November 3rd, 2010, 02:59 AM | #1 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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Ninja Race Prep
Hey all, I'm aiming to compete in the 2011 AFM ninja 250 production/superbike series here on the west coast, and lookin forward to getting my ass handed to me by way more talented riders! Definitely gonna be fun.
Anyways, I just wanted to start a thread for some input, if you see things goin wrong, or going right, I'd like to hear about it. Also wanted to provide some useful info for a couple projects I haven't really seen addressed on here yet. I started with safety wiring most parts of my bike, it hasn't been completed yet though. Started on the front end, moving back. Safety wired the brake banjo bolts at the M/C and caliper, brake mounting bolts, and front axle bolt (theres a cotter pin on the nut side). Drilling all the holes with a #55 drill bit isnt actually all that hard, you just have to be careful, and make sure to buy about 10 of them as you're sure to break a few! Safety wire pliers are about $7 at harbor freight, and a spool of 0.025" wire is about $3, so with a little patience, you can do this yourself. More pics to come later when I finish wiring up all the stuff in the engine and rear axle. I ran outta time on that and helped TQ aka Nope install gsxr600 rear shocks on our bikes, which turns out to be pretty easy. Need: 2006-2009 gsxr600 rear shock (9.4kg/mm spring rate, 320mm long) 12mm drill to drill out top and bottom shock mounts on the gsxr shock Longer 12mm bolts for dogbones Longer 12mm bolt for lower shock mount 4x spacers (or washers) for dogbones to clear spring Before: Support the rear wheel when you take out the shock (makes it easier to put back in). Grind down the rocker and the metal bushing to fit inside the lower shock mount. Cut off the bottom of the plastic spray pan at the step, making sure to leave the two squish nuts on each side to mount to the frame! Re-install everything, looks right at home! The resevoir doesn't interfere with the air box at all, nor the battery! The compression and rebound adjusters are super easy to reach, so this is pretty awesome mod. I had to back off the compression damping about a half turn to make it feel more comfortable, and it turned out to only lower the rear wheel by about 15mm. Makes a world of difference though! Rebound damping is so nice! Then got angry at the kickstand mount that lowsided me at streets of willow, so took the grinder to it! Problem solved! New rear shock feels great, went for a long test ride, and especially when you can find these used shocks on ebay for $20 SHIPPED, pick up a drill bit and some hardware, you definitely have a budget rear shock that is worlds better than the stock one. Upcoming: Racetech 0.70 springs and gold emulators, Jardine GP-1 exhaust, jet kit, filter and rest of the safety wire, as well as general engine cleanup, weight reduction and cleanup, plus some kind of bodywork. |
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November 3rd, 2010, 06:45 AM | #2 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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great thread - looking forward to more.
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November 3rd, 2010, 08:02 AM | #3 |
Pimpin
Name: Richard
Location: Ninja 250 Whorehouse
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): Bunch of em Posts: 973
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Nice writeup! I see your snorkel in there... make sure you keep it. AFM requires it
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November 3rd, 2010, 08:12 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Craig
Location: Silicon Valley, CA USA
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '98 EX250, '02 EX250, '08 250r, '03 SV650, '98 GSXR750 '03 Hayabusa, '87 YSR50, '84 ZX900, +MORE Posts: A lot.
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Rule 9.1.6i (linkage must remain stock).
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CraigHarris.org Pacific Track Time CraigsWeb See you at 2014 MotoGP Laguna Seca! We'll be camping on Fox Hill. AFM #278 |
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November 3rd, 2010, 08:23 AM | #5 |
Money is a drug.
Name: Chaos
Location: South Jersey
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2011 ZX-6r, 2010 250r (RIP) Posts: 251
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wow...im getting a new shock now!
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November 3rd, 2010, 11:16 AM | #6 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Cab
Location: Miami Beach
Join Date: Mar 2010 Motorcycle(s): Blue 10 250r Posts: 697
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Very nice, not to be a nagging nancy.
But, in aviation school they taught us to safety wire around to the outer edge of the nut/bolt so it has tension when its at rest. Not to nock your wiring, it's definitely super clean and has plenty of tension. Just pointing out a small difference Please don't take this sketch as a critique of your wiring, i made a bad wiring first to explain, it looks nothing like this, this is just for sample. You sure showed that kick stand who's boss. |
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November 3rd, 2010, 11:43 AM | #7 |
CVMA #74 WSMC #750
Name: Nemesis
Location: On the track
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): All of them Posts: A lot.
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Good write-up!
Personally, if you weigh more than 170 than I'd opt for a rear shock replacement but the OEM rear shock is fine. Just notch it up to the max. The issue isn't so much the rear but the front. Either thicker oil or a complete suspension job is best IMO. |
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November 3rd, 2010, 06:11 PM | #8 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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I was reading that... and emailed the AFM guys.
