Debugging the CDI problem

[fumbles]

Edit: Sorry, this was posted a little too soon. I should have waited until I could measure with better instruments. Ignore this thread.

[DaBlue1]

I will try to put this a simply as possible.
If the CDI that you have seems to work fine go with it. It's not worth your time trying to figure out the internals.

The tach is a very rudimentary instrument. It can flutter a tiny bit, but so can the engine idle. If the tach you have seems a bit jumpy or all over the place (more than 1k off replace it or get a digital dash. They tend to be more accurate. Also a jumpy tach can be the sign of something else wrong in your electrical system. Check the wiki for troubleshooting tips.

There really are no schematics provided by Kawasaki as to the internal workings of the IC Ignitor. However there is some troubleshooting info in the Service Manual. That would be a good place to start of you still want to try and fix it. Keep in mind that Kawasaki does not make the IC ignitor. It is made by another company who also probably makes the same one to fit another bike. Find out who makes it, contact them and see of they are willing to give you any insight or information about the internal workings of it, since you have none yourself at this time.

I read something on another forum where someone was going to try and remap the IC igintor for a EFI Ninja 250, but it seems there were no further details that came from it. There are some CDIs that have been reprogrammed, but the one from the 250 is not among them. I had the IC ignitor issue when I first got my bike. Once the tach and Ic ignitor was replaced, I've had no problem since.

If you are still not satisfied with the performance of the stock IC ignitor, the BRT i-DTIS is what many have used as a replacement with good success. It come in a programmable and non programmable model. This way you can stop buying multiple faulty IC ignitors.
You will also have a quality piece of equipment as a back up in case you FUBAR the other ones conducting your science experiments.

Obviously you must have 15/45 gearing since you state that the RPM readout is at the proper level (~7K @ 60mph in 6th gear). You also state that there is a high frequency buzz. That pretty much normal whether you choose to believe it or not. What else have you done to try and reduce the engine hwy buzz? Since you mentioned that you've done some mods, what mods have you done that may have helped enhance or increase the buzz?

Here are a few things that I know of that helped to reduce the buzz on my bike. I kept the stock exhaust. I got different bar ends, use 15/41 gearing to reduce the rpm speed, run ethanol free 87 octane gas (when I can get it), I run 140/70/17 and 120/70/17 tires, Iridium plugs, and synthetic oil and the biggest one was something I did recently. I have a high flow drop in filter that has done wonders for engine smoothness. Other little stuff like making sure the chain is lubed and properly adjusted, replaced most rubber fasteners,and make sure all bolts and screws are properly secured and torqued.

Kudos for you in taking the time to try to find a solution to the IC Ignitor problem. However you may find the answer hard to find.

Good Luck

[fumbles]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

You also state that there is a high frequency buzz. That pretty much normal whether you choose to believe it or not. What else have you done to try and reduce the engine hwy buzz? Since you mentioned that you've done some mods, what mods have you done that may have helped enhance or increase the buzz?

By mods, I meant splicing in the resistor. The bike is completely stock except for the resistor. I mentioned the buzzing because the "good" CDI had less. I cannot verify it because I have not tested with the good CDI since putting the bike back together.

Thanks for the links.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by fumbles

....By mods, I meant splicing in the resistor. The bike is completely stock except for the resistor. I mentioned the buzzing because the "good" CDI had less.

Most electronics that either control a switch or voltage will have an electronic buzz/hum to it. It can intensify depending on the frequency and oscillating of the current being used or controlled. If that is what you are basing your science on, you may be chasing a phantom. Rubber insulators, case integrity, proper connection, temperature and other factors can play a role in how the IC ignitor operates and it may all be within a margin of error based on design. You'll probably never know.

[LNasty]

I am having the CDI issue as well on my 2012. Has been one month and I am still waiting for the damn tach to get to the dealer from Kawasaki. They said that parts straight from Japan like this can take up to 180 days. Guess they have to kill some whales on the way over here....anyways once that finally shows up, and it doesn't fix my problem like I already know it won't, I will have to wait another 3 months for a new CDI to be shipped. I just hope that all of this waiting will pay off in long run and will have a bike that doesn't run 9k rpm's @ 60mph.

[Soujyu]

Originally Posted by LNasty

I am having the CDI issue as well on my 2012. Has been one month and I am still waiting for the damn tach to get to the dealer from Kawasaki. They said that parts straight from Japan like this can take up to 180 days. Guess they have to kill some whales on the way over here....anyways once that finally shows up, and it doesn't fix my problem like I already know it won't, I will have to wait another 3 months for a new CDI to be shipped. I just hope that all of this waiting will pay off in long run and will have a bike that doesn't run 9k rpm's @ 60mph.

