Stock H7 Bulbs

[klewi]

Ok, so I'm bored. Cut me some slack, it's the dead of winter and what else can I do but think about riding. My first purchase on eBay seems like a success so I'm looking again.

To be honest I haven't done a lot of night riding, haven't needed to. How good are the stock bulbs? Should I upgrade them? I've searched and read some threads and I know a lot of riders are doing a retro on HID's. That aside is it worth it just to upgrade the bulbs?

I've found these on eBay. Give me your thoughts...

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Kawasaki-Ninj...item45ffc38dce

[ForceofWill]

I haven't done a lot of night riding but the first time I rode at night, I KNEW I had to have HID's. It's absolutely ridiculous how bad the stock headlights are. I couldn't see 50ft in front of me. It was actually scary being able to out ride sight line at like 40mph.

After doing the HID projectors, it's insane how much of a difference it makes. I can't believe I rode without them before. Definitely the best mod I've done.

[Skippii]

This is barely worth explaining*, but you have standard incandescent bulbs, and then you have Halogen incandescent bulbs which are slightly brighter and/or longer lasting. They both work by heating a peice of wire white-hot. Standard bulbs use inert gasses from the right most column of the periodic table (usually Argon, sometimes Xenon) called the Nobel Gases. They prevent the wire from burning, like it would do in oxygen. Halogens use gases from one column to the left, called the Halogens. The halogen gases react with the wire in a way that keeps it from burning--sort of the opposite as the inert gases.

Then you have arc/discharge bulbs, like flourescent bulbs, neon signs, and strobe-lamp (camera flash) and High Intesity Discharge bulbs. They run a higher voltage electric arc through the gas. They work just like lightning strikes in a thunderstorm. Neon lights are orange. Camera flashes are white. HID use xenon as a base, with other metals mixed in to adjust the color temperature.

The bulb you posted is a basic, standard, boring, ineffecient normal incandescent. It's not even a halogen. It's sure as hell not an HID. The seller is hoping that because both HID bulbs and standard bulbs contail the same chemical element (in one case used to displace oxygen, in the other case, used to excite electrons from one energy level orbital to another with an electric arc. It's kind of like selling a 60-watt household light as an "ultrabright energy effecient Florescent light tube" just because they're both made of glass.

Edit: I mean it's barely worth giving dishonest sellers this much attention. It was a valid question and deserved an answer.

[Gorilla25]

i heard good things about Philips Motovision bulbs. Its specifically designed for motorcycles. I got a pair of order and cant wait to use them. If I dont like them, i'll go HID when they burn out.

[EsrTek]

Philips Motovision are working just great for me... at least double, if not more, the light from stock and installed in 2 mins (unlike HID conversions). I do not plan on going HID at all!!

[Flying Pig]

Originally Posted by Skippii

This is barely worth explaining*, but you have standard incandescent bulbs, and then you have Halogen incandescent bulbs which are slightly brighter and/or longer lasting. They both work by heating a peice of wire white-hot. Standard bulbs use inert gasses from the right most column of the periodic table (usually Argon, sometimes Xenon) called the Nobel Gases. They prevent the wire from burning, like it would do in oxygen. Halogens use gases from one column to the left, called the Halogens. The halogen gases react with the wire in a way that keeps it from burning--sort of the opposite as the inert gases.

Then you have arc/discharge bulbs, like flourescent bulbs, neon signs, and strobe-lamp (camera flash) and High Intesity Discharge bulbs. They run a higher voltage electric arc through the gas. They work just like lightning strikes in a thunderstorm. Neon lights are orange. Camera flashes are white. HID use xenon as a base, with other metals mixed in to adjust the color temperature.

The bulb you posted is a basic, standard, boring, ineffecient normal incandescent. It's not even a halogen. It's sure as hell not an HID. The seller is hoping that because both HID bulbs and standard bulbs contail the same chemical element (in one case used to displace oxygen, in the other case, used to excite electrons from one energy level orbital to another with an electric arc. It's kind of like selling a 60-watt household light as an "ultrabright energy effecient Florescent light tube" just because they're both made of glass.

Edit: I mean it's barely worth giving dishonest sellers this much attention. It was a valid question and deserved an answer.

Great response, so I'm quoting it. Spelled Noble wrong, but oh well, still a great response

I was wondering if it's worth it to go through the explanations.

OP, bulbs with a blue tint like that rob you of much light to give you the blue tinted look. Unless you don't care about seeing at night, I wouldn't install them. I've bought cars and bikes with them before and they were the first thing that got removed.

HIDs can provide you with more light, but the stock reflective bucket isn't designed for them so they throw the light out everywhere. If you want to do it properly, look into a projector retrofit. Projectors are designed to focus the light up to a point so it won't blind other motorists (if aimed properly).
Plus, if you do one with 2 bi-xenon projectors (use a mirror flap to give you high-beams), both lights are on as low-beams, and both activate for high beams. No more of the cock-eyed look (albeit it's not as bad on the Ninjette as it is on other sportbikes where one headlight is the low-beam, and one is the high-beam.

