Lane Position....

[Mr.E]

Not too sure whether this belongs in skills or not, but I'll just shoot for it.

Im having a problem choosing lane position in a 2 or 3 lane road.

I know when I'm all the way on the right, I should be (if safe to do so) in the left portion of the lane. But when I'm all the way to the left lane, close to the center whether there's a median of some sort or not, I tend to stay in the far left of the lane too. Sometimes I drift to the far right, but it feels weird. Is that where I should be though?

Reason I stay in the far left, is so Im aligned with the driver seat of the car behind me, and the car infront of me, so there's more of a chance they'll see me. But, in a 2 lane road, when on the left lane of the road, should I be in the right part of that lane? Closest to the center line?

Also, on a 3 lane road, I too, just like on a two lane road, tend to stay in the left portion when in the center lane. I feel though, that I should be in the middle (position 2). Im not sure. Please help. Thanks.

Yes I took the MSF, no I cant find the book If this is way too confusing, Im willing to post up a diagram. Thanks!

[bkh2]

I was told that lane position 1 is always the dominant position, regardless of number of lanes. Of course, you need to change lane positions if there are hazards that warrant it, but in general, lane position 1 is the correct position in which to be.

[setasai]

My understanding is:

Avoid center lanes always. If you are in the right lane stay left most because of mergers, driveways, pedestrians, doors, other stuff. If in the left lane, stay right most because it makes for easy lane splitting when something happens, also keeps you out of blind spots (cars dont see drivers in their mirror, they see the car which happens to be in the middle/right side of the lane), gives you space to move to the left, and prevents people from thinking they can merge into you.

Also, stay in left or right side of lane because center is least traveled, most likely to have junk on the road. Same with shoulders, lots and lots of gravel and debris that needs to be avoided.

If the road is a 2-way 1-lane each way road, I usually lean towards the double yellow. I find it easier to avoid oncoming traffic that might go over the double yellow than it is to watch every intersection/driveway since the chances of something coming out of a driveway or intersection is so much greater than someone going over the double yellow. That's a tough one though.

Lane position has alot of controversey but personally, what's important is consistency and allowing for maximum options when something happens. Following these rules I feel like gives me the most options. Others might feel different.

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by setasai

Lane position has alot of controversey .

IMO the only thing controversial is when someone (in general) tries to apply a single rule for all situations, and decry anyone who offers alternatives. While their strategies may make perfect sense, there may in fact be other options that make equal sense.

I try to choose a lane position that gives me the best field of view while also allowing escape routes. My lane position varies wildly based on traffic, time of day, etc. I will often ride the same road and use 2 different positions.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

IMO the only thing controversial is when someone (in general) tries to apply a single rule for all situations, and decry anyone who offers alternatives. While their strategies may make perfect sense, there may in fact be other options that make equal sense.

I try to choose a lane position that gives me the best field of view while also allowing escape routes. My lane position varies wildly based on traffic, time of day, etc. I will often ride the same road and use 2 different positions.

Haha, fair enough. I'll drink to that.

[kaiserz]

Originally Posted by Jinx250

IMO the only thing controversial is when someone (in general) tries to apply a single rule for all situations, and decry anyone who offers alternatives. While their strategies may make perfect sense, there may in fact be other options that make equal sense.

I try to choose a lane position that gives me the best field of view while also allowing escape routes. My lane position varies wildly based on traffic, time of day, etc. I will often ride the same road and use 2 different positions.

What he said.

And at night or if I see someone approaching me from behind or if I'm approaching someone in traffic, I swerve around my lanes like a drunk driver, so they'll notice me.

[alex.s]

it always varies depending on what's around you and what you're doing. always (and i mean _ALWAYS_) have at least one escape route. you can't always stop, sometimes you need to swerve to avoid something. don't tailgate. don't let people tailgate you. when you're in the leftmost lane, staying on the left of that lane means people to the right of you have a harder time seeing you so as the left lane goes faster, people will be more likely to cut you off and cut over into the left lane where you are because when they check their mirror, they won't see you. people behind you don't matter... they can see you if they're looking anywhere close to the road, but i don't always trust that so i don't ride in the middle of a road... almost always slightly offset. the people in front of you don't need to see you, so again that gets thrown out the window. make sure you can apply the mph/second rule... if you can't see at least 2 seconds ahead of you for every 10mph you're travelling, you're riding blind. also, make sure you know whats coming in terms of merges or possible intersections (ie- any place where new cars get added to the mix)

oh p.s. noone can ever see you, so don't rely on that. you're the only one responsible for keeping other people from hitting you.

