Doing a complete brake job; what's a good order of operations?

[Cra1g]

So I'm planning on changing the brake pads, switching out the stock lines for stainless steel, and putting in new brake fluid, but is there an order of operations that I should follow?

Right now, I'm thinking this:

1. Drain the old brake fluid
2. Remove the stock brake line
3. Remove caliper
4. Change brake pads
5. Reinstall caliper
6. Install new stainless steel brake lines
7. Fill with new brake fluid

Is there any harm to this? Or should I install the new lines first and then change the brake pads? Does it make a difference?

[MrAtom]

Looks good to me. Keep a ton of rags around. You're gonna make a huge mess no matter what. Remember to reinspect your work, checking for leaks, and ensuring that your brake still feels firm.

[adouglas]

2 and 3 might get swapped, depending on what you encounter when you do the job.

Additional notes:

Keep a LOT of shop towels handy and also a spray bottle full of water within arm's reach. Brake fluid damages paint so when the inevitable spill happens, you want to deal with it immediately. Sop up all you can, spray it with water, sop up again until you've gotten everything.

A good idea to thoroughly go through the motions associated with bleeding before you actually do it, so you don't get into an awkward situation at an inappropriate time.

It's not difficult, but it's something you don't want to mess up.

[MrAtom]

^Good advice on practicing the motions first.

Also, it makes it insanely easier to do a brake job on a car later if this is your introduction to doing brake service. I just did it on the cage a few days ago and, aside from a caliper that got massive prolapsing hemorrhoids and needed to be replaced (it actually kinda looked like that), everything went really well.

[Ghostt]

Here is my write-up on the subject

I recommend that every time you change your pads, you service the calipers, he's my write-up to help you out. It should fix your initial problem, and keep your calipers in top working order.

For those of you whom are scratching their heads, here you go,*

Front Caliper Service (also rear as well)

Many folks have posted here with a Varity of front brake problems.

*Many of which are attributable to the lack of proper maintenance.

*Here’s how you can always have a brake like when your bike was new.

A short list of the problems and the causes.

Soft lever or lever goes to the bar.

The usual cause is the pistons are pushed too far back into the caliper by a flexing a warped, coned, disc.

*Using up too much piston travel before the disc is pinched.

Juddering in sync with wheel rotation.

The disc is worn, and its thickness varies. *This causes the caliper to “sink” into the thin part and when the thick part comes around, it gets wedged into a smaller space causing a tightening of the brake. Then the tight spot passes through and it like the brake is released. Then repeat, repeat.

Cupped, coned, or warped disc.

Unfortunately this is a common problem with EX’s the cause is the disc is stretched in the center due to being rigidly bolted to the wheel. *The huge force of braking is transmitted to the wheel through the webbed center of the disc which gets stretched and becomes larger than the space it occupies in the center of the disc. This causes the center to push to the side trying to find room for itself.

*Resulting is a cone shaped disc.

Soft lever 2

The caliper has pistons only on one side, so as the pads wear the caliper must shift sideways apply even pressure on both sides of the disc.

*To allow this the caliper floats on two pins. *If these pins get dry (no grease) dirty or bent. The caliper won’t center itself and bends the disc to wherever it is.

This take up lever travel and when released pushes the pistons further back than necessary.

*If not fixed will eventually destroy the disc (warp it).

Ok how to prevent all of the above.

When new pad time comes around, resist the temptation to just pop in new one and go.

*Every time you must do these things.

Remove caliper disassemble and clean it.

Clean and re grease the sliding pins.

Polish the caliper pistons to remove dirt. If you just push the pistons back into the caliper leaks will result. Or binding.

Tools required:
12 mm socket
8mm open end wrench
3” or bigger C clamp
a supply of new bake fluid.
wire brush and or steel wool.

Remove the caliper from the fork leg but leave the brake line on.

Remove the old pads and the mounting frame (the sliding pins)

Remove the cover from the Master Cylinder on the Handel bar.

Attach the C clamp to one of the pistons but don’t squeeze it. *Pump the lever on the bar slowly to push out the other piston almost all the way. *Put the C clamp on that piston and push out the other one.

Remove both pistons by hand.

Remove all the rubber part from the caliper, the seals are in the grooves in the caliper and dull pointed thingy will get them out easy.

Disconnect the caliper from the brake line.

Soak all the rubber parts in new clean brake fluid * ONLY!!!!! * Rub them with you fingers till as clean as new.