They said the intention was to prevent changing the suspension geometry, and since I am still using the stock rocker and stock dogbones, just replacing the rear shock, its allowable to space the linkage to clear the spring. So hopefully they dont hassle me, and if other racers bring it up, I'll explain that its still stock linkage geometry, just spaced apart to clear the new spring, changing nothing! Yeah I'm aware my wiring isn't up to NASM 33540, but I did measure the minimum material sidewall requirement that it specifies (I work in aerospace also) and technically I should be alright. They didn't specify to wire per that spec, so I just did the best job I could without going nuts and having to disassemble everything! I only weigh 150 lbs, so I'm pretty sure this rear shock & spring will be stiff enough! I've already found it to be a little too stiff for the street right now, but going to the track on friday to test it out! |
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November 3rd, 2010, 06:19 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Craig
Location: Silicon Valley, CA USA
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '98 EX250, '02 EX250, '08 250r, '03 SV650, '98 GSXR750 '03 Hayabusa, '87 YSR50, '84 ZX900, +MORE Posts: A lot.
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The club won't care but you might get protested by another racer in the class.
It is a dumb rule. I submitted a rule change to allow linkage modification a couple of years ago but it was denied. My thinking is that changing dogbones is way cheaper than buying an adjustable length shock.
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CraigHarris.org Pacific Track Time CraigsWeb See you at 2014 MotoGP Laguna Seca! We'll be camping on Fox Hill. AFM #278 |
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November 3rd, 2010, 08:04 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: omar
Location: san diego
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): cbr 600rr, ninja 250 Posts: 40
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so the shock body is 15mm shorter than the stock unit? Can you provide the stock shock length? I don't know about messing with the aspect ratio of the bike that much. How is the sag? have you measured the ride height with you on it? maybe it is the same overall on the stiffer spring.
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November 4th, 2010, 08:23 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org member
Name: omar
Location: san diego
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): cbr 600rr, ninja 250 Posts: 40
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hmm still interested in this, from the info I could find on the web the 06-09 gsxr 600 rear shock is 320mm in length, which is supposed to be the same as the 250's stock. can you shed any light on this?
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November 4th, 2010, 08:42 PM | #12 | |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
I backed off the compression damping another quarter (for a total of 1/2 turn) and it feels just about right. Stiffer than the stock shock but not overly stiff. |
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November 5th, 2010, 07:26 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org member
Name: omar
Location: san diego
Join Date: May 2010 Motorcycle(s): cbr 600rr, ninja 250 Posts: 40
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Thanks for the reply and the nice pics.
I'm going to look into this some more and see whats going on with the geometry, it still doesn't make sense it was lowered that much. |
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November 6th, 2010, 03:41 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Sean
Location: Seattle
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 250 Ninjette Posts: 94
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On the safety wiring, take the tips of the wire pliers and curl the cut end into a ring. then the cut end is pointed back at the tie off point, and you will not slice your hand (or the inspectors) if you brush up against it.
Nice write-up on the gixer shock install. -Sean |
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November 7th, 2010, 12:01 PM | #15 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Craig
Location: Silicon Valley, CA USA
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '98 EX250, '02 EX250, '08 250r, '03 SV650, '98 GSXR750 '03 Hayabusa, '87 YSR50, '84 ZX900, +MORE Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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CraigHarris.org Pacific Track Time CraigsWeb See you at 2014 MotoGP Laguna Seca! We'll be camping on Fox Hill. AFM #278 |
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November 8th, 2010, 11:35 AM | #16 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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Rexbo
Good write up Last futzed with by randomwalk101; November 9th, 2010 at 10:35 PM. Reason: Answer found |
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November 8th, 2010, 07:52 PM | #17 |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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Steve, I sent you a pm.
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"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
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November 8th, 2010, 08:24 PM | #18 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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It also appears that the two shocks (one on the ground and one installed) are different??
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November 8th, 2010, 08:47 PM | #19 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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I guess the 06 - 07 gsxr 600/750 shocks has that little red cap (the installed one) and on the reservoir has that little knob.
08-09 one is the blue cap (uninstalled pic). Does the little extra knob on the 06/07 rear shock is to refill nitrogen as compared to the later model (08/09) which doesn't have one?? |
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November 10th, 2010, 12:32 AM | #20 | |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
2wheelguy: I was dragging the kickstand while tracking with the stock rear shock. This last track day with the new shock, I would definitely have hit it again, as I also was dragging my exhaust shield. Speaking of track day, the new rear shock is AWESOME. Three of us were running it on our ninjas there, and we all came to the same conclusion that it worked WAY better than the stock one. We all backed off the compression damping about a half turn, while leaving the rebound at the original setting and found that it worked out really well. The only downside is that installing it really just made my stock front forks feel even worse. With the amount of grip that the bt-003s have, and the amount of loading that I was putting into them, any bumps no matter how small would put the forks down onto the bumpstops and cause the front to chatter some. Even when there weren't bumps, the front end would feel somewhat floaty and disconnected, and not as progressive as it should feel when the tire began to chatter. |
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November 10th, 2010, 07:33 AM | #21 |
Money is a drug.
Name: Chaos
Location: South Jersey
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2011 ZX-6r, 2010 250r (RIP) Posts: 251
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good to hear...can't wait to see what you do about the front suspension. There's no way to adjust the pre-load on the stock ones right?
