Question, what is the right sized living quarters?

[Apex]

In the service, I literally lived out of a locker. It was about the size of a top and bottom high school locker setup. Then I had a book or two on my bunk with a wind up clock. I also had a sea bag stashed in the corner of the sleeping quarters with my civilian clothes/shoes/socks/spare books/etc.

Now, I had that, a minimalist extreme, and I did just fine. Now I have the complete opposite. A 2900 square-foot home, 4 bicycles, all my instruments, movies, CD's, etc...and I honestly think it is too much.

I do believe, for me alone, I would be fine in a 100-400 square foot place (detached garage). My wife on the other hand, she can't imagine living in such a small place. To me...less to clean. To her...cramped quarters.

I just don't see the need for a huge home with a huge mortgage, big bills, big repair bills, and tons of space/stuff to clean. BLAH. I told her, she gets this house now, I get mine later. I'm not going to want to clean a place that is this big when I'm in my 50's. No sir. I want something smaller.

However, size is an issue. I think it would be quite difficult to build a place that is under a certain size. You see the builders and banks got together with the gov't to establish a minimum house size. So you can't just go buy some land and build a home on it, because it has to meet "code".

Screw that, I'm sure I could have a court find it unconstitutional to regulate home sizes. If someone can live in an apartment in NYC that is under 100 square feet, I should dang well be able to live in a 500-750 square foot home.

Meh, that whole issue is for a later time.

So what do you feel the size would be for your ideal place?

[Daks]

It really depends on what time of my life it is. When I end up having kids, eventually 3-4 bedroom house with a yard. If I'm just married/moved in with someone, a one or two bedroom would be fine but I LOVE interior decorating. Painting, building, customizing, all of it. That's the real reason I want to own a house. You can make it look ****in awesome.
When I'm retired/old and still married, a small, modest 1 bedroom. Like you said...I don't want to clean or heat more than I need.

Now, though, as someone living single, I could be fine in a studio apartment. I need room to work on various art projects. I'd love a garage to work on my bike and car. Unfortunately, I can't afford my own apartment, so I basically live in a 9x10 room. It's cramped if my projects are all out.

[antiant]

These might be of interest to you:

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_house_movement
2. http://tinyhouseblog.com
3. http://www.simplesolarhomesteading.com/
4. http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/
5. http://www.amazon.com/Little-House-S...g+planet+susan
6.

Link to original page on YouTube.

I have slews of information on this particular subject and have done a lot of research because it is an interest of mine and it's something I plan on doing. In any event, it is my personal belief that too many people live in homes where they do not utilize space efficiently. So what happens? They end up paying for space they don't need or occupy 95% of the time and they pay for it via a high mortgage, heating and cooling costs, etc. As for building codes, you can get away with things if you don't get caught, people do it all the time and it also depends on where you live. Some places have a strict building code, while other places do not. Tom Meyers who is a building code regulator, is concerned with the effects of regulation that building codes have when it comes to sustainable structures and smaller homes. You can find more information on him and his efforts here: http://sustainablebuildingcodes.blogspot.com/. Oh and for my ideal place, I've thought about anywhere from 600 to 800 sq. feet give or take, but not going over 1,000.

[249cc]

Ideally, I've wanted to live in something like this:



Enough room for a shower, toilet, bed, and "living room" (I'd just store and work on my bike inside of this thing). I noticed I didn't need much as far as living space when I started coming home later and later, to the point that I just used my place for sleeping and not much else.

Would be nice to live in the desert with one of these things. I'm allergic to grass :\

[Alienjoe]

I own a 800 sq foot home with an open concept living area. My 2 bedrooms are closed off of course! From my kitchen, I can see every room in my home. I also have a 200 sq foot sunroom and a walk out basement. I think I have plenty of space but not so much that the house is unmanageable.

My wife wants a bigger house and I want a garage so well see!

[Apex]

@antiant -I have read into this as well, several of those links I already I have bookmarked.


I spend a lot of time at home, but honestly, I spend my time in the living room, kitchen, and wherever my computer is. I only sleep in the bedroom, which I why I wonder why people even need one. It really comes down to knowing what you need.

People need the basics: food, water, shelter, and heat/fire. So put the roof over your head, have a fridge and pressurized water, you are pretty much there. All these extra rooms are just things you spend money on trying to "fill them up" where they don't look empty.