[squaregamer476]

I usually don't want to be in any drivers blind spot. (middle lane) If im next to a car, i usually speed up until im in between cars ahead and behind me , no matter what lane they are in. 2 lanes away is okay to me i guess. I like to be far to my left or right of a lane. i like to have a lot of play in my escape routes. Anyone who tails me, ill just ride slow to irritate.
As for any lane, id like to travel on the side thats has the less patches and cracks. Always seem to travel in the middle of the lane which i really don't want to. Its something i gotta work on.
Has anyone ridden on a long line of crack that has never been patched before? Hate that my handlebar turns on its own and shifts alot. Am i doing it wrong?
i know im a noob.

[squaregamer476]

Is having highbeam on during the day helpful?

[n4mwd]

It really depends on who else is there. There is no cut and dried rule. Basically, you want to maximize your visibility to whoever else is on the road, or attempting to pull onto the road, and also maximize your reaction time and escape route.

You are most visible ...

1) To the guy directly behind you, if you are in the leftmost part of the lane.

2) To the car directly in FRONT of you, in the center part of the lane, but only if he can see out of his rear view mirror.

3) To big trucks in FRONT of you that have no usable rear view mirror, the left side is where you want to be.

4) To cars in the next lane over, just even with or past the door. When not possible because of traffic, ...

4a) To the people in the lane to your right, look for their faces in the side view mirror. If you can see their face, they can see you (if they bother to look). Not everyone keeps their mirrors angled the same way so don't assume anything about that. On my car, I keep my side mirrors angled wide so I can easily see my blind spots from the rear view mirror. Its also good not to stay beyond their rear bumper.

4b) To the people in the lane on your left, that side of cars has a wide angle mirror. There is no blind spot, but they will invariably think you are farther away than what you are so stay in the leftmost part of your lane and not past their rear bumper.

5) To the guy trying to pull into the road from a side street on the right, when you are in the rightmost lane, the left side of it. But the rightmost lane should be avoided in general if possible when not on an expressway.

6) To the guy coming the other way trying to turn left or make a U-turn, and you are in the leftmost lane, the rightmost part of that lane. But if he does turn in front of you, you just have to use your spidey sense to tell you where you want to be. SUV's and trucks tend to make wide U-turns and cars it depends on the driver. So you want to go to the left and go behind him. But sometimes they see you and just freeze like a deer in a headlight. In that case, go right, in front of them.

And if there is more than one situation, I will sometimes go back and forth in my own lane just to make sure they see me. On a three lane road, I always prefer the center lane because it maximizes my reaction time from threats from both sides.

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by kaiserz

approaching me from behind or if I'm approaching someone in traffic, I swerve around my lanes like a drunk driver, so they'll notice me.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I will sometimes go back and forth in my own lane just to make sure they see me. On a three lane road, I always prefer the center lane because it maximizes my reaction time from threats from both sides.

This is a very good strategy that I use often, but it seems like a lot of people have never heard of it. I even got pulled over for it. When the LEO asked why i was "weaving" I asked him to look back in his memory and note that I only did it near intersections. No ticket and the cop even admitted it was a good idea.

Originally Posted by squaregamer476

Is having highbeam on during the day helpful?

Absolutely.

[Numbersix]

I concur with all of the above. I try to leave escape route(s) open, be seen, avoid debris, be seen, avoid tar/cracks/paint/squirrels, and be seen.

[Havok]

what lane position i am in is directly related to what is going on around me. I will change my position as i need to so that i am protected the most and have the best escape routes.

[Mr.E]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I found my self using a lot of these techniques today, and I have some fun, and also more peace at mind. A lot of the ideas helped a lot

[Mr.E]

Btw, I always drive with my brights on during day. When it starts to get noticeable that I have my brights on, I turn them off. You're more likely to be seen from ahead if you have your lights on, even in a car. Motorcycle lights arent as bright or easily seen though, and brights help tremendously since its more light and easier to see during day x-)

[Reddoak]

I ride in a lot of traffic on surface roads, and tend to stay in the left side of whatever lane I'm in. I do this so that my brake lights are directly in front of the driver behind me.

[Lil_Green_Demon]

I tend to stay to the far left of the lane (lane position 1 in the MSF handbook) because, as aforementioned, though it doesn't guarantee a cager will spot you, you've got a better chance of them actually seeing you. Plus, unless the cager's rear window is completely tinted, you can usually see where his/her eyes are through his/her rear view mirror.

[Lil_Green_Demon]

Originally Posted by Mr.E

Btw, I always drive with my brights on during day. When it starts to get noticeable that I have my brights on, I turn them off. You're more likely to be seen from ahead if you have your lights on, even in a car. Motorcycle lights arent as bright or easily seen though, and brights help tremendously since its more light and easier to see during day x-)

Same here. I've only had one person complain thus far about my headlights being too bright. I'm assuming people usually just think that's how the headlights are supposed to be.

