December 20th, 2013, 06:20 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rowan
Location: oakland, kawifornia
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 96
|
can't get this 250 to start
my brain is racked... this is the 8th pregen 250 I've tried to restore and this one has me stumped.
valves are in spec spark plugs are new and have spark (I tested each one on the outside of the cam to see if it was actually getting spark) new gas I've swapped the clutch and kickstand sensors with some from an operating bike carbs have been cleaned and I've tried two different sets compression is good motor turns manually and it turns if attempting to start in gear (I have the bike on the center stand and the wheel spins when cranking in gear) new battery I've also swapped the cdi into another bike and it works new oil and filter when I hit the starter it seems to crank normally but never ignites. I can hear it trying to ignite when I crank and give a little throttle. I feel like this has to be something little that I'm missing... any suggestions? |
|
December 20th, 2013, 08:55 PM | #2 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
Have you verified that fuel reaching and filling up the bowls up to the specified level?
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
December 20th, 2013, 09:08 PM | #3 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
|
Air leak in carb boots?
|
|
December 20th, 2013, 09:29 PM | #4 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rowan
Location: oakland, kawifornia
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 96
|
Quote:
I'll check tomorrow... |
|
|
December 21st, 2013, 04:46 AM | #5 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2016, MOTM - Dec '12, Jan '14, Jan '15, May '16
|
Quote:
You need to connect a U-tube to the drains. It is common to accidentally alter that level during manipulation and cleaning. Also, for start ups, these engines are sensitive to the idle regulation. Of course, you cannot adjust it now, but you can check that the butterfly valves are at least a hair opened. If really stubborn, you can remove the air filter and spray some WD-40 or carburetor cleaner or starter fluid down into the airbox while cranking up. Use an auxiliary car battery rather than imposing too much cranking to the little one in the bike.
__________________________________________________
Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
|
|
December 21st, 2013, 01:12 PM | #6 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rowan
Location: oakland, kawifornia
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 96
|
Quote:
|
|
|
December 21st, 2013, 01:22 PM | #7 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
I'd confirm ignition (I know you said you checked for spark, and have it, but at this point...) by spraying Starter Fluid into the carbs while cranking.
If you have ignition under compression you will get some popping. If you don't, you have an ignition issue. If you do, you most likely have a fuel issue. First make sure you have a strong battery. Voltage while sitting should be 12.7-8V (fully charged). 12.5V is 75%, 12.0V is 25% charged. While cranking you should still have around 12.0V. |
|
December 21st, 2013, 01:27 PM | #8 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rowan
Location: oakland, kawifornia
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 96
|
Quote:
this is my 8th pregen (12th total) that I've restored. I check for things like that first. |
|
|
December 21st, 2013, 01:45 PM | #9 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
|
|
December 21st, 2013, 01:58 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rowan
Location: oakland, kawifornia
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 96
|
Not sure if you'd consider it a pop. It makes the normal crank sound deeper like its on the verge of igniting. Similar to cranking with the throttle open
|
|
December 21st, 2013, 02:27 PM | #11 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
|
Is there any restriction in the exhaust?
|
|
December 21st, 2013, 06:24 PM | #12 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
Spraying the Starter Fluid in is a little tricky with an airbox - did you lift the carb slides (EDIT: and open the throttle plates) when you sprayed it? It would be a lot easier to get a good shot into the cylinders without the airbox in place.
You should get some amount of popping and short running if any amount of Starter Fluid reaches a good spark. Last futzed with by jkv45; December 22nd, 2013 at 07:09 AM. |
|
January 3rd, 2014, 11:34 AM | #13 |
Hello Moto
Name: Alex
Location: Ft. Myers
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 1975 RD350; 2001 KX125; 2003 Z1000; 2003 KDX50; 2009 ZX6R; 2011 Ninja 250R; 2014 KX250F Posts: 352
|
Is it possible the coils are reversed? If they are going to the wrong cylinders the bike will desperately want to fire but will only burp because the ignition cycle is not timed with the piston position.
|
|
January 3rd, 2014, 02:14 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Aaron
Location: Pflugerville, TX
Join Date: May 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Posts: 154
|
Maybe a dumb question, but you've checked to make sure that the cams are properly timed, right?
|
|
January 3rd, 2014, 03:32 PM | #15 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
Quote:
it sounds like the crank position sensor isn't working. it's the little green connector with two wires leading from your stator. it should read between 100-300ohm resistance. too high or too low reading means a short or break and will keep the cdi from triggering spark. you can also check the voltage going to the coils. it should be V+ until the cdi triggers, in which case it drops to V- and the field collapses into the spark plug. so if you don't see voltage when not cranking, or don't see the voltage drop when cranking, you know what the issue is.
