Bike won't start using starter switch

[lilgreenninji]

Ok so I bought this bike about a month ago not running... When I first got her the first thing I did was put a new battery in and try to crank it... kill switch was busted so I just twisted the wires together... but it would try to crank over... after sealing the tank and waiting 4 days I put gas in and tried to crank it using the start button and it won't do anything... I get no click or anything... Jumped the solenoid and it tries to crank.. I eventually got her running just fine by jumping the solenoid... I originally thought the solenoid was the problem... I figured it would be a good idea to replace it anways so I did, still no go.. checked fuses and all are fine except my turn signal fuse keeps blowing (which I think I just remembered why this is happening lol), I pulled the junction box out, inspected the connections which are all fine, and opened it up and it looks like there are two relays in there.. anyone know what relays are for what? Anyone got the scoop on replacements (yes, i can solder). Got any other ideas of what the issue could be? Any help would be appreciated..

[MasterCylinder]

Sounds like the whole right handle bar control is messed up. I'd suggest replacing the whole thing. The start button is damaged from the way you describe it.

[lilgreenninji]

Thanks but i dont think its the start button... I took the control housing apart and installed a temporary push button in place of the start button amd still get nothing... Im fairly certain i Burnt out the relay... I ordered a new junction box on ebay for 10$ as the relays themselves are 15$... Ill post an update if it doesnt fix the issue... Thank you for replying though as ive had several threads with hardly any responses... Very quiet forum...

[MasterCylinder]

If you don't think its the button then use a multi-meter and check the connection running from the junction box to the button and to the solenoid.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by MasterCylinder

If you don't think its the button then use a multi-meter and check the connection running from the junction box to the button and to the solenoid.

This^ and also be aware that the bike has several interlocks - such as the kick stand, clutch and neutral - that must be right in order for it to start.

From your description it sounds like the bike was abused and left out in the cold and rain. As such, I would check ALL electrical connections and look for signs of corrosion.

[MasterCylinder]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

This^ and also be aware that the bike has several interlocks - such as the kick stand, clutch and neutral - that must be right in order for it to start.

From your description it sounds like the bike was abused and left out in the cold and rain. As such, I would check ALL electrical connections and look for signs of corrosion.

Yup! - My bike's horn wouldn't work previously and I ended up taking the controls apart and cleaning the horn's connection and now it works wonderfully.

[papawhellie]

I am jumping my solenoid. Does the clutch need to be pulled in? My handle/perch is missing as well but I can actuate the cable.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

This^ and also be aware that the bike has several interlocks - such as the kick stand, clutch and neutral - that must be right in order for it to start.

From your description it sounds like the bike was abused and left out in the cold and rain. As such, I would check ALL electrical connections and look for signs of corrosion.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by papawhellie

I am jumping my solenoid. Does the clutch need to be pulled in? My handle/perch is missing as well but I can actuate the cable.

If everything is correct, you should be able to put it in neutral and start it. The neutral switch overrides both the clutch and kickstand switches.

[rabies]

whatever you do...try at least to figure it out first(goes for anyone)
dont just "buy another" taking things apart can be intimidating but you learn alot.
eventualy you end up rewinding your own stator and rebuilding your own starters..saves $ and its fun..if you ever come to the point of that learning though nomsayn

[papawhellie]

I pulled the little connector off and there are three terminals in there. Mashing the start button I get no voltage to any of these. Where does the wire from the switch come to the solenoid?

[n4mwd]

Check to make sure your starter solenoid is working. It has four terminals, two bolt connectors and one 30A fuse. Make sure the fuse is good.

Put bike in neutral and short the two bolt terminals across each other with a wire. The engine should turn over.

If it does, then work your way backwards from the solenoid to the starter switch. Make sure the Kill switch is set to run.

[papawhellie]

Worked on my start button issue today. I pulled the handle bar switch again. I have 12V on one wire on the switch.


Traced the black and red wire back to the harness here and it ohms from the button to the green connector under the tank and from the mate to that plug to here to the fuse box. The wire bring back the voltage is good. When I jump the solder spots on the back of the button switch nothing happens.