Hmm, sounds like a scam to me. A way to get us to spend $$$. Even Jay from Tumbleweed states that it was the banks and the housing market that established the minimum size house. They wanted more money. Greed.

So they forced everyone to spend more. Yeah, the next house will be sub 1000sq-ft. I see no need for anything larger. The larger the house the more you spend. A large roof, tons of insulation, two HVAC units, lights for the whole place, etc. Just too dang much. Our old house was 1200sq-ft, only cost us $50 in electricity during the summer. THE SUMMER! IN TEXAS! Now we spend easily $200 during the same time of year.

Something ain't right here. A 4 bedroom house with a loft. The only time I go into the loft is to play video games or hop on the desktop computer, other than that, it isn't used. I use two rooms in the house. The office serves as my "sleep during the day room" (since I work nights, and it is quite dark in there), and then the normal bedroom if I sleep during the night. I could pretty much make my bedroom 10' by 4' and be totally happy, with a small walk-in closet. I view a bedroom as nothing more than a place to sleep and unwind. I don't need it to be the size of a 1800's house in order to be comfortable. Honestly, the smaller quarters make me feel more comfortable than large open spaces. Plus, it is easier to clean.

Look at this video, this is my point exactly. We could build smaller, leave less of a footprint, save money and utilize our space so much better with just a little creativity.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Apex]

Oh, and something like this would be PERFECT. We have it all wrong in the states. Bigger isn't better....

Link to original page on YouTube.

Though, honestly, I would like to have enough space for a dryer.

[antiant]

@Apex - Agreed on something is wrong here. There are a lot of things that current social norms and or trends dictate as the "way things should be" and I have a huge problem with that, especially when it doesn't make logical sense. What is even more interesting to me is that people don't even question this, they say, "Well, that's the way it is...." and go on their merry little way. Really, to each their own, but who really wants to pay a $200k+ mortgage for the next 30+ years (that's crazy to me) and why do we as people accept this? If you are single with a single income, it's damn near impossible to buy a home and if you can, it's usually in an undesired location, etc. It takes two incomes in order to afford homes these days and so you have two people working for their home, their home is their pimp and they're the beeotches, to put it bluntly. I think a lot of energy, time and life is stolen with this kind of trend and I refuse to be apart of that, hence the constant research for different alternatives. Then you have people who are still paying off their college debt along with their mortgage (talk about suicide to me). I've never been a fan of debt from an early age, so I guess I'm lucky that I haven't fallen victim to it because it seriously limits your freedom.

On another note, those videos that you posted and the many videos out there, where people are doing things differently is inspiring because it shows me visually, that it can be done, people are doing it and they have no mortgage as they are living proof. Having no mortgage is a very liberating concept, imagine what you could do with that income and newly found freedom. If you don't have a mortgage, then you are not subjected to the 9-5 "work work work" ethos, you have more flexibility because you don't have to work as hard, thus freeing up your time to do things you really enjoy, etc.

[249cc]

Originally Posted by Apex

Oh, and something like this would be PERFECT. We have it all wrong in the states. Bigger isn't better....

Link to original page on YouTube.

Though, honestly, I would like to have enough space for a dryer.

Am I the only one thinking, "My god, she is sooo beautiful" the whole time?

[Apex]

Indeed. Before I met my wife, I planned on purchasing 10+ acres of land in the country, and build a small house out there. It was going to be small, but 2 stories. I think in total, it was about 1000sq-ft. In the country, I doubt they would have cared what I built out there, as long as it was done correctly. I was going to pay for it all with cash, and do much of the building myself, getting an inspector out there as I went to verify all was well. I knew a few architects at the time as well, so I'm sure they would have lead me the right way.

Anyway, I ended up meeting a lady I later would be calling my wife, and we lived together in her house. Her room mate left just earlier, so it seemed right. Things have been easy since.

I could easily life comfortably out of our loft (which is my room until we have a kid). I could toss in a shower, a sink big enough to wash dishes in, install a small washer (dryer could be optional), a bed, computer, gas 2-burner stove, toaster oven, mini fridge, and all the other junk quite easily. Plus, it would be small enough that a simple window unit could serve as the AC unit and a tiny woodstove (or alternative) could serve as a heater. Even natural gas with gas logs, if done right, could easily heat the space. I think the loft is like 18x24 or something like that. Easily enough space! My wife likes living large right now; it is her dream, so I'll let her live it.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by 249cc

Am I the only one thinking, "My god, she is sooo beautiful" the whole time?