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November 10th, 2010, 10:19 AM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnathan
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honda 1000RR, 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 105
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How to fix front shocks:
GSXR front end swap. Done.
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November 10th, 2010, 10:40 AM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Colin
Location: Ottawa
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 ninja 250 Posts: 168
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Do you have pics of the gsx-r front end swap?
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Colin #191 - Area P, Elka Shock, Woodcraft Clip-Ons and Rearsets, Attack Race Bodywork, BT 003RS, .700 Fork Springs, DynoJet Stage 2 and BMC High Flow Air Filter. 613 MOTORSPORTS.COM |
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November 10th, 2010, 10:43 AM | #24 |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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Johnathan, you have board mail.
__________________________________________________
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
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November 10th, 2010, 10:51 AM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnathan
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honda 1000RR, 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 105
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I do have pics but I'll post my own thread. This is a good thread that Steve has started.
Jeff I'll get back to you. |
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November 10th, 2010, 11:00 AM | #26 |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): One Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
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Thanks.
__________________________________________________
"I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life, the way I want to" - Jimi Hendrix Cancer |
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November 10th, 2010, 11:02 AM | #27 |
Money is a drug.
Name: Chaos
Location: South Jersey
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2011 ZX-6r, 2010 250r (RIP) Posts: 251
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November 10th, 2010, 11:16 AM | #28 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnathan
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honda 1000RR, 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 105
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To add to Steve's instructions:
1. Those dogbone spacers are 0.5" wide each, and that's exactly what you want. Also, it's ideal they have a flange like that to keep the steel sleeves centered inside the linkage. You could also just use a stack of washers here. 2. Grab some Nylock nuts for the longer bolts you buy. Typically hardware stores don't carry the fine pitch M12 bolts that the ninja uses, so the stock nuts won't work. 3. Go easy when drilling out the steel side of the GSXR shock as it'll be harder and heat up more. Use plenty of coolant and go a little bit at a time taking breaks so the rubber bonded around it doesn't cook. Honestly, easy mod. We did this both in a machine shop (fly cutter, lathe, mill) and in the garage (hand drill, angle grinder) and the results were virtually identical. So you can definitely do this at home with 2 tools. Last futzed with by nope; November 10th, 2010 at 01:55 PM. Reason: fix |
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November 10th, 2010, 02:06 PM | #29 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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November 10th, 2010, 02:25 PM | #30 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnathan
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honda 1000RR, 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 105
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Damn straight, for maximum self inflicted pain.
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November 10th, 2010, 06:17 PM | #31 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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November 10th, 2010, 06:35 PM | #32 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnathan
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honda 1000RR, 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 105
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Because I get godmode braking.
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November 10th, 2010, 06:38 PM | #33 |
self wrencher
Name: john
Location: houston
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250r and 07 600r Posts: A lot.
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Nice. Really like to see some pics &infos
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November 10th, 2010, 08:21 PM | #34 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
Location: Chico
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Sportisimoto USA is born. |
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November 10th, 2010, 08:23 PM | #35 |
The Sportisi Master
Name: Matt
Location: Chico
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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John this is what the fast guys do. The other option is doing the ohlins front end kit which is over $1000 but it is awesome.
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Sportisimoto USA is born. |
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November 11th, 2010, 12:27 AM | #36 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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This is true. Getting rid of one caliper = megabrakes. Also the fact that he got his front end complete for like $300 makes it about the same price as springs + emulators, only now you also get a 120 front wheel, way better brake caliper & MC, inverted forks, and adjustable compression + rebound not to mention they're GOLD
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November 11th, 2010, 12:40 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnathan
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honda 1000RR, 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 105
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Also, clipons are way lower and the whole set up is just a tad lighter.
Aite posting a thread with a pic now. Steve, keep building this thread up with your progress for other people interested in a Production Class race setup. Great start so far. |
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November 11th, 2010, 01:59 PM | #38 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Johnathan
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Honda 1000RR, 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: 105
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Here's my personal thread:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...044#post233044 |
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November 11th, 2010, 03:28 PM | #39 | |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2011 Zero S, 2009 KLR 650 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Now to jack the thread back, here's moar pics: Front M/C banjo bolt: Rear M/C banjo: Now I gotta figure out how to wire these two bolts that hold it to the rearset... I dont think loctite is good enough Rear Brake caliper banjo: Rear axle nut: Rear axle adjusters: Found some interesting things after going to chuckwalla racetrack last weekend! Dragging stock exhaust, definitely time to go: Also starting to crack my front brake rotor between the holes. Not a good sign! I guess I'll have to start carrying spares to the track! I'm going to go back and take care of all the sharp ends on the safety wiring and probably re-do some of them to make them look cleaner or get a little tighter. Hopefully the emulator/spring installs will be coming up next, along with more engine safety wiring during phase 2 of the build... |
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November 11th, 2010, 08:12 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Ryan
Location: Sacramento, CA
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250 (street), 1994 EX250 (Race), 2008 250R (Race), 2000 250 (project), 1991 EL250 (a cruiser!) Posts: 287
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Look into an aftermarket front rotor. It should be in the rules next season to allow them.
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