September 4th, 2017, 05:05 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Indy
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 10
|
415 chain and sproket install question
Today I was going to install a 415 chain and sprocket kit but I ran into some troubles. First time doing a chain and sprocket install but it didn't seem to difficult. I ordered the DID ERZ 415 non o-ring chain. I got the sprockets on no problem and cut the old chain.
But I ran into trouble when it came time to cut the new chain. The new chain was a few links to long so I went to cut it thinking there would be no problems. The tool I was using was the DID 500R which is meant for 520 and up chains so right off the bat the back plate of the chain tool didn't fit snuggly at all. I decided to risk it and try to cut the chain anyway. Since the the backplate wasn't snug, the cutting pin didn't move perpendicular to the chain and pushed the pin at an angle. After messing up, I had to cut the link of with a dremel. Luckily I was cutting the chain for a length at the middle adjustment line so I could move the wheel closer and still use the same chain. Obviously I don't want to mess up again and want to get the right tool for the job. So what tool can I use to cut the chain, press the plate, and rivet the master link. DID doesn't have any tool I can find and all other chain tools are also for 520 chains or larger. TLDR: What tool is used to cut, press, and rivet a 415 chain? Thanks in advance |
|
September 4th, 2017, 05:41 PM | #2 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: john
Location: placerville
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): ninja 300 Posts: 386
|
Quote:
|
|
|
September 4th, 2017, 06:28 PM | #3 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
|
I just grind off a rivet head and punch the rivet through when I want to shorten a chain. I also prefer the clip type master links, with something like 3M weather strip adhesive smeared over the clip.
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 02:57 AM | #4 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bill
Location: Port Huron, Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Kawasaki 250 Ninja, 1982 Honda Ascot FT500 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Bill
__________________________________________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time. |
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 07:16 AM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Indy
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 10
|
I like rivet master links for the peace of mind. Also since I'm racing its one less thing to safety wire and worry about
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 07:24 AM | #6 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
AFM Racing doesn't allow safety wiring of master links, so I use Jim's method of a little glue on clip. I've got a 428 chain conversion. Lighter than stock, yet also stronger and more durable due to wider rollers. With X-ring chain it's lasted me an entire season so far with racing and over 30 track days.
For breaking chains. I've used this same tool for 30-yrs. It's chain-size independent. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004HKIU4C To install rivet type master links, you can use a pin-type tool with block-off plate on back side to support pin. |
|
September 5th, 2017, 07:28 AM | #7 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Indy
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 10
|
Quote:
|
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 07:46 AM | #8 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
|
The side plate is a slip fit on the pins. The catch is that O-ring or X-ring chaings need the rubber rings to be compressed enough to get the clip on. I use a pair of small Vise Grips to gently squeeze the side plates together. You can put the clip on one pin and reposition the pliers to let you get the clip on the other pin. Of course put the clip on so the open end is trailing when the chain moves (closed end toward engine with clip at top of chain loop, toward tail light when it's at the bottom of the loop).
I expect there are other ways to do it too. |
|
September 5th, 2017, 08:19 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Indy
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 10
|
I had an inkling that since the 415 chain is no o-ring I wouldn't need to press the plate, seems that was correct. I ordered a bicycle chain cutter that works for 415 chains. Now all I have to worry about is how to rivet the master link. I may buy a clip style if I can't find a solution, but there has to be a way to use a rivet master link otherwise they wouldn't sell it.
