 1/8" of clearance.

[jkv45]

You betcha.

On the air filter - we have a K&N like the one you linked (single piece, 2 holes) and it was a pain to install IIRC. Getting both boots to slip on at the same time was difficult, and I think we ended-up putting a bevel on the openings to make it slip on easier. Single elements would be easier to install. I'm not the biggest fan of pods, but our Ninja runs well with them once the jetting is properly set.

When you clean the carbs, be careful and remove everything and clean the passages and openings. This section has some important info - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...n_the_carbs%3F

If you aren't confident or don't have the equipment or facility to do it right, contact ducatiman. They will be ultrasonic cleaned and properly adjusted when you receive them back, which can save you a lot of time and aggravation.

You can get the jetting right without a jet kit, but a kit usually gives you adjustable needles with a different taper, which makes fine-tuning the midrange easier. Shimming the stock needles is another way to adjust it. If you go with a kit, I would recommend Factory Pro over the others.

When carb tuning, think in terms of throttle position (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, WOT) instead of RPMs. Generally you want to get your jetting at WOT (Main Jet) correct first, then move down. I want to say we have 105 or 108 Main Jets in ours with pods. We are running ethanol-free, which provides a slightly richer mixture than E10.

[Triple Jim]

Going back in the thread, I see you had the knock before you adjusted the valves, so it's unlikely one had a huge clearance, then you adjusted it, and it still has a huge clearance.

If you could get a dial indicator on a piston top though the spark plug hole, you could rotate the crankshaft back and forth and see if there is excessive play in a rod bearing. That plug hole is deep though, so you'd obviously need a long extension on the dial indicator.

[acw10695]

The rockers were actually in contact with the cam lobes the entire cycle. I had to loosen all 8, but I agree that the valves are not the main source of the noise.

[acw10695]

Worked on the bike last night and a little today. I reset the valve clearances to the correct values and bottoned everything up to do the clutch basket test where you slip the clutch to see if the noise goes away. Turn the key and hit the start button and *clickclickclick*.

I guess all that cranking and no riding killed the battery. I will let this one sit on the battery tender for a couple hours and if that doesn't fix it, I will pick up a new one tomorrow.

[Alex]

How is it running now?

[acw10695]

Ran out of time to mess with the bike for now with finals coming up. Good news is that I graduate from college in a few weeks, and I already have a job lined up. When that comes through and I get settled in, I will continue working on my side projects. I will update you guys here when something changes with the bike.

[Snake]

Congratulations on your upcoming graduation from college and good like on your time projects. Taking your time and patience are the keys to doing it right.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by jkv45

You betcha.

On the air filter - we have a K&N like the one you linked (single piece, 2 holes) and it was a pain to install IIRC. Getting both boots to slip on at the same time was difficult, and I think we ended-up putting a bevel on the openings to make it slip on easier. Single elements would be easier to install. I'm not the biggest fan of pods, but our Ninja runs well with them once the jetting is properly set.

When you clean the carbs, be careful and remove everything and clean the passages and openings. This section has some important info - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...n_the_carbs%3F

If you aren't confident or don't have the equipment or facility to do it right, contact ducatiman. They will be ultrasonic cleaned and properly adjusted when you receive them back, which can save you a lot of time and aggravation.

You can get the jetting right without a jet kit, but a kit usually gives you adjustable needles with a different taper, which makes fine-tuning the midrange easier. Shimming the stock needles is another way to adjust it. If you go with a kit, I would recommend Factory Pro over the others.

When carb tuning, think in terms of throttle position (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, WOT) instead of RPMs. Generally you want to get your jetting at WOT (Main Jet) correct first, then move down. I want to say we have 105 or 108 Main Jets in ours with pods. We are running ethanol-free, which provides a slightly richer mixture than E10.

The K&N air filter you used may have been intended to be installed in the stock airbox. You cut off the stock foam filter support in the center of the airbox and install the K&N over the two protruding stubs inside the airbox.

I agree that you should start your rejetting project with the correct main jet but keep in mind that the main jet affects all the jetting from idle to full throttle.

I quit using K&N air filters back in the 70s. I had K&Ns on my Kaw 500 triple and while cleaning them one day held the filters up to the sunlight. Through two layers of the filtering material I could see pinholes of sunlight. I removed the K&Ns and installed UNI filters. I have not purchased a K&N since.

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

I quit using K&N air filters back in the 70s. I had K&Ns on my Kaw 500 triple and while cleaning them one day held the filters up to the sunlight. Through two layers of the filtering material I could see pinholes of sunlight. I removed the K&Ns and installed UNI filters. I have not purchased a K&N since.

I personally like UNI better as well, and have never purchased a K&N - they have come on used bikes I've purchased. I have UNI filters on all of our dirt bikes.

There is usually a penalty for increased flow - and it's decreased filtering.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by jkv45

I personally like UNI better as well, and have never purchased a K&N - they have come on used bikes I've purchased. I have UNI filters on all of our dirt bikes.

There is usually a penalty for increased flow - and it's decreased filtering.

There's a new freshly oiled UNI on my newly acquired 2007 right now.

[acw10695]

Hey guys, I'm back lol. I dug into the bike a little more and decided it wasn't worth it to do a full rebuild on the engine. I bought a running low miles engine for $500 on ebay and am taking the bike to a local guy to have it checked out and swapped. Hopefully my next post will be a ride report. *fingers crossed*

[Triple Jim]

Good luck Andrew. It's pretty common that a used engine is a better choice than a complete rebuild. It's hard to get the parts and labor for less than $500, that's for sure.

[acw10695]

Got the bike back this afternoon. Runs great! I rode around my yard for about an hour getting used to it, then up and down my street. I held myself back from anything further until I get some good riding gear, but I can already tell I love riding!

A few minor things I still need to attend to:
New chain
Brake adjustment/change
New signal lights
New Windscreen
and eventually new tires

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by acw10695

Got the bike back this afternoon. Runs great! I rode around my yard for about an hour getting used to it, then up and down my street. I held myself back from anything further until I get some good riding gear, but I can already tell I love riding!

A few minor things I still need to attend to:
New chain
Brake adjustment/change
New signal lights
New Windscreen
and eventually new tires

You don't give up easily do you? I'm proud of you. It's only early June, you've got a-lot of riding to do.

Cheers,

Bill

[acw10695]

Thanks Bill! I just bought a Joe Rocket Atomic 4.0 Jacket, Joe Rocket Eclipse Gloves, and a Fuel full face helmet to get me started. I am planning on riding in my steel toe work boots for the time being until I can find some riding boots that fit me well.

I cleaned, tightened, and lubed my chain today so hopefully I can put off buying a new chain for a little while.

Still need to check out the front brake. Most likely replacing the whole deal just because.

Things are coming along well guys!