January 14th, 2009, 08:26 AM | #1 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
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Taking turns
Hey everyone!! It seems like when I am taking turns I always lean in a little too hard and end up having to straighten out when I get midway through the turn. I like carving corners but I don't do it at like 90mph. I'm thinking I need to roll on the throttle more as I hit the apex, but I'm not quite sure what I am doing wrong. It feels good going into the turn, just not good coming out. I try to follow my lines, high in - high out and hit the apex, but like I said I end up having to back off a little to keep from taking the corner too tight. Any suggestions? Besides go read a book...
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January 14th, 2009, 09:02 AM | #2 |
IC2(SW)
Name: Kerry
Location: Pensacola
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January 14th, 2009, 10:08 AM | #3 |
ninjette.org dude
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You may also be early-apexing a bit, turning in just a little earlier than you shoud, bringing you closer to the inside of the turn than you expected. Pushing the bars confidently will get you to the proper lean angle sooner than pressing them too gently, and getting to the proper lean angle sooner actually means that you will need less maximum lean angle for any given turn, and that's a good thing!
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January 14th, 2009, 12:37 PM | #4 |
Track Junkie
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yes, you should be rolling on the throttle around the apex. that will naturally begin to pick the bike up as you finish the rest of your turn.
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January 14th, 2009, 12:40 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org dude
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I tend to agree with you, but Keith Code just wrote up an article in Motorcyclist where he said that on a properly functioning sportbike, rolling on the throttle by itself while exiting a turn does nothing to lift the bike back up. His view is that riders are unconsciously providing bar pressure to lift the bike back up while they are also rolling on the throttle.
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January 14th, 2009, 12:48 PM | #6 |
Track Junkie
Name: Jon
Location: Dallas
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yeah, he might be right. physics say that the bike wants to stand up when its in motion. rolling on the throttle might not make a big enough difference to matter, but it will change your exit line at least. keep going the same speed and you'll just keep circling with no bar inputs. get on the gas and centrifugal force pushes your turn wider.... in theory anyways. i really don't know what i'm talking about
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January 14th, 2009, 02:21 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Yancy
Location: Redmond
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Practice!
I'd say, find a safe place and practice! Try different things and find what works for you...
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January 14th, 2009, 02:52 PM | #8 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
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Hey thanks guys!! I noticed it and I wanted to get rid of any bad habits before they started to become a problem. I talked to my boss (races go carts) and he said it sounds like I'm hitting the apex too early so I need to turn in a little later. I guess I just get so excited to get into the turn I forget what I'm supposed to do during it. Anyways, we'll see what happens. No riding for a while. Friday it's supposed to be 9 degrees. That's unheard of around here.
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January 14th, 2009, 02:59 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Yancy
Location: Redmond
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Yes, this is a book recommendation
Keith Code's Total Control changed my cornering forever. I didn't know what I was doing wrong till I read the book. Vastly improved my cornering. There's a great section on when to initiate the turn and how to hit the apex... Out of all the MC books out there, I think this is the best for cornering. |
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January 14th, 2009, 03:38 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sam
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Actually, you're getting the book and author mixed up. Lee Parks wrote "Total Control" and Keith Code wrote "Twist of the Wrist". I have Parks' book and want to get Keith Code's second book "Twist of the Wrist 2"
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January 14th, 2009, 03:52 PM | #11 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
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So which one has the good article on cornering then? I'm confused.
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January 14th, 2009, 03:53 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Yancy
Location: Redmond
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Your totally right... Lee Parks... He's the man! I haven't actually read "A Twist of the Wrist" yet. It's on my list of books to look for next time I go to Half Price Books...
Total Control is the book I was talking about. Just had the author wrong. Last futzed with by beowuff; January 14th, 2009 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Adding clarification for book recommendation. |
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January 14th, 2009, 04:21 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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TnNinjaGirl..Total Control by Lee Parks is the book you want for cornering. One of Park's 10 rules that he wants you to "engrain in the brain" ha ha, I just made that up, is always keep the center of your body on the inside of the turn. Between the bike and the turn. His principles apply whether you are on a Harley or a Ninja of any kind. Look for it used at http://www.alibris.com/
beowuff..Twist of the Wrist2 is Keith Code's best book, according to a review I saw. I don't have any of his books, yet. I'm leaning (no pun intended) toward Wrist2. The reviewer said Code didn't completely grasp what he was trying to convey to the reader in the original "Wrist", but really made up for it in Wrist2. Of course, everyone should read "Proficient Motorcycling" 2nd Edition by Hough, before any other book! |
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January 14th, 2009, 05:17 PM | #14 |
Track Junkie
Name: Jon
Location: Dallas
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twist of the wrist is pretty good, but if i remember right it might be a little advanced for novice street use.