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 08:26 AM | #10 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: john
Location: placerville
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): ninja 300 Posts: 386
|
Quote:
|
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 08:29 AM | #11 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: john
Location: placerville
Join Date: Apr 2016 Motorcycle(s): ninja 300 Posts: 386
|
your talking a non o ring chain, your going to want to clean it religiously,
easier to soak in kerosene when you can take on and off. |
|
September 5th, 2017, 08:51 AM | #12 | ||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
Quote:
Quote:
If it's a particularly tight fit, I'll do one pin at a time by putting a washer over pin-head and squeezing them one at a time. I suppose you can use the pin-pusher tool to press side-plate back on. Just aim pusher-pin right in middle of plate. |
||
|
September 5th, 2017, 02:26 PM | #13 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
|
Quote:
Please do not use a clip style master link. Especially for a 415 size chain. Properly done rivet style master links are much stronger than the clip style links. Of course you have to follow the instructions from the DID website and do it right. And you want the exact specified master link that DID tells you to use. don't use anything else. |
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 02:52 PM | #14 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
Quote:
Helps to use as large sprockets as possible to reduce chain's bend-angle as it wraps around front-sprocket. I have 18/59t combo for slightly lower-gearing than stock. I haven't had any problems with my 428 chain's clip-on master-link and the previous owner ran the same configuration; as have many others. Main issue that's been identified is low-quality master-links that wear quickly. In which case, distance between pins will increase and may actually undo the clip by spreading. That's more of a materials and QC issue than design though. |
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 02:52 PM | #15 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
|
I can understand the argument that riveted links are less likely to come apart at a bad time, but I don't see how they are any stronger then the clip type. The only difference is the way the side plate is retained, not how strong the side plate is.
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 03:24 PM | #16 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bill
Location: Port Huron, Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Kawasaki 250 Ninja, 1982 Honda Ascot FT500 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Bill
__________________________________________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time. |
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 03:58 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Greg
Location: San Antonio
Join Date: Dec 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, GSXR-750, Ducati M1100 Posts: 185
|
Just use the clip style, I've never heard of anybody having a problem with the clip coming off if it was installed properly. Plus you can take the chain off really easily and soak it in cleaner/lube.
I run the 415 chain and have never had a problem with the master, neither has anyone else running the 415 at our local track. |
|
September 5th, 2017, 08:36 PM | #18 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
|
Quote:
Many people think that any 415 master link will work with any 415 chain, 520 master with any 520 chain, etc. They will not. At least not for long. No matter the chain size, the master link is always the weakest part of the chain. There is more to a master link than the clip or rivet simply holding the sideplate on. It is a matter of clearances and the strength of the link as a unit. There is a reason that rivet type master links are used by race teams. It's because they are stronger. And when you're talking about using a 415 chain that wasn't meant to be used on a 250 Ninja that little extra bit of strength can make the difference between winning and watching the race from the side of the track Your mention of 428 chain really doesn't apply because it is much stronger than a 415 chain. I've been through the use of clip type master links, I know how to install them, and I've always used the correct link, yet I've still had them come off of some of my racebikes. And that is even after safety wire and silicone. Not worth the risk of a DNF for me. |
|
|
September 5th, 2017, 09:31 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
A pin-type tool can do all of that. Pushing out a pin is easy, you've done that.
Then pressing the side-plate back on can be done by pushing on the middle of a plate. Finally, expanding rivet master-link can be done by having solid backing-plate on tool to keep from pushing pin out back side. Here's a video showing how: |
|
September 19th, 2017, 07:18 PM | #20 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Dave
Location: South of Chicago
Join Date: Sep 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninjette 2006 FZ6 Posts: 34
|
lol, dude lost some cred that a OEM chain only lasts 10k miles. I've got 30K on my OEM chain on my fz6. (it's probably due, but it's not in bad shape and last season the mechanic looked at it when I suggested a replacement and said it was fine.)
The holes in that rivet chain look frightening to me. He also failed to say hook the master link to the old chain so that you thread the new chain on as the old chain comes off. It's been years since I've done one of these. |
|
September 19th, 2017, 07:51 PM | #21 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
|
in the words of Andy Palmer, "stop using those damn bicycle chains." He was helping me weld my exhaust back together after a crash during race weekend, when someone came over to ask for help with his chain. Coming from a guy with that much experience, I will refrain from ever using anything other then a 520.
