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#1 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Hard ticking at idle
Yep, I searched. I Googled. And while this is probably a common issue, I haven't found the right term to describe it, let alone search for it
![]() The new-to-me-'07 started yesterday with 7600 miles on it, and ended the day with 8100. About 400 miles into that run, I noticed a bit of a ticking sound up front between the pipes at idle - off-idle, no tick. Of course, I checked the oil and coolant levels, which were fine, and chalked it up to my ears playing tricks on me... it'd been a long day, what with my 6'1" frame folded up on the little bike, and I was getting a little punchy. Anyway, this morning I headed out for coffee sans earplugs, and the tick - for want of a better term - was pretty damn noticeable. Again, levels are good, off-idle is fine. I call it a "tick" because it's not a low-end sort of "knock" and definitely not a "ping". There's a dark part of my mind that wants to call it piston slap but I really, really don't want to go there since I haven't turned the bike over to the new owner. So, I bow to the collective wisdom here to alert me to other possibilities that might be more relevant to the Li'l 250. Thanks for any pointers. |
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#2 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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When was the last time the valves were adjusted? On the pregens, they are due at the 600 mile check and every 5k after that.
Could the ticking you're hearing be loose valves? |
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#3 | |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Quote:
![]() From the service records, the valves were checked and found okay about 1K ago. This weekend for grins I'll double-check them myself and make sure the cam hasn't jumped a tooth. Problem is, this is the first 250 Ninja I've played with so I'm not certain that the motor's power delivery isn't just part of it's factory corked-uppedness. She's making great power at 7K and up, so I suspect valve timing is currently okay. I'll also do an oil change and think about running a slightly higher viscosity to see if that makes any difference. |
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#4 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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cool... good luck. please keep us informed if replacing the tensioner resolves the problem.
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#5 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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#6 |
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Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.
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If you're going to remove the cam chain tensioner....
to check it's condition, be very careful to make sure you document how it's parts are put together. I've heard from other riders about getting it out and apart then realizing they didn't pay attention to how it goes together. Apparently there's a mistake that can be made with the short, fat spring.
There's a write-up in the ninja250.org FAQs about cam chain tensioner maintenance. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Cam_cha...er_maintenance If it's all pitted like this guy's was, I'd say you should replace it immediately. http://forums.ninja250.org/viewtopic...=778906#778906 I've heard that a loose cam chain can tear up the two guides/tensioners that ride against it (this is mentioned near the end of the Cam Chain Maintenance article I linked you to above) They're made of plastic and if this happens you can find the plastic bits on the oil screen when you do an oil change. (here's the oil screen checking article, http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Checking_the_oil_screen) Good luck with it. |
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#7 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Thanks for the input, guys. I'm 98% sure it's the tensioner. Stands to reason, really, that if it was going to die it'd do it right at 8000 miles while being flogged on the interstate.
The noise almost certainly originates from near the tensioner (though this damn motor is so small it's hard to be sure sometimes!). And the more I think about it, the less I'm liking valves as the culprit as I'd expect them to tighten up after a hard run like that (unless one of the locknuts grew legs, and I sure as hell would've eaten a valve during the day if that was the case). So, since all the shops are closed today, I'll order one up tomorrow (doubt they have it in stock here in Mobile) unless someone can chime in with an internet retailer who'll have stock and can do speedy shipping. You know, one that we trust. |
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#8 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Hey, folks - cooling my heels for a coupla days here. Somebody check my reasoning: if this WAS a sloppy valve, wouldn't I expect it to be just as noisy off-idle?
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#9 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Update: valves are done. Damn, but that's a tight spot for tappet adjustments! Coming from BMW motors, I sure hope I don't need to monkey with these again any time in the near future.
ALL the valves were tight. I ran 4 on the intakes and 6 on the exhausts and erred loose, and now that that's done I'm convinced that the replacement tensioner (which arrives Friday) will be just the ticket. |
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#10 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Allan
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 F17 Posts: 73
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I have the same noise. It's not the CCT or Valves on my bike. It was due up for a major service so the valves got checked and CCT checked. None of that fixed the problem. Mechanic also torqued down the header and checked some other stuff. After some research on ninja250.org I think the problem is this:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What%27..._the_clutch%3F |
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#11 |
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Name: -
Location: -
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): - Posts: A lot.
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Interesting....
Are you going to pull the clutch basket to find out for sure?
The article mentions finding tiny bits of the rubber bumper black stuff on the oil screen. Have you checked your oil screen? |
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#12 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Yeah, in my case it's not the clutch. I pulled the screen early this morning and it was clean... and then I slip-tested the clutch and the rattle persisted.
So, I'm just waiting on the part to come in tomorrow and I should be good to go. |
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#13 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Mmm... new cam chain tensioners are sweeeeeeet
![]() What's funny is that if you compare the spring tension(s) between the old and new units, the squeeze test doesn't show a discernible difference. The most obvious wear item in the assembly looks to be the roller bearing. Oh well. She's quiet and happy now. Time to ride her ![]() Thanks for the input, everybody. |
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#14 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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#15 |
Live Life
Name: Don
Location: Lincoln, NE
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Green SE Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Scott have you a DIY in the works?