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January 15th, 2009, 01:56 PM | #15 |
Akai Suisei - 赤い彗星
Name: Joseph
Location: socal
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If it feels like you're falling over in a turn, go faster. >:]
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January 16th, 2009, 09:14 PM | #16 |
BRKDWN.
Name: Jimi
Location: Knoxville, TN
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 89 GPX250R, 89 GPZ500S Posts: 126
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Step one: Don't follow my lines - they don't know where they're going.
I agree with Alex... definitely sounds like you're early apexing. Don't focus so much on leaning the bike. Just throttle smoothly through the turn. Let your speed dictate how much you lean, not the other way around. I like to practice on the 90 degree turn out in Hardin Valley. It's a nice, predictable turn with lots of room and visibility. There's a subdivision right down the road where you can turn around to hit it again the other way. |
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January 30th, 2009, 02:13 PM | #17 |
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i read twist of the wrist when it first came out, and it made me a much better rider instantly. countersteering especially made the difference for me, but other information such as how the bike's suspension works, to road conditions...all good stuff. it IS abit advanced for the early rider, but it definately changed the way i operated my motorcycle, and probably saved my life!
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January 30th, 2009, 04:07 PM | #18 |
IC2(SW)
Name: Kerry
Location: Pensacola
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January 30th, 2009, 08:57 PM | #19 |
Ramen Rider
Name: Gary
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
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i got a turning question as well...
how about a long left turn that tightens up later on? there is this one stretch of road that i rode. it is a two-lane road on a decline. it is a moderate arc that turns left, but halfway down the hill, unexpectedly tightened up. when i hit it that section of road, i was going at about 50-60 mph so i was afraid to get off of the throttle. my line was messed up and i was barely able to stay within my lane. i am just glad that there was no one in the lane next to me. are there any easy techniques for that sort of condition? thanks in advance. |
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January 30th, 2009, 09:11 PM | #20 |
Akai Suisei - 赤い彗星
Name: Joseph
Location: socal
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I always leave enough lean left in reserve for decreasing radius turns.
IMO, you shouldn't be going very fast coming into any given turn if you don't know what the whole turn is like or can't see it. Meaning, if a decreasing radius turn is coming up you should know it so you know not to be blasting through the first part of the turn only to meet the 2nd part of the turn and be in trouble. And if you don't know it's there, be going slow enough that you can just lean more when you hit the tighter part. There's a few of these on the road I ride. I know it well enough that I can carry decent speed through the first part and know when I need to brake a little to bleed off speed for the tighter part. But I took it very slow until I remembered. |
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January 30th, 2009, 09:30 PM | #21 |
Husband of Nijette Owner
Name: Doug
Location: Scotts Valley
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hang out by the white line a little longer and try to maintain a constant radius around the turn. I always try to stay a constant distance from the right hand edge of the road. Forget about apexing and just follow the road.
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January 30th, 2009, 11:35 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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was thinking about this and wanted to add that you might be fixating on the apex of the turn. we tend to go where we look, so you may wanna try looking through the turn. probably easier to do with corners you're familiar with of course, but this may be why you're coming in too...'steep'.
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February 4th, 2009, 11:26 PM | #23 |
Never enough time
Name: Mark
Location: San Mateo, CA
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Twist of the wrist II, get on the brakes later, get on the gas sooner, hang to the outside till you can see through the corner, tip it in and get on the gas
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February 24th, 2009, 10:19 AM | #24 | |
Giggity Giggity
Name: Ryam
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 ninja 250R aka Hiryu Posts: 481
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this may help
Quote:
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February 24th, 2009, 11:05 AM | #25 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Yancy
Location: Redmond
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 225
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Quote:
If you are on unfamiliar roads, slow down! If you find the road has fun curves when you've been on it a few times, THEN speed up. Better alive and slow then fast and dead... |
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February 24th, 2009, 12:26 PM | #26 |
Giggity Giggity
Name: Ryam
Location: San Diego
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+1 ^ Take the first run on an unfamiliar road easy to get used to the turns and also to check for road hazards. According to Kieth codes suggestions, he states to try and picture your favorite track or even road in your head and use different reference points etc. to see where you can make a change to improve time.