|
|
September 19th, 2017, 08:56 PM | #22 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bill
Location: Port Huron, Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Kawasaki 250 Ninja, 1982 Honda Ascot FT500 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Bill
__________________________________________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time. |
|
|
September 20th, 2017, 06:19 AM | #23 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
|
Quote:
You can actually find high quality 520 chains that are lighter than some 420 series chains. Some non-o ring motocross chains and the chains designed for 250gp bikes come to mind. I researched the weights and bought a DID ERT2 chain last year and it had noticeably less drag than a typical o ring chain. It did require more maintenance though. Plus the added benefit of not having to buy special sprockets. This is coming from someone who has been almost fanatical about saving weight off a racebike. Currently my Ninjette weighs about 285lb. |
|
|
September 24th, 2017, 08:19 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Greg
Location: San Antonio
Join Date: Dec 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, GSXR-750, Ducati M1100 Posts: 185
|
|
|
September 25th, 2017, 06:49 AM | #25 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Timm
Location: West Seneca, NY
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2006 1050 Speed Triple, 2010 250 Ninja racebike, YZF320RR? Racebike Posts: 556
MOTM - Nov '15
|
Most of it is cutting extraneous frame tabs off, cutting off the passenger part of the subframe. Race wiring harness, cut the dash apart and only using the tach, lightweight lithium-iron battery, removing the keyswitch and wiring directly to the killswitch, removing the mounting points for the keyswitch from the upper triple, oh, and the bracket for the seat: It's pretty heavy, so I removed it, cut off the ends that the seat hooks into, and bolted them back on. Aluminum captive spacers for the wheels, gas tank filler neck removed for dry break valve, aluminum bars, aluminum dogbones, airbox removed, rear inner fender removed and replaced with .020 carbon fiber sheet, Area P full exhaust, fork "brace" removed, rear brake reservoir removed, non-functional bodywork panels removed, exhaust mount bracket lightened (only the metal around the mount holes remains. I not only cut off the kickstand bracket, I also ground down much of the quarter inch thick area where it was welded on the frame.
Even the multi-adjustable rearsets didn't survive the diet unscathed. I located them where I wanted them and then made new locating subplates without all the extra holes and material. Basically, much of the weight savings will come from buying yourself a six pack of cutoff wheels and going to town! I've done all this while keeping reliability as the most important objective. We are doing 3 hour endurance races and can't really afford to spend much time in the pits fixing stuff and we've been pretty reliable. The only real mechanical issue we've had so far this year was due to me using bad gas. There are some things I would do if I were sprint racing the bike to make it even lighter (like removing the starter), going total-loss with the ignition and going to a smaller and lighter gas tank. |
|
September 25th, 2017, 10:46 AM | #26 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
|
Hey, good job on weight-reduction. I initially removed kickstand. Then cut off bracket, then noticed there's A LOT of metal behind it that's not needed. Starting cutting that off, and cut some more... and some more... There must've been at least 1.5-lbs of extra metal that can be removed behind kickstand bracket!
|
|
October 3rd, 2017, 08:30 AM | #27 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Indy
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 10
|
I forgot to update but I bought a 415 bicycle chain tool on amazon for $15 and cut the chain. The chain came with a clip link so that's what I used. Rode the bike around and did my first track day session on the chain. Definitely need to keep an eye on the stretch and wear along the chain. I will probably go back to a 520 chain when I need to change the chain. Its more peace of mind and less worrying about "Did I check the chain slack? or did I lube the chain?". Plus I just started doing track days and plan to go race only so until I get fast enough to qualify for MA junior cup I don't think I need to worry too much about the reciprocating mass difference between chains.
|
|
October 12th, 2017, 12:50 PM | #28 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Cameron
Location: Columbia MO
Join Date: Jul 2017 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300 Posts: 21
|
Quote:
So when it comes to buying masterlinks, I go for the same brand AND the link made for that chain. If it's a DID MVXZ chain, I would run the MVXZ link as well.
__________________________________________________
2013 Ninja 300 SuperBike 2014 Ninja 300 SuperSport Instagram: Cameronjones239 |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
415 chain conversion kit | aschika1 | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 57 | June 2nd, 2014 10:24 AM |
possible chain for 415 conversion people | subxero | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 8 | March 13th, 2014 06:36 AM |
Is 415 Chain Setup Better? | krolinked | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 1 | July 19th, 2012 05:40 PM |
415 chain conversion question | 675Raisinator | Ninjettes At Speed | 45 | April 17th, 2012 12:40 PM |
415 GP chain conversion | tim61 | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 13 | September 6th, 2011 01:19 PM |
Thread Tools | |
|
|