Hard to tell with the 240 quality, but she seems cute.

[Apex]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Apex]

Oh, and if you haven't seen this one, it is pretty cool....

Link to original page on YouTube.

[ChaoSS]

Sure, you can cut down, but why? To eliminate your mortgage? Yeah, that's nice, but you can't take money with you when you die, might as well use it.

My house is too small for what I would like. You get 4 kids, you need bedrooms, you need space for the kids to play. You need space for the parents to get away from the kids as well. I hate not having a garage for my tools, or a place to work on the truck and the bike. I'd like to have room to put some equipment, like a treadmill or an exercise bike, a weight set, etc.

It's all about your lifestyle, if you have more house than you need then sure, downsize, but I don't see the point in downsizing for it's own sake, the minimalism that drives people to live in cramped quarters.

[Apex]

I remember, once upon a time, that as a kid, the backyard and the driveway were mighty fine places to play. I didn't need a large house to be happy as a kid. Parents always say "the kids need their space" when they want to upgrade a house. It isn't the kid that is unhappy, 9 times out of 10 it is the parents looking for an excuse to buy bigger.

Kids are creative, have a huge imagination, and can be easily entertained. I remember what it was like to be a kid. My tiny, and I mean TINY room housed me and my younger brother. We did fine. My older brother had his own room that was the same size, and my sister had her own. Could I have been just as happy rooming with my little bro and my sister? You bet. My play area was as little or as big as I felt like making it. If the livingroom was off limits, then I played in my bedroom. Often sharing the floorspace with my younger brother.

The thing is that people think they need more than they really do. Think of cars. Why buy a $16,000 Ford Fiesta, when you double your money, you get more luxuries, more refinement, better performance, and a better looking car? So why not get a 3-series BMW? Oh, and for a little extra, you could get even more performance from the TT-I6. Might as well upgrade again. Do you really need a BMW 335? No. Could a small car like a Smart car, a Scion xA, a Fiesta, a VW Golf, or a similar car suit your needs just fine? Of course.

People have told me, when you have kids, you will want a van...you need a van. Umm no not really. We grew up in a dinky Toyota Corolla (if I remember correctly, an E70 model) with no A/C. We all managed just fine in that. Sure things were tight with my mom and 3-kids (4th wasn't around then), but it worked. You made things work.

The problem is people think they need this or that, and they really don't. Society and businesses drive home that thought process, and people buy into it. And having the mindset of you can't take your money with you...sure, that is right. But you CAN leave it for you kids. You can also take more vacations, create more memories, have the money on hand to pay for everything in cash. Credit...that is a joke beyond jokes. I racked up over $10,000 before I realized what a budget was. I paid it off and I have never had more than $2,000 on a card (due to a needed purchase because something broke or needed repairing). It was paid off within two months usually. I want to ditch my credit cards but my wife won't let me...not yet at least. It is nice to have a buffer just in case, I'll give you that.

My problem is people think they need these huge bedrooms, closets, living spaces, kitchens, etc, and they DO NOT need them, they want them. Need is used so freely in place of want. Sure my last house's kitchen was small, but did it work? Yes, quite well in fact. We just didn't want to get rid of the stuff we didn't use, so it seemed really small. That is what a lot of the larger homes come down to, desire for more stuff. You acquire more stuff and you need a bigger pad to store that stuff. George Carlin spoke about that.

Space for parents to get away from the kids. Hmmm...interesting. I could simply call a babysitter (whether my parents, or my wife's mom, or a relative) and head out for a couple of hours. Besides, I'm not saying you need to live in a loft style apartment. No, you can have rooms, just downsize them a bit. You don't need a 20'x20' room to hold a bed and dresser. If you have that much furniture, then you really have way too much IMHO.

Also, not having a garage is not really a focus of this topic. However, garages are awesome. You keep your car out of the sunlight, shade it from bad weather, and have a place for tools, repairs and building things for the house or the car. I feel it is a highly desirable item and is quite versatile. Could you be fine with not having one and just having a shed instead? Sure, but they are actually insanely cheap when it comes to costs compared to a house. You can erect a garage far cheaper than a house, so it is worthwhile to have one (if space isn't at a premium).