The caliper can be cleaned with a wire brush or even a Moto tool for the internal grooves, NOW’s the time to paint it if you wish.

Polish the pistons till they are smooth and shinny. They are chrome plated. If any of the plating is chipped or damaged below the dust cap groove. *Replace it.

The master cylinder is the subject of another write up and we’ll assume it in good working order here.

If you suspect your disc is bad, your bets bet is to replace it with an after market one fro EBC or Galpher.

*Don’t remove the disc unless you intend to replace it. *It will assume a new shape if it is * stressed and will not be flat again. You can try to check its condition by placing a straight edge across the face of the pad swept area looking for any distortion.

Re assembly

Take the nice clean rubber seals and install them into the caliper then the Dust covers.
Wet all the rubber with new clean brake fluid and partially fill the caliper with new fluid.

Push the pistons though the dust seals and into the caliper body until the dust covers snap into the grooves.

Fill the MC with new fluid and pump the lever while holding the Line above the MC till clean fluid flows.

Connect the line to the caliper while holding it above the MC.

Pump the lever with the bleeder valve open till fluid flow from the bleeder.

*Hold the caliper so that the bleeder is the highest point.

Close the bleeder and pump more fluid into the caliper but don’t push the pistons all the way out.

Then squeeze the pistons all the way back in and install the new pads.

Re grease the slider pins and assemble the dust seals and re mount the caliper on the forks but leave the bolts loose.

Now clamp the caliper to the disc with the brake lever.

Look at the space between the fork lugs and the caliper, clamp and release a few times as you tighten the bolts by hand. It one lug touches much before the other the odds are you mounting bracket is bent. You can straighten it.

*After you get it the best you can. Some shim washers made from alum can stock can be fitted to the loose side.*

** *What we are doing here is trying to minimize the bedd in time and gets the best pad life.


Ok with everything tight you should be through, Notice we don’t need to bleed the brakes, but if you screwed up in any of the above steps, you might do that here.

Be careful to Bedd in the new pads gently.

*Too much pressure too soon will burn the pad material as only a small area will be gripping at first. You also won’t have full braking power till the pads are fully familiar with the disc

I also recommend flush and fill with new brake fluid, also I'd go with 5.1DOT.

No matter what kind of brake fluid you choose, always periodically flush and fill with new fluid.

This is the one I use


https://m.motul.com/ca/en-us/product...-1-brake-fluid



Also inspect the brake lines, replace is needed, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Stainle..._lines_upgrade

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Our hose design uses free-floating swivels, which allow you to loosely install everything before the hoses are tightened into place. This ensures the hose is not forced into a twist or kink when the banjo bolts are tightened. If you're worried about leaks, don't be. Our swivels work on the same premise as every threaded connection on a car or truck.

As you can see, we're sort of obsessed with quality and safety. We look at it this way: If we're asking you to put our brake lines on your bike, you're trusting us with the integrity of your brakes. That's a serious concept and we refuse to compromise when it comes to the integrity of your brakes.

I have these stainless steel lines on my Ninjette, and so far, some good, I recommend getting the stainless steel banjo bolts, I noticed my chrome ones have started to rust slightly, a good excuse for me to upgrade to titanium

On my 91 EX500 I have Spiegler, in orange to match that bike.

So you have made the decision that your OEM rubber lines need to be changed.

So why choose Spiegler Brake Lines?

A: Strength

That’s the short answer. But it doesn’t tell the whole story.

Spiegler Brake Lines strength comes from our innovation and research, materials and construction, knowledge and experience, service and support.

At Spiegler, we believe that the more you know about what we put into our products, the better you’ll be able to answer that question yourself.

That’s the short version; now let’s cover this topic more in depth.

Most OEM manufacturer recommend that you replace your rubber brake lines every 2 to 3 years. Why do the OEM’s recommend this? Over time OEM rubber lines deteriorate rapidly due to expansion and UV damage. This leads to increased braking distances and possible failure.

At Spiegler, our brake lines are made of only the finest materials available.

Outside casings are made of tightly woven stainless steel braiding that exceeds our competitors
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Crimp sleeves are made from stainless steel; competitors are using mostly carbon steel
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For more information on why you should choose Spiegler Brake Lines, you can view the following pages for a more detailed look into Spiegler brake lines.