Here's a detailed walk-through so you can see how it's done, I used this guide as a basis for when I was doing my projectors in my R6.
http://www.r6-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84178

[NDspd]

Go with Phillips bulbs, the motovisions seem to have gotten good reviews so far.

When I put better bulbs in my bike, there was a huge difference in brightness and distance of the beam.

[LoD575]

I am waiting for a set of motovision bulbs to arrive. Even of they burn out in 6 months any improvement over stock will be great.

[Slono]

Did you guys wait until your stock bulbs burnt out?

[Skippii]

Originally Posted by Flying Pig

Great response, so I'm quoting it. Spelled Noble wrong, but oh well, still a great response

Doh! Yeah, Noble elements. I guess Nitroglycerin would be the "Nobel" chemical. [/obscure reference]

Okay, so now the the science is out of the way, I'll move onto personal opinions less based on facts...

OP, bulbs with a blue tint like that rob you of much light to give you the blue tinted look. Unless you don't care about seeing at night, I wouldn't install them. I've bought cars and bikes with them before and they were the first thing that got removed.

Obviously, if white light is turned blue, it's because the reds/yellows/greens have been removed, so yes, there is less light output. What has always surprised me, though, is how little it actually matters. I've read a few explanations as to why this is, most of which conflict with actual science. All I can really say is that a slightly blue bulb doesn't seem to affect how much I can see compared to an untinted halogen of similar wattage. On the other hand, when driving or ride at night, I find cars with blue or even the slightly purplish lights much more noticeable. (The purple lights do seem to have a significant reduction of light output, however).

HIDs can provide you with more light, but the stock reflective bucket isn't designed for them so they throw the light out everywhere. If you want to do it properly, look into a projector retrofit.

Have you tried this? I've heard this said many times on many forums, but it really doesn't seem to be true at all--at least, not when done properly. H4 bulb based reflectors that are retrofitted with H7 or similar HID bulbs do, of course, throw the light out pretty much everywhere, but they'd do the same thing if you stuck an h7 halogen in there. I think a lot of people were doing this about 10 years ago, and it seems to live on forever as advice. It's no different then running it with the high-beams on all the time. I've done it, and it really is almost identical to the high beam pattern, just different.

Modern H4 HID bulbs have reflectors built into the bulb to address this issue, and the pattern is pretty consistent with the stock halgogens. I've used these as well. I find the reliability of the reflectors and mechanical parts to be sub-par, but the beam pattern is just where it is supposed to be.

Both filaments and gas discharge tubes emit light pretty equally in every direction, and if installed correctly, they will emit that light from the exact same spot of the reflector housing. Nothing is going to change about the way the reflector reflects light; the same physics apply, and identical beam patterns will result.

All of this applies to the new-gen as well, with the single filament stock headlights on each side. The only difference is that stock H7 incandescents have some black paint on the bulb to reduce the brightness of looking straight into the bulb. H4 HID retrofits do include a metal plate to block the light, but H7 HIDs generally do not. The point here is that this is not in any way effected by the reflector housing--it's only the unreflected light that is the issue. The beam pattern/spread is identical.
In my experience riding at night with people who use HIDs on the newgen, it is not an issue. If it was, you could just put a spot of black paint/tape on your headlight and the problem would be solved.

As far as projector lenses instead of reflectors...yes. Projectors are superior. Yes, projector lenses will help you get the best lighting for your bike. But it's a mistake to think this has anything to do with the light source. All of the improvements you'd get from a projector be just as dramatic if you used projectors with the stock halogen lights. People often seem to think that projectors are best for HID, and reflectors better for Halogens. That's absolutely not the case. Many auxiliary and aftermarket lights show a dramatic improvement over stock simply by switching to a projector lens with the standard 55w halogen bulb.

[ForceofWill]

I would agree with your last point too skip. But practically, the hardest part about it for us is retrofitting the projectors. Once you've gone that far it would be silly to not also add HID.

[Gorilla25]

Originally Posted by Slono

Did you guys wait until your stock bulbs burnt out?

No. Most of us agree that the stock bulbs suck. So we change it out for safety, more visibility, and to see further.


My Philips Motovision set is showing that it had arrived and will be delivered today

[LoD575]

Originally Posted by Gorilla25

No. Most of us agree that the stock bulbs suck. So we change it out for safety, more visibility, and to see further.

+1 Exact reason I ordered new bulbs.

[jack_bm]

So what bulb would you recommend?

[cuong-nutz]

Originally Posted by Gorilla25

i heard good things about Philips Motovision bulbs. Its specifically designed for motorcycles. I got a pair of order and cant wait to use them. If I dont like them, i'll go HID when they burn out.

Originally Posted by EsrTek

Philips Motovision are working just great for me... at least double, if not more, the light from stock and installed in 2 mins (unlike HID conversions). I do not plan on going HID at all!!

