June 4th, 2011, 09:44 AM | #1 |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
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Track vs. Canyon riding
Did anyone find that riding the canyons / twisties has lost a bit of its luster after your first track experience?
Two weeks ago I completed my first trackday/advanced riding school and today I did my first canyon run of the year and found it to be, well, boring. Before my track experience, the canyons were all "edgy" and challenging, now they are a place where I think it is a bad idea to wick it up a little due to cars, gravel, etc......... Am I becoming a track junkie in the making Jeff
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June 4th, 2011, 09:48 AM | #2 |
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June 4th, 2011, 10:31 AM | #3 |
wat
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so i'm curious if there's a cheaper alternative to the typical $150-250ish track day+track school you always see?
edit: hmm i should have made a new topic.
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June 4th, 2011, 10:59 AM | #4 |
Oldie but a goodie
Name: David
Location: Aurora, CO
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I have been riding track and/or racing since 2004 and I still love me some canyons.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75251 |
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June 4th, 2011, 12:04 PM | #5 |
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I felt the same way, actually. I used to ride canyons every weekend, usually racking up a good 150, maybe 250 miles of just riding around the local mountains. But after I did my first track day, I instantly lost any and all interest in any sort of performance riding on the street.
It just feels so stupid, reckless, and cramped to me now, and it's hard to go back to canyons to get my kicks when I know how much more satisfying it is on the track. Being able to open it up and ride to the extent of my and my bike's limits without stupid mountains blocking my sight lines, extremely limited space, no reassuring run off, and or potential hazards/paint/oncoming traffic spoiled me. And having a lap timer to track every second of improvement I can muster makes it even more palpably fulfilling. Every now and again I'll hit a canyon anyways just for the sake of riding, but when I do I tend to lean more towards speed limit and prefer really easy, pleasant cruises and exploring, opposed to tight, blind cliffs and edge of my seat type riding. On a positive note, there's a good chance you'll live longer this way. So it's all for the best- even if riding will now end up being even MORE expensive a hobby. Welcome to the even worse addiction within the addiction |
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June 4th, 2011, 01:24 PM | #6 |
Name: ...
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The OP has a very intriguing initial post. I find that canyons are rarely boring if I ride them for an appropriate reason. If someone wanted to race (and I mean truly race) in the canyons, most would consider that inappropriate. If I want to enjoy a road with many turns and some nice terrain then a canyon usually presents me with a delightful ride. Perhaps with some experience in a track day environment the OP will begin to use the canyon rides as an uplifting activity and enhance the general motoring experience for everyone (on 2,3,4, or 6 wheels). I have found that learning how to ride quickly is best done in a controlled environment like a track day (though some are pretty crazed) and gaining enjoyment from a ride can frequently be had in a lovely space such as canyons. Much of the differentiation between the two comes from my accumulated seat time as a rider...
I heard this recently, "I did 34 track days last year and I'm gonna do more this year. I don't ride on the street anymore." Perhaps that speaker didn't really want to get around on two wheels, they wanted to race. Two wheel motoring doesn't need to be boring to be safe nor does it need to be white knuckle time to be energizing. There is a very large area in between that is worth exploring and that is where I try to spend most of my time. If a person's joy is the edge, I don't believe even track days are going to get it. |
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June 4th, 2011, 03:05 PM | #7 |
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The only thing better than a trackday is a race day. It seems you go even faster.
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June 4th, 2011, 05:42 PM | #8 |
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Two totally different things. Track is for honing the skills and going fast legally. Canyon riding is to be out in the world, riding with other riders, and enjoy your bike.
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June 5th, 2011, 08:56 AM | #9 | |
Mr. 988
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Quote:
The track is definitely my preferred place to hang it out now.
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June 5th, 2011, 10:02 AM | #10 |
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I won't be doing a track day until next year, unfortunately, so I can't answer the question honestly. Though I am pretty sure I will still enjoy riding my local back roads. It may feel different, but I couldn't see not enjoying it. I ride my wife's TU all the time, and it just feels different than my ZX. I imagine track days will feel like adrenaline-pumping experiences, and street rides will feel like nice, relaxing strolls. Just different.
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June 5th, 2011, 11:17 AM | #11 | |
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June 5th, 2011, 12:16 PM | #12 |
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i love the track. it is the only place for that level of riding. It doesnt mean i wont ride on the street, just not with the same goal or purpose of pushing myself or my bike.
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June 6th, 2011, 07:55 AM | #13 | |
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Quote:
Could not have said it better.
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June 6th, 2011, 08:56 AM | #14 | |
Mr. 988
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Quote:
I think the main thing that bugged me in the canyons vs. the track was that I now really notice the lack of sight lines in the mountains (That and the BMW that was crowding the centerline on a right hand sweeper ). The track has a great advantage in that regard and can really spoil a rider. Jeff
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June 6th, 2011, 12:36 PM | #15 |
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In many ways, track riding is much easier IMO,
-most tracks do not have blind corners, -no driveways on either side that may have traffic pull onto the pavement, -less chances of wild life venturing onto the pavement, -no traffic traveling the opposite direction. |
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June 7th, 2011, 03:17 PM | #16 |
Smoker
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No.
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June 7th, 2011, 05:06 PM | #17 |
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June 7th, 2011, 05:23 PM | #18 | |
Mr. 988
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I think Bob was referencing my original question.