[FrugalNinja250]

I stay in whatever part of the lane that I judge, at that moment, affords me the best options for situation escape and best visibility to others. For instance, if I'm in a lane adjacent to another lane that's moving faster I stay closer to that lane so that people in the faster lane will see there's a motorcycle in that gap. If the faster lane is to the right then I'm more to the right, if to the left then I'm more to the left. Most of the time I wind up in the left side, sometimes I'm in the center, sometimes the right.

[akima]

Originally Posted by alex.s

don't tailgate. don't let people tailgate you.

What do you do to stop people tailgating you? Yesterday this guy was right on my ass, so I indicated to the side of the road and slowed down encouraging him to pass. I did it on a long straight road with no junctions turning into that road and no oncoming vehicles. The guy then passed me, opened his window and gave me rude hand gestures

[Mr.E]

Originally Posted by akima

What do you do to stop people tailgating you? Yesterday this guy was right on my ass, so I indicated to the side of the road and slowed down encouraging him to pass. I did it on a long straight road with no junctions turning into that road and no oncoming vehicles. The guy then passed me, opened his window and gave me rude hand gestures

I'd do the same thing you did. Im still in my break in, so when I feel like going considerably slow, I often find my self switching lanes (when possible) before a car comes up behind me. When not possible Ill speed up, but if a car is still on my butt, Ill pull over and get them to go.

The fact that he was rude after you let him pass just means he's jealous of your 250, I wouldnt take it to heart

[massacremasses]

What a jerk. I would have just shook my head. Hes in a car, not a battle I want to be in.

[nickjpass]

My driving manual tells you to wave them on or, slow down to the side and let them pass.

[massacremasses]

what do you do on your bicycle?

jk jk

[akima]

Originally Posted by Mr.E

I'd do the same thing you did. Im still in my break in, so when I feel like going considerably slow, I often find my self switching lanes (when possible) before a car comes up behind me. When not possible Ill speed up, but if a car is still on my butt, Ill pull over and get them to go.

The fact that he was rude after you let him pass just means he's jealous of your 250, I wouldnt take it to heart

For some reason I didn't feel pissed off. I just felt confused. I presume that the guy making the rude gesture and tail gating had some kind of mental disability. At the end of the road I gently pulled up behind him, as a queue had formed lol. What a dummy!

It's soooo totally worth tail gating people!!! It helps you get where you want to go sooooooooo much faster.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

what do you do on your bicycle?

jk jk

No. I read the manual so I pass the exam to get permits.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

No. I read the manual so I pass the exam to get permits.

dont you need to be certain age :O?

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by akima

What do you do to stop people tailgating you? Yesterday this guy was right on my ass, so I indicated to the side of the road and slowed down encouraging him to pass. I did it on a long straight road with no junctions turning into that road and no oncoming vehicles. The guy then passed me, opened his window and gave me rude hand gestures

We have had talked about this before! you carry a bag of marbles in your pocket! jk jk Just watch your rear when you pull over incase its some mental person with a thing against motorcycles.

[blink]

stay where most comfortable for the situation... itd be dumb to stay in X side of lane just because the course told you to when during your ride it is for whatever reason most obviously safer to be in Y

then it comes to preferences. if you are in far left and passing the cars, my buddy always stays in the right side, but I stay left...why? because in our world there are drivers who refuse to signal and change lanes right away; so if you are right beside him you have that much more of a chance to get smoked in a split second. And NO you will not be able to react that quick. Maybe if you are lucky, due to factors you will be able to, but why if you are in the left side and you see him swoosh over, chances are the guy didn't even shoulder let alone mirror check, so would there have been a point to staying in the right side? Hell no,

[nickjpass]

I need to be sixteen to receive permits. I started studying six months early for it

[massacremasses]

You are a child!

Good job being prepared.

[nickjpass]

I might be a child, but at least I think about my future and am preparing for it.

[massacremasses]

Hence the "good job being prepared"

Not everyone is mean to you.

[nickjpass]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Hence the "good job being prepared"

Not everyone is mean to you.

Sorry, I'm pissed.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

Sorry, I'm pissed.

So how many months do you have left before you can get your license?

You could still be watching Craig's List to see if any good deals come up. You are coming up on winter up there which *might* be a good time to buy. I don't see why you can't get one before you are 16 if you are responsible.

You probably can't ride on the road legally without a license, but it might be legal to practice in the parking lot. Parking lots are private property so off-road rules apply. It would be legal in FL, but not sure about NY. Some of that slow speed stuff in the MSF course is pretty hard. If you have some practice, you'll do that much better when the time comes.