Also, I remember having Christmas as a child. I got maybe 3 awesome presents and a couple of smaller ones. That was it. And boy, those few presents meant the world to me. Fast forward to a couple of years ago. My mother-in-law went overboard with the gifts for all my nieces. Add that to the gifts that the kids parents got for them, and they were overflowing. When the kid looks at you and says "Can I stop opening presents? I want to play", you really have gone too far. Kids don't need a ton of stuff to feel happy. The reason why people get that way is because others push it on them. If you got only one present a year, you'd treasure it. If you get 20+ presents, all nice and costly, then you will think all is easily attainable and you don't care for it as much. You don't have that one gift that is awesome and you take care of it very well. I JUST threw out an old Sony Walkman tape player that I had since I was in 8th grade. That is how much that thing meant to me. I took great care of it and it lasted over 15 years. I even just got rid of my Discman that I remember getting that Christmas just before I got my car. It still worked great, just wouldn't hold a disc well (a retainer that holds the disc broke).

My point...you own the stuff, the stuff doesn't own you. Yet most of society thinks otherwise. Now if that stuff is truly what brings you happiness, then go for it. I'm not saying you are wrong for owning a big house, a lot of stuff, or a lot of furniture...etc. This is simply my opinion on the subject.

You have to admit, having $30-70/month electrical bills and zero mortgage would be awesome. Then you could enjoy your life, not be a slave to the sociological pressures of "needing" this or that.

Small spaces means you tend to think about purchases more. You don't tend to impulse buy as much because you stop and think "Ok, if I get this...where will it go?" It really cuts down on needless spending.

[Bigballsofpaint]

I cant say i agree with everything here, i had a loft bed when i lived with my parents to make more space in my room, and man was it lame climbing a ladder to go to bed every night. I feel the same with having to unfold my bed etc like in those videos. But i do agree peoples wants are much greater than the need. I just bought my first house, 1050 square feet on a nice acre and a half. 1 car garage but its under the house so i can fit the bikes on the side as well as a car. My house is TOO BIG for me and my girlfriend, the upstairs is unused, but in the future if were to have kids then i have 2 bedrooms upstairs, which is a good thing. I plan on making them a little bigger by dormering the rear and adding a bathroom so there is a bath upstairs. More of a luxury sure, but nice to have.

My bedroom is on the first floor, and i would LOVE to make an addition to the house and put another 1 car garage under, and a master bedroom with a bath above. That is my ideal house right now, maybe 1300-1400 square feet. I dont understand why people need 2,000 + houses, or even how they afford them. During the winter i actually pay about 60 a month in electric @Apex, the summer with the dehumidifier and 2 window units (one for the main floor, one in the bedroom) its a little more, maybe 120 a month. Which i dont think is bad at all. I would love zero mortgage, but i dont see that happening. As long as i can pay all my bills though and not have to kill myself doing it, im very happy. I still have money for my toys and with my land im actually able to hunt, target shoot, and i built a paintball field. No complaints here, Id rather land than the house, which is why i bought my house now.

[Apex]

I like the simplicity of his layout. I hope to apply some of his ideas in my loft (game room). The stair/book shelf idea is great. I find that if I pay more attention, I find ideas all over the place.

I may adopt his storage solution to work as an entertainment center. I'm talking about the clean panels used to house his remotes and receiver. If I could close everything in, I can simply prop it open only when I use it, otherwise just close it up to keep dust from taking over the electronics.

I like it. A nice furniture grade plywood, with some shellac, hinges and props to hold the panels open, and I'll be in business!

Link to original page on YouTube.

I also hope to close in some of my closet. I don't wear formal items all that often, so to be able to have a hutch style built-in inside my closet would be nice. That way the less frequently used items can be stored and free of dust/cat hair. It would work great for formals and my jackets. I have the space to do it, might as well use it. My wife likes the clean look, so if I could enclose some of the shelving, it would clean up the space as well.

[mustang5.0]

my wife and i, and our 2 cats lived in a 475 sq ft studio...it sucked but now we have nice apartment with loft... next move might be back to ny or a house with a heated pool here