Quote:
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June 7th, 2011, 08:52 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
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Street riding is lame (but still fun) after you ride at the limit on the track. Your not alone in feeling this way.
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June 8th, 2011, 07:48 AM | #20 |
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Street riding is for Harleys!
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June 8th, 2011, 07:48 AM | #21 | |
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Quote:
Racing > Track riding > Street.
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June 8th, 2011, 08:42 AM | #22 |
Smoker
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That was an answer to the original question.
Personally, after doing some track time, I find myself enjoying the canyons more, since I know exactly how much faster I could take the roads if I chose to do so. Instead, I put along at the speed limit (55 in most places) and just enjoy the freedom of being in hte wind on 2 wheels. It's kind of liberating actually. |
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June 8th, 2011, 03:35 PM | #23 |
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June 8th, 2011, 04:03 PM | #24 | |
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Quote:
Buy the ticket, take the ride. The cost of extreme excitment can be steep.
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If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! |
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June 8th, 2011, 04:44 PM | #25 |
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June 8th, 2011, 05:02 PM | #26 |
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The calculations aren't necessary, to show that cost per mile will be orders of magnitude more expensive on the track than on the road. Entry cost per day, much higher tire wear, much faster wear of other components, higher likelihood (per mile, IMO) of putting the bike on the ground, though it's safer to do so there than anywhere else.
But - a single lap on track is that much more entertaining, exciting, and ultimately rewarding than 2 or 3 miles on the road. It truly is. I can understand when people completely transition to track-only riding. It didn't work for me, and I continue to enjoy street riding as well as the occasional trackday. I wouldn't urge anyone to avoid the latter just by doing the rote cost/per mile stat though, it won't provide a satisfying or ultimately useful answer.
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June 8th, 2011, 05:42 PM | #27 |
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YEP, worth every penny.
Going to the track this weekend.
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June 9th, 2011, 06:38 AM | #28 |
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Ten years of calculations at the track (AAMRR, WERA, Championship Cup, AMA), PRICELESS!
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June 9th, 2011, 07:43 AM | #29 |
CVMA/AFM #72
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June 9th, 2011, 08:40 AM | #30 |
Smoker
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There are probably people who have. But to my mind, the cost of the track day is far cheaper than the cost of riding like you would on a track, except doing it on the street, and crashing. Motorcycling overall is an expensive habit track days or no.
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June 9th, 2011, 12:13 PM | #31 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Personally, I never consider crashing as an option, if you factor that into your riding, likelihood of crash will go down. |
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June 9th, 2011, 02:20 PM | #32 | ||
ninjette.org sage
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Quote:
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June 9th, 2011, 03:30 PM | #33 | |
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If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! |
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June 9th, 2011, 03:42 PM | #34 |
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I don't like to be normal.
My question to you was a simple question that could be answered by yes or no.. yet you keep avoiding to answer. I've done my calculations, I find that track days and race days are not worthwhile for the amount of time that one actually is riding on the track is far less practical than practicing in a controlled environment. |
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June 9th, 2011, 03:57 PM | #35 | ||
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Quote:
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June 9th, 2011, 04:00 PM | #36 | |
ninjette.org sage
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Quote:
I think for the people who wish to spend their money on track days and racing, it is worth it to them, and that is all that matters. I mean let's face facts. We really only need food, water, shelter, and clothing. Anything else is excess.
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June 9th, 2011, 04:01 PM | #37 | |
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Besides, if you add in sponorship and prize money, it can be very rewarding, if not profitable. So a simple yes or no doesn't address the many variables involved.
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If everything seems under control; you're just not going fast enough! Last futzed with by CC Cowboy; June 12th, 2011 at 01:01 PM. |
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June 9th, 2011, 06:43 PM | #38 | ||||
vampire
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Quote:
Quote:
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I've experience more track time than most and I find the experience is over-rated. People who can afford it more than likely don't want to make their money seem wasted for impractical activity as such. Quote:
So, how much sponsorship and prize money have you generated vs your own money output to ride/race on the track? |
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June 9th, 2011, 09:25 PM | #39 | |
Mr. 988
Name: Jeff
Location: Sandy, Utah
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June 10th, 2011, 12:41 AM | #40 |
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Amazing
Parking lots are a great place to practice. But, finding a deserted, huge, high quality asphalt, no bumps, no dirt, no painted lines parking lot, is well... difficult? At least here it is. My country is too small I have not found one yet that fulfills 3/6 conditions. If I could find one, I am sure I would spend a lot of my time there. Roads can be fun, but conditions are as hard to satisfy as they are for the parking lot. Single lane, tourist season, a bloody caravan every 200 meters. Agitated people, dirt on the road, blocked view, a nice cliff on the side to drop from... Here is how I see it: track: entry fee: ~$50 per day (probably a single thing that is cheaper here ) tire wear: ~ x10 gasoline: ~ x1,5 kilometers spent having fun: 90% probability of an accident: ~ 0,3% per km (haven't crashed yet, this is an assumption) professional medical aid: ~ within a minute road: entry fee: ~ $300 per year tire wear: ~ x1 gasoline: ~ x1 kilometers spent having fun: ~ 10% probability of an accident : ~ 0,01 % per km (personal statistic) professional medical aid; ~ within 10-60 minutes, assuming that alarm is raised the moment I crash |
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