Originally Posted by NDspd

Go with Phillips bulbs, the motovisions seem to have gotten good reviews so far.

When I put better bulbs in my bike, there was a huge difference in brightness and distance of the beam.

Originally Posted by LoD575

I am waiting for a set of motovision bulbs to arrive. Even of they burn out in 6 months any improvement over stock will be great.

Originally Posted by jack_bm

So what bulb would you recommend?

Philips Motovision bulbs! They are a significant improvement over stock headlight bulbs. I do a lot of night riding and can see the improved field of vision and brightness.

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by jack_bm

So what bulb would you recommend?

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...ips+Motovision

[jack_bm]

Cheers

[Slono]

Would anybody here who lives close or close-ish to Toronto be willing to buy phillips motovision bulbs and ship them over to me? Needless to say I'll cover all the costs... the cheapest I could find over ebay is $18 for a pair of bulbs and $14 for shipping. That seems a bit steep to me.

[Flying Pig]

Originally Posted by Skippii

Okay, so now the the science is out of the way, I'll move onto personal opinions less based on facts...


Obviously, if white light is turned blue, it's because the reds/yellows/greens have been removed, so yes, there is less light output. What has always surprised me, though, is how little it actually matters. I've read a few explanations as to why this is, most of which conflict with actual science. All I can really say is that a slightly blue bulb doesn't seem to affect how much I can see compared to an untinted halogen of similar wattage. On the other hand, when driving or ride at night, I find cars with blue or even the slightly purplish lights much more noticeable. (The purple lights do seem to have a significant reduction of light output, however).


Have you tried this? I've heard this said many times on many forums, but it really doesn't seem to be true at all--at least, not when done properly. H4 bulb based reflectors that are retrofitted with H7 or similar HID bulbs do, of course, throw the light out pretty much everywhere, but they'd do the same thing if you stuck an h7 halogen in there. I think a lot of people were doing this about 10 years ago, and it seems to live on forever as advice. It's no different then running it with the high-beams on all the time. I've done it, and it really is almost identical to the high beam pattern, just different.

Modern H4 HID bulbs have reflectors built into the bulb to address this issue, and the pattern is pretty consistent with the stock halgogens. I've used these as well. I find the reliability of the reflectors and mechanical parts to be sub-par, but the beam pattern is just where it is supposed to be.

Both filaments and gas discharge tubes emit light pretty equally in every direction, and if installed correctly, they will emit that light from the exact same spot of the reflector housing. Nothing is going to change about the way the reflector reflects light; the same physics apply, and identical beam patterns will result.

All of this applies to the new-gen as well, with the single filament stock headlights on each side. The only difference is that stock H7 incandescents have some black paint on the bulb to reduce the brightness of looking straight into the bulb. H4 HID retrofits do include a metal plate to block the light, but H7 HIDs generally do not. The point here is that this is not in any way effected by the reflector housing--it's only the unreflected light that is the issue. The beam pattern/spread is identical.
In my experience riding at night with people who use HIDs on the newgen, it is not an issue. If it was, you could just put a spot of black paint/tape on your headlight and the problem would be solved.

As far as projector lenses instead of reflectors...yes. Projectors are superior. Yes, projector lenses will help you get the best lighting for your bike. But it's a mistake to think this has anything to do with the light source. All of the improvements you'd get from a projector be just as dramatic if you used projectors with the stock halogen lights. People often seem to think that projectors are best for HID, and reflectors better for Halogens. That's absolutely not the case. Many auxiliary and aftermarket lights show a dramatic improvement over stock simply by switching to a projector lens with the standard 55w halogen bulb.

I've installed H4 HIDs into my R6's headlights before I went the projector route. They had the housing that you describe. They switched from high-beam to lowbeam by physically moving the bulb withint he base. And they blinded the crap out of people. Especially in dark parking garages, I would constantly see people shielding their eyes as I was passing them, and I've already adjusted my lights as far downwards as I could go. I'm guessing this might be different based on a different bucket design, but it was horrible in my R6.

I've also done HIDs for my friend on his ninja 250. After doing the installation, we found that the light was worse than before at night, and he got flashed by oncoming drivers often. I did the installation during the day, but when he told me, I took it out for a night test ride and saw that the trees were being illuminated. Adjusted his light down almost all the way and then the road was now lit versus lighting up oncoming drivers.

Just 2 real-life experiences from me, but ymmv

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Slono

Would anybody here who lives close or close-ish to Toronto be willing to buy phillips motovision bulbs and ship them over to me? Needless to say I'll cover all the costs... the cheapest I could find over ebay is $18 for a pair of bulbs and $14 for shipping. That seems a bit steep to me.

$18 for a pair is a fair price I think, considering prices range from $16-$20 for a single bulb in the States. So for a total price of $32 is good price even if it is CAD.

http://www.gearheadcanada.com/eshopp...MOTOVISION.htm

http://www.powersportscanada.com/cat...sion&submit=Go