So I pull the fuse box...

[papawhellie]

Sorry bout the pictures got dark and camera don't know how to focus(might be me).

So What tells the solenoid to pull in? One of these relays? Can someone tell me what they do. One issue my box had was one of the pins involved in running to the button had been pushed back and was not making contact in the connector when I plugged it in. I pulled it back out(it is the one with a little sideways turn) and ohmed from the pin to the solder joint on the rear of the board. It has continuity. Has anyone replaced this system with a bosch relay. I though I read someone replaced the fuse box and solved their problem.

[n4mwd]

Just trace the problem back to the switch using the schematic provided. One relay is for the headlights and the other is for the starter. The starter relay is controlled by the neutral switch and the clutch switch.

If your neutral light comes on then the neutral switch is working. Have you messed with the clutch lever recently? A lot of people have broken the switch trying to lube cables and such. Try connecting the green-yellow wire from the junction box to ground to see if you can start it.

The red-black wire at the junction box is the wire from the starter switch. You can test that with a meter to see if the starter switch is providing +12V to the relay.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Just trace the problem back to the switch using the schematic provided. One relay is for the headlights and the other is for the starter. The starter relay is controlled by the neutral switch and the clutch switch.

If your neutral light comes on then the neutral switch is working. Have you messed with the clutch lever recently? A lot of people have broken the switch trying to lube cables and such. Try connecting the green-yellow wire from the junction box to ground to see if you can start it.

The red-black wire at the junction box is the wire from the starter switch. You can test that with a meter to see if the starter switch is providing +12V to the relay.

Thanks a million! I jumped the green-yellow to the negative terminal and yeaaaaaa she spins

My clutch switch is missing in action, I am using a generic lever and a perch from a 72 TS 185. What's my solution boss, is there something to jump at the clutch switch to solve the problem, or do I make a quick jerry rig off the wire at the j box. I really don't want to compromise my harness unnecessarily so I will wait on your next home run.

[n4mwd]

My advice is to dump the generic stuff and go back to OEM. Ebay is the place for reasonable prices on Ninja parts.

Headlight/Turn Signal/Horn switch assembly. - $15.99

Clutch lever and perch - $20.25

Then just plug it all in.

.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

My advice is to dump the generic stuff and go back to OEM. Ebay is the place for reasonable prices on Ninja parts.

Headlight/Turn Signal/Horn switch assembly. - $15.99

Clutch lever and perch - $20.25

Then just plug it all in.

.

I did not look at it today got pulled away after messing with my signals a little bit. What I was asking is, in your opinion, is the clutch lever switch the problem. I will grab the oem lever, already have the switch, but I need the choke handle plastic piece desperately!!!! I would not be opposed to a cleave mod to pull choke at the carbs though. Most bikes I ride are that way so no biggie for me. Yep I am old school!

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by papawhellie

I did not look at it today got pulled away after messing with my signals a little bit. What I was asking is, in your opinion, is the clutch lever switch the problem. I will grab the oem lever, already have the switch, but I need the choke handle plastic piece desperately!!!! I would not be opposed to a cleave mod to pull choke at the carbs though. Most bikes I ride are that way so no biggie for me. Yep I am old school!

Yes, the clutch switch is the problem. The bike wont start without it.

Here's a wrecked one with most of the parts you need for $30 including the choke lever and cable.

[rabies]

if you didnt care for oem, some dont. lots and lots of bikes have the same setup
choke/turn signlas/horn etc on the left. you could use any bikes controls jus match wires where they go. im doing this for a smaller version.
the choke cable, i have no fairings so i reach under the tank and adjust the choke by hand. very easy. so i jus took off the choke cable.....jus an idea

[CZroe]

@papawhellie, if you still want a choke lever, check with the guys running EcoTrons FI conversion kits (they no longer need theirs).

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Yes, the clutch switch is the problem. The bike wont start without it.

Here's a wrecked one with most of the parts you need for $30 including the choke lever and cable.