__________________________________________________
|
|
|
January 4th, 2014, 04:14 PM | #16 | |
Hello Moto
Name: Alex
Location: Ft. Myers
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 1975 RD350; 2001 KX125; 2003 Z1000; 2003 KDX50; 2009 ZX6R; 2011 Ninja 250R; 2014 KX250F Posts: 352
|
Quote:
I've seen some strange things done to harnesses so I figured I'd ask. Worth a shot right? |
|
|
January 15th, 2014, 08:29 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rich
Location: New Jersey
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 94 EX250, 81 GS450 Posts: 67
|
I am having the exact same issue with a 94' I am building. Mine starts via push start but it takes 3-4 attempts. and once the bike warms up it starts on its own.
I just rebuilt the carbs because I thought that could be the issue. |
|
January 16th, 2014, 02:33 AM | #18 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 2
|
@Oaklandish, any updates?
__________________________________________________
HalfFast Racing Team Serving Greater Houston Area Riders:WFO Riders MotoHouston HPC CMRA Ride Smart Fastline Lone Star Track Days |
|
January 17th, 2014, 04:54 AM | #19 | |||
ninjette.org member
Name: Rowan
Location: oakland, kawifornia
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2002 ninja 250 Posts: 96
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I never checked the coils after I ignited the plugs outside the case and visually saw spark because that satisfied my concern in that area. I'll check them as well. it seems like I had spark outside the motor and now I don't. |
|||
|
January 17th, 2014, 10:38 AM | #20 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
|
maybe theres something wrong with the exhaust you are using? you sure it doesn't have a rat or something in there?
__________________________________________________
|
|
January 25th, 2014, 07:25 AM | #21 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
First off, its always the carbs. Unless its something else - like the battery.
As to why you had spark and now you don't, its probably a loose wire because of all the work you've been doing. Or it could be that all the cranking has drained your battery so that the ECU wont fire under load. The coil polarity does matter, but not enough that it wont start. I hate carbs. It looks like a new EFI group buy may be taking place real soon if you hate them too.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
January 25th, 2014, 07:40 AM | #22 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
January 25th, 2014, 08:44 AM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rich
Location: New Jersey
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 94 EX250, 81 GS450 Posts: 67
|
After two hours of tinkering I finally got the bike to start on its own.
Here's what I did I took the plug boots off the wires, I saw that they were a mess so I cut them down slightly and reattached them. I replaced the plugs with the colder start versions CH8 I believe I then attempted to crank and heard the bike attempt to start but it wouldn't I verified the idle air screws were at 2.5 turns and decided to turn it down to 1.75 turns. Then attempted to start and I got more popping but again bike wouldn't start. I kept adjusting the idle air down and it kept getting better until I was at full lock. The bike wanted to start but still couldn't. I verified I was at full choke and I was. I came to the realization I'm getting too much air. I took all the preload off the butterflies using the idle adjuster and the bike fired right up. Has anyone needed to fully tighten the idle air screws to get a bike to start? Now that I got it to fire, I feel better so its time to start tearing it apart. |
|
January 25th, 2014, 09:12 AM | #24 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
Based on what you found, it sounds a lot like your carb boots are leaking. Either they aren't on right, aren't tight or might be cracked. They are rubber so cracking is a definite possibility. Also, the clamps squish the rubber to the point where they can't clamp tight. If the boots are not cracked, etc, then wrap the ends tightly with CLOTH electrical tape X 5 windings. This gives more diameter and allows the clamps to clamp tighter. Did I mention that I hate carbs?
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
January 25th, 2014, 06:20 PM | #25 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
|
Quote:
A colder plug (CR9 - higher number for NGK) is for high RPM running or when you are making more power than stock. A hotter plug (CR7 - lower number for NGK) is for consistent low RPM/low load running. Stick with NGK in the stock heat range to avoid any problems. http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_su...2.asp?mode=nml http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/techinf...tnumberkey.pdf |
|
|
January 25th, 2014, 06:35 PM | #26 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Also make sure you are running NGK and not Champion or some other brand.
Your life will be a lot simpler if you stick with NGK for this bike.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
January 26th, 2014, 11:27 AM | #27 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rich
Location: New Jersey
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 94 EX250, 81 GS450 Posts: 67
|
Please forgive me. The plug that was in the bike was a CR7, I replaced it with the colder plug CR8 not CH8. My memory gets worse as I get older.
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
'07 250 won't start | heroin300 | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 10 | May 10th, 2014 08:59 PM |
06 250 Won't Start, Please Help! | aspenratt07 | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 39 | May 16th, 2013 09:32 AM |
Why to start on a 250. | Mr.E | Videos | 11 | June 22nd, 2011 05:19 PM |
'08 250 won't start | Rynownd | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 84 | September 8th, 2009 10:20 PM |
'06 250 won't start | Nemy | 1986 - 2007 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 24 | May 23rd, 2009 04:17 AM |
|
|