When it comes to safety items like brakes, when in doubt, throw them out, it's your safety in your hands, and is cheaper than a visit to the ER.

Buy quality pads,I personally recommend EBC brand either the HH, or the Extreme HH.

EBC full floating rotor, replace the OEM rubber line with a stainless steel braided brake line, cheaper than replacing them with OEM.

On my 500 I have Spiegler line

http://www.spieglerusa.com/brakes/cy...line-kits.html

On my Ninja 250 i went with Venhill

http://www.venhillusa.com/products.html

With all that, it will stop on a dime, and leave you nine cents in change.

look here http://ebcbrakes.com/products/motorcycle/

And also read this, http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...otors_and_Pads

That should answer any questions you might have.

[MrAtom]

Ghostt, we should make an account called Ghosttbot and it just replies "Hey! I've got a writeup on that!" when it sees keywords haha.

[MLR]

I would clean the pins as well, light sand with very fine wet and dry paper then light spray with wd40 and then wipe off all the wd40 off the pins.

Maybe even rebuild MC, 3 piston seals and 1 circlip wont break the bank.

[Ghostt]

Pins need the proper lube WD-40 is NOT lube.

Invest a few bucks in the proper lube, and your safety as well.

Never take shortcuts, or be cheap when it comes to brakes.

One must remember the front does almost all the stopping, in a panic stop, it does all the stopping, and you have only one, you do the math.

[MLR]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

Pins need the proper lube WD-40 is NOT lube.

Invest a few bucks in the proper lube, and your safety as well.

Never take shortcuts, or be cheap when it comes to brakes.

One must remember the front does almost all the stopping, in a panic stop, it does all the stopping, and you have only one, you do the math.

I'm happy to learn something today, I've always used wd40 on metal that I've sanded or filed, no so much for lubrication as for a protectant, hence why I wipe it all of once it has "soaked in" to the steel.

What do you recommend, I've seen people use anti seize but that to me looks dodgy, unless you wipe it all off with a dry rag?

[Ghostt]

Originally Posted by MLR

I'm happy to learn something today, I've always used wd40 on metal that I've sanded or filed, no so much for lubrication as for a protectant, hence why I wipe it all of once it has "soaked in" to the steel.

What do you recommend, I've seen people use anti seize but that to me looks dodgy, unless you wipe it all off with a dry rag?

One must remembewhat WD-40 was originally designed to do.

For caliper pins I use this, and a dab will do you.

Permatex 85188 Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube, 0.5 oz. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004WJPN2A..._H09jzbB3ZKNTN

[MLR]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

One must remembewhat WD-40 was originally designed to do.

For caliper pins I use this, and a dab will do you.

Permatex 85188 Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube, 0.5 oz. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004WJPN2A..._H09jzbB3ZKNTN

Wd 40 was first designed as a corrosion protectant.

Thanks for the link

[MrAtom]

Originally Posted by MLR

I would clean the pins as well, light sand with very fine wet and dry paper then light spray with wd40 and then wipe off all the wd40 off the pins.

Maybe even rebuild MC, 3 piston seals and 1 circlip wont break the bank.

You also really shouldn't sand/file the caliper guide pins. You want them smooth so there's as little friction as possible. If they're all scabby, replace them. You could use a wire brush to clean them up, but that should only be a measure to hold you over until the new guide pins arrive. Otherwise, you'll end up with uneven pad wear and possibly a warped rotor.

and, just my $0.02, WD-40 is marketed to be "good at everything." In reality, it's either just okay, or mediocre at everything. It's not even a good penetrating fluid. I have a can of the stuff in my garage, but only because I never use it and it stays full.

[MLR]

I have found no adverse wear using 3000 unigrit wet and dry.

I don't always sand them, but after cleaning if I find and small imperfections on the pins I smooth them off.

I have used this method on cars and bikes for years.

So far no pads, discs or kittens have been harmed.

As for wd40, I use it quite a bit for moisture dispersant and corrosion protection.

Each to their own I guess.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Cra1g

So I'm planning on changing the brake pads, switching out the stock lines for stainless steel, and putting in new brake fluid, but is there an order of operations that I should follow?

Right now, I'm thinking this:

1. Drain the old brake fluid
2. Remove the stock brake line
3. Remove caliper
4. Change brake pads
5. Reinstall caliper
6. Install new stainless steel brake lines
7. Fill with new brake fluid

Is there any harm to this? Or should I install the new lines first and then change the brake pads? Does it make a difference?

