First lowside

[jman511115]

Well, it happened. Was taking a wide right hand turn at about 35, leaned a bit too far, and lost the rear wheel. I remember distinctly being in midair off the bike in an almost standing up position and thinking "I'm not moving that fast, I got this." Came down with one foot, couldn't catch myself, and rolled a few times. Got dinged on my knee, a scrape on my elbow, (through the jacket) and bruises in both locations. I was wearing my helmet, leather/knuckled gloves, cortech mesh jacket, jeans, and non riding boots that covered the ankle. Bent a bar, lost the right side mirror and peg, a couple small scuffs on the fairings, and ground off half of a frame slider. :-p

Lessons learned- apply throttle a bit through the turn, and shift body weight instead of just leaning over.

[cuz]

Happens to the best of us.

Glad your ok =)

[greenaero]

I'm glad you and your bike are doing well. Learn from this and ride safe.
best wishes, GA

[newninja123]

best wishes mate!

[emoyer]

Originally Posted by jman511115

Well, it happened. Was taking a wide right hand turn at about 35, leaned a bit too far, and lost the rear wheel. I remember distinctly being in midair off the bike in an almost standing up position and thinking "I'm not moving that fast, I got this." Came down with one foot, couldn't catch myself, and rolled a few times. Got dinged on my knee, a scrape on my elbow, (through the jacket) and bruises in both locations. I was wearing my helmet, leather/knuckled gloves, cortech mesh jacket, jeans, and non riding boots that covered the ankle. Bent a bar, lost the right side mirror and peg, a couple small scuffs on the fairings, and ground off half of a frame slider. :-p

Lessons learned- apply throttle a bit through the turn, and shift body weight instead of just leaning over.

Hi. if you dont mind id like a few more details so i can understand this better. i realize it probably happened fast & you might not recall everything.

the back wheel slid out before you were dragging pegs? was there gravel or something? what was the road surface like? was this on the stock tires? did you use the brakes at all?

& i understand that getting on the throttle thru the turn is what we are supposed to do but why is it that this would have kept the rear tire from breaking loose?

i am a total beginner so i apologize if my questions are dumb.

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by emoyer

Hi. if you dont mind id like a few more details so i can understand this better. i realize it probably happened fast & you might not recall everything.

the back wheel slid out before you were dragging pegs? was there gravel or something? what was the road surface like? was this on the stock tires? did you use the brakes at all?

& i understand that getting on the throttle thru the turn is what we are supposed to do but why is it that this would have kept the rear tire from breaking loose?

i am a total beginner so i apologize if my questions are dumb.

From what I remember from the MSF course, applying throttle stabilizes the bikes suspension and keeps power to the rear wheel thus keeping that downward force on the rear wheel and maintaining traction. If you're not throttling through or even brake while leaned over, the weight transfers from the rear to the front and your rear wheel isn't being pushed to the road.

Kinda like how it's easy to lock up the rear wheel when you apply too much front brake. Weight shifts to the front and your rear wheel is lightened.

This is all just what I remember from MSF and how it feels when I'm riding. Any veteran riders, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by jman511115

.......Lessons learned- apply throttle a bit through the turn, and shift body weight instead of just leaning over.

Good thing that you are OK, John

Since the front tire stayed planted, not applying throttle did not make the rear skid, IMHO.

The crack-open-throttle technique liberates the front tire from excessive load, so it is not the first one to skid if pushed to the limit in a turn.
Too much of that will make the rear tire skid.

I believe that your accident was caused by a combination of extreme lean angle (too much entry speed), street bumps, middle-turn steering inputs or slippery conditions.

At extreme lean angles the suspension can't wok properly.
The hang-off technique improves the performance of the suspension because it works closer to a vertical position.

From A twist of the wrist II:

"At the point where the correct transfer of weight is achieved by the rider (10 to 20 percent rearward) by using the throttle, any big changes in that weight distribution reduce available traction. Once the bike is fully leaned into a turn, changes in tire load, either evenly (both wheels, most easily done in a crested road situation) or alternately (front to back, back to front, from throttle on/throttle off) must then either underweight or overweight the ideal load for that particular tire/bike combination."

[Malicious Logic]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Good thing that you are OK, John

Since the front tire stayed planted, not applying throttle did not make the rear skid, IMHO.