[nickjpass]

I want to get my permits, gear (all white and black so I can get any bike), $275 for MSF, then after that start raising for a bike. I will most likely go the used route, but I don't know if I will. I can't stand stuff used by other people, a bit a scared of germs or something. For example, if I let someone borrow a pencil/pen, they can keep it! I don't want it back lol. One kid thought it was funny so he tried to spit on me...kids have nothing better to do, ey? I'd love to get a new bike.

This post was WAY to long. I'll stop babbling now.

[n4mwd]

I suggest you get a good quality used bike as your first bike. But don't settle for junk. You can always go back in a few years and get a new one after you have built up some good riding skills.

I can't comment much about the germ phobia. Most germs can only live for a few hours on a non-nutritive surface like a bike. You're probably going to freak the first time a bird craps on it. Not to mention all the bugs that commit suicide on your helmet. All I can say is that you need to lose the germ phobia. There are too many more important things to worry about when riding a motorcycle.

As far as the gear, I suggest you wait and get the Ninja first. All black or all white is a real chick repeller. Only married guys wear that. Try to get something a little more sexy with more color.

[akima]

Originally Posted by nickjpass

I want to get my permits, gear (all white and black so I can get any bike), $275 for MSF, then after that start raising for a bike. I will most likely go the used route, but I don't know if I will. I can't stand stuff used by other people, a bit a scared of germs or something. For example, if I let someone borrow a pencil/pen, they can keep it! I don't want it back lol. One kid thought it was funny so he tried to spit on me...kids have nothing better to do, ey? I'd love to get a new bike.

This post was WAY to long. I'll stop babbling now.

Aww. Kids are mean. The world is different when you're out of school. Whether it's better... not sure!

Maybe get a pre-gen to start with. I would definitely have done that if I couldn't afford my new-gen. Since being on this site the pre-gens have really grown on me.

I think if you buy a used bike you really have to know what you're doing. If the bike hasn't been properly maintained (and we all know there is Ninjette abuse out there) then it could cost you a lot getting it to the state you expected to buy it in.

I was lucky finding my motorcycle. It had only 1 prior owner who had only ridden it for ~370 miles. You could see it was in perfect condition. I also got it from a garage that said I could have my money back if I decided it was anything but as-new condition. I saved ~£1400 on what I would have paid for it new. I saved more than that really, because the previous owner had paid for a seat cowl and a tail tidy too.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I suggest you get a good quality used bike as your first bike. But don't settle for junk. You can always go back in a few years and get a new one after you have built up some good riding skills.

I can't comment much about the germ phobia. Most germs can only live for a few hours on a non-nutritive surface like a bike. You're probably going to freak the first time a bird craps on it. Not to mention all the bugs that commit suicide on your helmet. All I can say is that you need to lose the germ phobia. There are too many more important things to worry about when riding a motorcycle.

As far as the gear, I suggest you wait and get the Ninja first. All black or all white is a real chick repeller. Only married guys wear that. Try to get something a little more sexy with more color.

My gear is all black and white. I think it looks quite good!

I lol'd at the "bugs that commit suicide on your helmet". Yes: I don't think there is such a thing as a germ-free motorcycle experience. Someone on this forum got sprayed by a sprinkler the other day when he was stationary on his bike; it covered him in filthy, grimy water.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by akima

My gear is all black and white. I think it looks quite good!

I lol'd at the "bugs that commit suicide on your helmet". Yes: I don't think there is such a thing as a germ-free motorcycle experience. Someone on this forum got sprayed by a sprinkler the other day when he was stationary on his bike; it covered him in filthy, grimy water.

Well a black AND white pattern isn't so awful. But pure black or pure white isn't that great. Pure black makes you look more like a Ninja than the bike. All white and you'll be forever washing off those suicidal bugs. Try to get something with black, white AND one of the kawasaki primary colors like red, green, blue, or yellow.

Yeah, I was the one that was attacked by a sprinkler. Actually, the sprinkler wasn't so bad, it was after it blew off and shot me in the face like a fire hose that was the worst. I actually did get sick the next day for a few hours.

Then again, there is rational fear of germs and irrational fear of germs. Rational fear will cause you to wash your hands before meals and after coming into contact with a sick person. Irrational fear will have you using germicidal hand wash several times a day even when nobody is sick.

Motorcycles don't get infections. The gas and oil in them is extremely toxic to germs. Wash the bike once a month to keep it clean and you'll have it just as germ free as any brand new bike.

[massacremasses]

I will be in all white and black when I can

blue and black helmet on my red bike. plus a white and black jacket, gonna get black boots, and I have black and white gloves