I think you're right on the money. I would use a piece of clear plastic tubing over the brake bleeder valve to drain and bleed your brakes. Push the open end of the plastic tubing into a clear plastic soda/pop/water bottle. This way you can monitor the fluid and see the air bubbles come out as you pump the brakes. I strongly recommend that you bleed your brakes at the beginning of every riding season. It'll save you tons of money in the future. I have had a Honda 500 for eight years. One of the first things I did was bleed the brakes and have done so every year. I have never had to replace any brake parts - including the brake pads. People I know are replacing brake parts and rebuilding their brakes all the time. While you are at it peel back the rubber boots that seal the grease on the sliding pins. If you see lots of grease roll the boots back into place and go. If that area looks dry pack the pins with lithium grease. DO NOT get grease on your new brake pads, it will render them useless.

Pump your freshly bled brakes and look for fluid leaks at the banjo bolts.


Bill

[Cra1g]

Sooooo I took off the old brake line, removed the caliper and need to remove the pistons, only to forget that I should've done that part when the brake line was still attached using the hydraulics to push the pistons out.

I improvised and ended up using compressed air to push out the pistons, only to have one of them shoot out at a million miles per hour, creating a nice dent on the ceiling and then go flying somewhere in my garage. I have no idea where it went after searching for a good 30 minutes. I ordered a new one in the mean time.

In any case, the other piston didn't even budge and is still all the way pushed in. Any tips on removing it?

P.S. I also stripped one of the screws on the master cylinder because it just would not loosen at all. Ended up drilling it out and ordered a new screw. So far brake job: 2, Me: 0.

[MrAtom]

I can't think of a way to get it out that doesn't involve your hand near a brake piston shooting out at a high velocity. I'd get it out when you get the brake system back together.

[Cra1g]

Originally Posted by MrAtom

I can't think of a way to get it out that doesn't involve your hand near a brake piston shooting out at a high velocity. I'd get it out when you get the brake system back together.

Well, the problem was I didn't have anything covering the caliper (like a piece of foam) to prevent the piston from shooting out. I was happy with the compressed air method, but now I still need to get the other piston out. However, the compressed air will simply just blow out of the other piston bay that's empty, leaving the other still stuck in there.

I guess I could put the other one back in just slightly (when I find it) and clamp there. Then use compressed air to pop out the other one.

[Ghostt]

I believe I covered how to get the pistons out in my write-up above.

[Cra1g]

Originally Posted by Ghostt

I believe I covered how to get the pistons out in my write-up above.

Yeah, you covered how do it with the brake line still attached, but I have everything completely disassembled. BUT you mentioned using a clamp to hold one in while getting the other out, so it looks like I'll do it that way using compressed air (and I promise I'll be more careful and not shoot pistons across the garage this time).

[MLR]

Originally Posted by Cra1g

Yeah, you covered how do it with the brake line still attached, but I have everything completely disassembled. BUT you mentioned using a clamp to hold one in while getting the other out, so it looks like I'll do it that way using compressed air (and I promise I'll be more careful and not shoot pistons across the garage this time).

I remember removing a spring from a dampener when I was a kid, 5kg (guestamtion) of coil spring nearly took my head off, I've become more cautious with how things react ever since.

Usually it's the simple things in life that we don't think through that kill us, I'm glad you came out unscathed.

[Cra1g]

Alright, got everything put back together and seems to be working properly for the most part. Haven't gone on a test ride yet, but I walked the bike and hit the brakes to make sure it stopped the bike--success. Couple Qs though:

Are the new brake pads supposed to rub more than the old ones did? Doesn't seem to be severe, but more noticeable than before. My guess is that the new pads just need to bed in properly.

Also, I'm still waiting on a replacement screw for the brake fluid reservoir lid. Is there anything wrong with riding the bike while the lid is missing a screw temporarily?

[Timpo]

Watching MC Garage on YouTube always helps when you want to do your own maintenance

Brake system maintenance

Link to original page on YouTube.

Brake lever cable maintenance

Link to original page on YouTube.

Brake lever cable adjustment

Link to original page on YouTube.

Brake rotor maintenance

Link to original page on YouTube.

Brake pad options

Link to original page on YouTube.

Brake fluid options

Link to original page on YouTube.

Radial vs Axial brakes

Link to original page on YouTube.