Then why won't it turn over in neutral? That is supposed to over-ride the clutch switch, but we got nothing without shorting the starter directly.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by CZroe

@papawhellie, if you still want a choke lever, check with the guys running EcoTrons FI conversion kits (they no longer need theirs).


Then why won't it turn over in neutral? That is supposed to over-ride the clutch switch, but we got nothing without shorting the starter directly.

I ended up figuring out a part number on ebay and getting one from rockymtatv OEM

LEVER,CHOKE
131180001024

$5.98

1
$5.98

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by CZroe

Then why won't it turn over in neutral? That is supposed to over-ride the clutch switch, but we got nothing without shorting the starter directly.

The neutral switch connects through the clutch switch. So even if the light comes on, the engine wont start without the clutch switch.

However, I'm not clear on why it was removed.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The neutral switch connects through the clutch switch. So even if the light comes on, the engine wont start without the clutch switch.

However, I'm not clear on why it was removed.

I saw his bike and it's simply not there. He has a clutch lever and perch from an entirely different bike and the connector is just disconnected. However, I can start my bike in neutral with or without the clutch lever pulled, so it must not be wired through the actual switch itself and must just pass through along with it. Strange. I don't see why it would be wired through that connector at all.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I saw his bike and it's simply not there. He has a clutch lever and perch from an entirely different bike and the connector is just disconnected. However, I can start my bike in neutral with or without the clutch lever pulled, so it must not be wired through the actual switch itself and must just pass through along with it. Strange. I don't see why it would be wired through that connector at all.

I am saying this from general knowledge, not from studying the diagram. I assume the neutral switch feeds through the clutch lever switch at all times. By pulling in the clutch the neutral switch is bypassed enabling it to be cranked in gear. There are 3 wires present at the connector.By jumping the correct 2 I am only accomplishing what the clutch switch if present would do through a normally closed contact. If the bike is in gear, pulling the clutch lever will accomplish the same thing which is completing the circuit of the interlock route the circuit has to navigate to start.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The neutral switch connects through the clutch switch. So even if the light comes on, the engine wont start without the clutch switch.

However, I'm not clear on why it was removed.

It came that way I jumped out the connector there and am using the start button now.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by CZroe

I saw his bike and it's simply not there. He has a clutch lever and perch from an entirely different bike and the connector is just disconnected. However, I can start my bike in neutral with or without the clutch lever pulled, so it must not be wired through the actual switch itself and must just pass through along with it. Strange. I don't see why it would be wired through that connector at all.

It has to have the switch or it wont connect to the neutral switch. Pulled or not doesn't matter. I posted the schematic a few posts back.

I suggest that he gets the switch and the rest of if and brings it back to OEM. They sell fancy $50 levers if he is so inclined, but the $10 stock levers work just fine.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

It has to have the switch or it wont connect to the neutral switch. Pulled or not doesn't matter. I posted the schematic a few posts back.

I suggest that he gets the switch and the rest of if and brings it back to OEM. They sell fancy $50 levers if he is so inclined, but the $10 stock levers work just fine.

Thank you for your help. I figured it out on your tips. I contacted that seller and asked if he would take 30 bucks shipped for that assembly plus a birdcage he has. My right mirror won't adjust for vision because the mount is bent. He has not replied yet. My Ninja is looking lots better. I put the plastic on. Ordered some rear pads as well as I have none. Been a front brake man. Tires coming..two K and L carb kits to replace that bent needle. Guess I will try and pickup a few 3mm washers before they get here and drop a couple in when I pull the needles. Have the replacement needles been satisfactory?

[n4mwd]

You should post some photos of it.

For parts, nobody can usually beat ebay. Just be aware what the OEM new prices are so you don't get burned. I had to buy a new handlebar for my bike and the ebay boys wanted $10-$20 more than ronayers.com for an OEM factory new one.

I just finished rebuilding a project Ninja myself. It basically needed a new engine plus some other stuff.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

You should post some photos of it.