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February 24th, 2009, 06:47 PM | #27 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kris
Location: Willamette Valley
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 45
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Quote:
I had the same problem of hitting an apex too early. Although, I wasn't leaning in enough. If you view a corner, think of your lines, and try to go a little straighter, then make your turn a little later. (am I making sense? Maybe one of the other riders here can put it into a better perspective) This is where you can get a little more lean angle. Also, how are you leaning into the corner? Are you shifting your bottom to the inside, or are you shifting your upper body, or both? |
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February 24th, 2009, 11:35 PM | #28 |
Akai Suisei - 赤い彗星
Name: Joseph
Location: socal
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The thing about the 250 and corners is that you have to aim well. If you turn in too fast and find yourself drifting to the inside faster than you like, on a bigger bike you can just pick up the throttle a little bit and increase your corner speed to match. Not so much on the 250. You either hit your mark or you didn't. And if you didn't hit your mark, your drive is lost.
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February 24th, 2009, 11:38 PM | #29 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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I agree... and that's what makes the 250 such a great learning tool! excellent observations.
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February 25th, 2009, 12:29 AM | #30 |
============
Name: Nick
Location: Occoquan, VA
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250R Posts: 518
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I'm going to try lane positioning more. I usually find myself taking corners and choosing a line that is least likely to hit any gravel, even if there isnt any gravel in the road.
Another problem I have sometimes is taking sharp corners (about 90 degrees) too wide and getting too close to the edge of my lane before the turn is complete. |
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February 25th, 2009, 07:49 AM | #31 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Yancy
Location: Redmond
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: 225
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Quote:
1) Entering the corner too fast. 2) Not leaning the bike over enough. 3) Incorrect body position. Again, the books above might help you figure out what's going wrong and give good suggestions on how to correct it. |
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March 2nd, 2009, 07:28 AM | #32 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
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I feel kind of stupid... The problem wasn't my riding style, it was the shock preload. It was set on 1 from the factory and that's where it stayed. Until the other day that is. Set it on 3 and wow is she a different bike. Seems like all my turning problems are gone. Weird.
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March 2nd, 2009, 07:59 AM | #33 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kris
Location: Willamette Valley
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 45
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Yay! It's not you!
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March 2nd, 2009, 02:46 PM | #34 | |
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Quote:
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March 2nd, 2009, 02:51 PM | #35 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
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setting the rear shock to a higher number makes it stiffer and as a result raises the back end of the bike a bit. In doing that, the front end (forks) get steeper and that allows the bike to turn a bit quicker.
I'm assuming TNG was feeling like the bike wouldn't turn, so raising the rear end preload helped her bike turn quicker and resulted in it being a bit more responsive to rider input in the turns. |
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March 2nd, 2009, 03:27 PM | #36 |
Ms. Personality
Name: CB
Location: Murvill, TN
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.
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It feels alot less "sloshy" in the turns. It's like it'd sink down and I felt like I needed to correct it by leaning in the turn less. I can now enter and exit the turns more aggressively because my suspension isn't sinking in and it's staying tight and firm. I think...
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March 3rd, 2009, 05:11 PM | #37 | |
BRKDWN.
Name: Jimi
Location: Knoxville, TN
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 89 GPX250R, 89 GPZ500S Posts: 126
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Quote:
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July 25th, 2012, 05:29 PM | #38 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Malinda
Location: Jonesboro, LA
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 484
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Taking curves with gravel
I have read the posts and I do not have a lot of experience I was practicing my curves (getting much better ) and on my last semi-tight curve BAM! gravel -- I kept looking ahead and hoped for the best, but I really was not too sure at the moment if I was going to make it. I knew brakes would have been a major NO, I just eased off the throttle a hair and passed thru the gravel then went on my way -- I was not going fast since I am new with curves and I know later I will be going faster than 35 (I know I have to go faster), what do you do when you are going faster with gravel?
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July 25th, 2012, 08:44 PM | #39 |
Rambling Madman
Name: Scott
Location: Calgary, Canada
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Does your foot pressure go light on the outside peg?
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July 28th, 2012, 10:00 AM | #40 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Malinda
Location: Jonesboro, LA
Join Date: Jul 2012 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Posts: 484
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I don't think so, but remember I am new at this so I am not too sure what this has to do with it. I am not trying to be a smart*&* about it, I am just don't understand, so please do not be offended.
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