The crack-open-throttle technique liberates the front tire from excessive load, so it is not the first one to skid if pushed to the limit in a turn.
Too much of that will make the rear tire skid.

I believe that your accident was caused by a combination of extreme lean angle (too much entry speed), street bumps, middle-turn steering inputs or slippery conditions.

At extreme lean angles the suspension can't wok properly.
The hang-off technique improves the performance of the suspension because it works closer to a vertical position.

From A twist of the wrist II:

"At the point where the correct transfer of weight is achieved by the rider (10 to 20 percent rearward) by using the throttle, any big changes in that weight distribution reduce available traction. Once the bike is fully leaned into a turn, changes in tire load, either evenly (both wheels, most easily done in a crested road situation) or alternately (front to back, back to front, from throttle on/throttle off) must then either underweight or overweight the ideal load for that particular tire/bike combination."

Can you explain more? Not sure what this crack-open-throttle technique is since I've never heard of it. I've just been taught that you should set entry speed so that you can throttle through the turn. You're saying that if he had throttled through the turn, he would have still lost the rear?

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

Can you explain more? Not sure what this crack-open-throttle technique is since I've never heard of it. I've just been taught that you should set entry speed so that you can throttle through the turn. You're saying that if he had throttled through the turn, he would have still lost the rear?

sliding the rear wheel around is not a big deal. it happens a lot if you are pushing, especially on bigger bikes. the 250 doesn't have much power and pinning the throttle even in second or first doesn't have enough power to spin up the rear tire under clean load. riding over a low traction area with a pinned throttle and having the rear spin up in a turn is not that big of a deal so long as everything stays smooth. as you exit the low traction area the rear will start to grab. being on the gas will make this transition smoother. losing the front is a lot harder to deal with, but keep in mind the biggest thing holding your bike up is the rear wheel spinning.

the point he was trying to make is that the rear wheel has a bigger contact patch because its meant to take the load of the bike in a turn. being on the gas through the turn by cracking on the throttle and steadily rolling on to wide open throttle will load the rear tire and put the weight of the bike where it should be.

[Stingray1000]

Sucks bro, Glad you're fine. Lessons learned.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Malicious Logic

Can you explain more? Not sure what this crack-open-throttle technique is since I've never heard of it. I've just been taught that you should set entry speed so that you can throttle through the turn. You're saying that if he had throttled through the turn, he would have still lost the rear?

Yes, I was referring to cracking open the throttle as soon as possible during a turn.

The throttle control is a powerful tool to move the weight of the bike back and forth between both wheels.
Brakes can also do it, but only towards the front.

As explained in Twist of the Wrist 2, Keith Code's book, motorcycles have a 50%-50% distribution of weight between front and rear tires while either in repose or moving at constant speed.

The rear tire and suspension of any modern sport bike are designed to carry more weight than the front tire and suspension while leaned.

The idea is to use the throttle to push 60% of the weight onto the rear, leaving the front loaded with 40% of the total weight of the bike plus rider.

That is achieved with an increment of speed of about 3 mph per each second during the turn (0.1 g).

The above is true; what I was saying was just my opinion, so it may be wrong.

[Countersteer]

Originally Posted by jman511115

Well, it happened. Was taking a wide right hand turn at about 35, leaned a bit too far, and lost the rear wheel. I remember distinctly being in midair off the bike in an almost standing up position and thinking "I'm not moving that fast, I got this." Came down with one foot, couldn't catch myself, and rolled a few times. Got dinged on my knee, a scrape on my elbow, (through the jacket) and bruises in both locations. I was wearing my helmet, leather/knuckled gloves, cortech mesh jacket, jeans, and non riding boots that covered the ankle. Bent a bar, lost the right side mirror and peg, a couple small scuffs on the fairings, and ground off half of a frame slider. :-p

Lessons learned- apply throttle a bit through the turn, and shift body weight instead of just leaning over.

Now isn't this refreshing! No video from 3 angles. No "It was unavoidable" self justification blah blah blah, no hyper detailed discussion of physics. Just a simple "I lost the back wheel, and here is what I learned".

Perfect, John. Bravo!

Ride safe and keep learning. I learned a ton from a few low sides, and oh, if I could've just learned about high-sides from a book, that would have been way better!