It's not the tach.

Do what I do; get used CDIs off of eBay, and keep going through them until you find one that works. (Took two CDIs.)

[LNasty]

Originally Posted by Soujyu

It's not the tach.

Do what I do; get used CDIs off of eBay, and keep going through them until you find one that works. (Took two CDIs.)

I totally would, but since I am having the work done for free due to warranty I am going to have to wait

[LNasty]

So I have been waiting for 2 1/2 months now for a tach to come into the dealer for warranty repair. Tried calling Kawasaki for past 2 weeks about the delay in the part coming and all I get when I call is "our service reps are currently in training so that they can better assist you..." WTF, I am so completely fed up with Kawasaki and this bike. Wish I didn't have a loan on it or I would sell it right now. Don't know what else to do. Not sure if they would let me trade it in for the new 2013 even though I still owe a Sh*t ton on this 2012. Anyone have any advise?

[Alex]

Sounds frustrating, but I'm still not clear what exactly the problem is with your bike. It's not actually running 9k rpms at 60 MPH. The engine speed is directly and necessarily linked directly to the gearing and how fast the rear wheel is turning. What is being displayed on either the speedometer or tach has nothing to do with affecting the performance of the bike. It does sound like the tach is reading high. The first fix is to replace the tach, the second is to replace the CDI. But what other symptoms is your bike having that are causing you such frustration? Is it still running fine? Fuel mileage OK? Performance OK?

[LNasty]

Originally Posted by Alex

Sounds frustrating, but I'm still not clear what exactly the problem is with your bike. It's not actually running 9k rpms at 60 MPH. The engine speed is directly and necessarily linked directly to the gearing and how fast the rear wheel is turning. What is being displayed on either the speedometer or tach has nothing to do with affecting the performance of the bike. It does sound like the tach is reading high. The first fix is to replace the tach, the second is to replace the CDI. But what other symptoms is your bike having that are causing you such frustration? Is it still running fine? Fuel mileage OK? Performance OK?

I have only been averaging around 45 MPG, but I do ride primarily Interstate.
I wish I knew what RPM it was actually running at, but the tach is showing 9k @ 60 mph, 10.5k @ 70 and 12k at 80 mph. When it was cool out earlier in the year I was at about 7800 rpm @ 60 mph, about 15 min in ride would go up to 9k @ 60 mph. I have no idea if I am actually running at these high RPM's or if the tach is just showing that. Just worried that the engine is straining harder than it should. The CDI seems to be malfunctioning when hot. Dealer told me that tach is back ordered.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by LNasty

I have no idea if I am actually running at these high RPM's or if the tach is just showing that. Just worried that the engine is straining harder than it should.

Again, you are not running at higher revs than normal. It's impossible. The tach is reading high. The only thing that changes the revs the motor is actually running at a certain road speed is the gearing.

[LNasty]

Originally Posted by Alex

Again, you are not running at higher revs than normal. It's impossible. The tach is reading high. The only thing that changes the revs the motor is actually running at a certain road speed is the gearing.

So even though it is showing that I am almost at redline 13k going 80, I am actually at normal rpm's? If this is true that make me feel a little better. The CDI doesn't have any control of the bikes RPM's?

[Alex]

Right. Think it through. The rear wheel is turning a certain speed. It is directly connected to the engine through the transmission/clutch. If the wheel is turning faster, the engine must be turning faster. And vice versa. If the wheel isn't turning any faster, the engine cannot be turning any faster. For a given road speed, the engine is turning a given amount of revs.

[LNasty]

AHHHHHHHHH, Well That makes me feel better that I am still running at normal RPM's, might be getting crappy gas mileage but I can deal with that for now. obviously other's are having the same issue if the tach's are back ordered right now. Thank You for Clarifying this for me

[Alex]

(just make sure that you're actually in 6th gear)

[LNasty]

Originally Posted by Alex

(just make sure that you're actually in 6th gear)

I still keep trying to shift into the ghost 7th gear

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Alex

Right. Think it through. The rear wheel is turning a certain speed. It is directly connected to the engine through the transmission/clutch. If the wheel is turning faster, the engine must be turning faster. And vice versa. If the wheel isn't turning any faster, the engine cannot be turning any faster. For a given road speed, the engine is turning a given amount of revs.

clutch slip?

[LNasty]

Originally Posted by alex.s

clutch slip?

No, Dealer checked out my clutch said it is all good. They feel it is the tach and or the CDI, Prob is that It has been 2 1/2 months and tach still is not in.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by alex.s

clutch slip?

Right, but that would never be consistent. If the clutch were slipping, constant throttle would cause the motor to continue to rev higher, not just register a higher RPM and stay there.