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#16 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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#17 | |
ATGATT Squid Killer
Name: Chad
Location: So. Cal
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '06 CBR600 Posts: 189
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Quote:
Gonna have to disagree here. Responsible riders will get 12k miles between valve adjustments on.. hell just about any japanese bike (don't ask about the italians though). But most dealers who want your service money won't tell you that... |
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#18 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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sorry, I mis spoke... it's 6k miles, not 5k. 12k??? I don't think so. it's called "preventive maintenance", not "adjust when you think it's okay maintenance".
do what you want... I'm just quoting what the manufacturer recommends. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Do_I_re..._6000_miles%3F |
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#19 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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#20 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
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sure thats responsible ROFL
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#21 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
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Scott does your bike sound like so?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUVBonQ9AjI if not your probably fine these bikes have a noisy valve train especially cold and at idle...running a good synthetic quiets it down a bunch.
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#22 | |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Quote:
Won't be long before I need to uncork this thing, I'll tell ya. |
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#23 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
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so i just noticed your in rainbow city, i'm just right up the road near Fort Payne. Howdy neighbor
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#24 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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Howdy, mang. Gonna be here this week putting new tires and making nice to the GS and generally farting around before spending next weekend in Mobile, then back to Dallas.
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#25 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
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cool well if your on your bike checkout the lookout mountain parkway it starts somewhere down there near gasden and runs most the legth of the mountain..Fun ride
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#26 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
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Got another bike doing hard ticking. Took a recording today while doing some other things, please ignore my innane commentary. After reading thru this thread, I'm thinking valve chain tensioner for 2 reasons:
1) it's definitely stronger on the right side of the bike, even if it doesn't show in the vid 2) had the valves checked at 7800mi (3000mi ago) and they were spot on. MOV04699.MPG It's ~19MB, be forewarned. Wanted to edit, but can't find my usual vid edit software and don't wanna lose what little sound quality there is in a re-encode As I mentioned in the video, I initially thought it was just drastically too lean, but that wasn't the case. I walked the mix screws to over 3 turns out and no difference. It's running around 40F here and has been doing this for a while. At first thought it was just the 'normal' noise but finally heard another, 'younger' 250 today and it's definitely something wrong. Timing chain tensioner. Agree/disagree/alternate ideas? If so, how bad do ya'll think it would be to ride to my dealer of choice (some ~70mi up the road)?
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#27 |
SooperChikkin.
Name: Scott
Location: Northern CA
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): BMW R1200GS Adventure, '07 250 Ninja Posts: 107
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70 miles? No sweat. But really, just get the new tensioner and swap it yourself... I wouldn't waste the money having the dealer do it.
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#28 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jon
Location: Usa
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): magHitVE Posts: 649
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Quote:
First Valve Clearance Check 800 KM(500) Remaining Checks every 3125 Miles Do you know if I should do a clearance check on a 09'? |
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#29 | ||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Quote:
Might also take a look over here, lots of other opinions on the valve checks: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...hlight=ticking
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#30 | |
Livin' the Minimoto Life
Name: Mark
Location: Riding around in TX
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Oh and the secret to gaining access to the adjusters is either remove the gas tank, or custom make some tools. I did that with a screwdriver and the socket. Ground down a 1/4" drive socket just a tad so it would clear the casting...worked great. Then have a small wrench handy to tighten it up the rest of the way.
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#31 |
North Alabama Mtn. ryder
Name: Nate
Location: Alabama
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Posts: 537
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the 86-88 models needed valve adj. every 3000 miles because they had softer seats than the 89-07 models. I'm willing to bet that the 08+ are similar to the 88-07 valvetrain
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#32 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
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How would one go about this?
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#33 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Jon
Location: Usa
Join Date: Jan 2010 Motorcycle(s): magHitVE Posts: 649
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#34 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Dude!!
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 443
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Did you ever figure out what is wrong? Is there something wrong? I can't tell from the video. What am I looking for?
Edit: I hear the tick. Mine has the same but not as loud. Is that normal? Meaning, is it normal to hear the ticking noise but not normal for it to be loud? Thanks. I only have 400 miles on the bike btw. Quote:
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#35 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
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Well, I've been told the cam chain does make some amount of 'tick' normally and listening to your vids, it sounds OK. Mine is making a lot of engine noise, especially when I was beside a '09 with <1/3 the miles I have. FWIW, I'm at about 10,750mi.
As for my engine, the valves were a bit out of spec (checked while I'm waiting on parts) so that should help a bit. Cam chain, tensioner and guides look A-OK but supposedly the tensioner can be 'bad' and look normal so I'm hoping it was just that. Long story short, still not 100% sure what's wrong, but my ears & shop guy agreed it's the tensioner. Will find out when it shows up and I get it installed.
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#36 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
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Well, after adjusting the valves as well as putting in a new tensioner and guides, my 'jett's engine seems happier. Pretty sure it was the CCT making the ticking, both from other people's reports and the old one felt a little weak vs new one when I re-compressed them both.
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