For parts, nobody can usually beat ebay. Just be aware what the OEM new prices are so you don't get burned. I had to buy a new handlebar for my bike and the ebay boys wanted $10-$20 more than ronayers.com for an OEM factory new one.

I just finished rebuilding a project Ninja myself. It basically needed a new engine plus some other stuff.

Yea they wanted 13 for the choke lever shipped which I guess wasn't awfull but I got tires and a clutch pushrod oilseal for my kz 440 so I got free shipping. The lever was five bucks and change. I had been using powersportsplus but they had horrible hold times but were the cheapest. Rockymtatv will match their prices. It takes time and aggravation but you can save 20 or 30 bucks on a 2 or300 dollar order. RMTATV actually had the 100/90 bt 45 for 77.00 best price I saw.

[papawhellie]

snapped a few shots of the clutch lever switch connector today.I jumped out the outside two wires and completed the circuit.


Looks like black to black with yellow stripe.



Picture of the TS 185 clutch perch and a generic black lever I had bought for and enduro/mx bike. I also received my choke lever so now I need to round up a factory perch lever/switch and some screws to put the switch back together. Put my new clutch cable on (thanks czroe) after a 12 mile ride without one.

[n4mwd]

Why not just put on the correct OEM clutch lever assembly and call it a day?

Was the bike wrecked which damaged the clutch lever?

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Why not just put on the correct OEM clutch lever assembly and call it a day?

Was the bike wrecked which damaged the clutch lever?

Yea it didn't come with one. I missed one on fleabay. If you see that assembly cheap post it for me. I need the perch, switch and all. A little at a time...

[Axellor]

Well, if all the associated stuffs are doing well, then what is wrong with the bike. Friend, I will suggest you to take your bike to any mechanic, so that your problem could be fixed properly. Good luck.

[n4mwd]

I went out and took a picture of mine so you could see how it's supposed to look. you don't have it in the right order. since you already have a choke assembly, it looks like all you really need is the clutch lever perch. that is what the switch attatches to. I'll check ebay and see if I can find 1 later on.

EDIT:
Here ya go...

2007 perch and handle $15 - note the missing cable adjusting nut.

Here is a 2008 clutch perch and handle with the adjusting nut $17 - but I can't promise an 08 will fit your pregen. I can't tell there is a difference. I do know that the switch is identical. Its just a matter of whether it will fit the cable and bar.

[papawhellie]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I went out and took a picture of mine so you could see how it's supposed to look. you don't have it in the right order. since you already have a choke assembly, it looks like all you really need is the clutch lever perch. that is what the switch attatches to. I'll check ebay and see if I can find 1 later on.

EDIT:
Here ya go...

2007 perch and handle $15 - note the missing cable adjusting nut.

Here is a 2008 clutch perch and handle with the adjusting nut $17 - but I can't promise an 08 will fit your pregen. I can't tell there is a difference. I do know that the switch is identical. Its just a matter of whether it will fit the cable and bar.

I popped on the 15 dollar one this morning. I was unsure if the switch was included on some of those but could see it in that one. Thanks. I have adjusting nuts everywhere around here. They come with the habit!

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by papawhellie

I popped on the 15 dollar one this morning. I was unsure if the switch was included on some of those but could see it in that one. Thanks. I have adjusting nuts everywhere around here. They come with the habit!

That one looked like a good one with a little wear and tear (some paint is worn off), but the switch is there. The nut on your aftermarket perch might possibly fit. The other thing is that you need two philips head bolts to hold the turn signal/horn switch array on. I see you are using a zip tie for right now.

The hardware store might have them. They are 5mmx25mm-0.8mm thread pitch. Here's one at lowes if you can't find a better one. Its slotted head, but it should still work. Another option is to get it from the dealer. My dealer lets me order online and pick it up in the store to avoid shipping costs. The cost is a little higher than the hardware store, but I know its the right screw. The part number is 220C0525 if you are interested.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by papawhellie

...Put my new clutch cable on (thanks czroe) after a 12 mile ride without one....

LOL! Got maximum use out of your old one, I see.