September 21st, 2011, 11:17 PM | #81 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
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Fantastic! Can I borrow some money?
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September 21st, 2011, 11:28 PM | #82 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Aaron
Location: Gone riding.
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I wouldnt want it to get in the way of our relationship
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September 25th, 2011, 09:52 PM | #83 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Aaron
Location: Gone riding.
Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 389
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Tequillas is one hell of a drug.
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September 26th, 2011, 12:20 AM | #84 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Stefan
Location: Riverhead, Long Island, New York
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250, Totally black. Gsxr 600 Red. Posts: 179
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Quote:
Verb: (of a person) Guide or control the movement of (a vehicle, vessel, or aircraft). Sounds like steering to me, If you read back further, you would see that I explain countersteering. However, countersteering is still a means of steering a bike. |
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September 26th, 2011, 12:23 AM | #85 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Stefan
Location: Riverhead, Long Island, New York
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2000 Ninja 250, Totally black. Gsxr 600 Red. Posts: 179
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Quote:
steer/sti(ə)r/ Verb: (of a person) Guide or control the movement of (a vehicle, vessel, or aircraft). |
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September 26th, 2011, 06:49 AM | #86 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Bill
Location: NC
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: 282
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Here is the MSF "You and your motorcycle riding tips" page 18 of the
publication: "When you are riding along the road, you lean a motorcycle into a turn. Learning to lean is an essential part of riding a motorcycle. It is a normal function of the bike when you are changing its path of travel – and quite, quite different from turning the steering wheel of your car. To get the motorcycle to lean in a normal turn, press the handlebar in the direction of the turn and maintain slight pressure on that handlebar to take you smoothly through that particular turn. In other words: press the right handgrip to go right; press the left handgrip to go left. Your instincts to keep the motorcycle on a smooth path while keeping it from falling over usually take care of this without you even noticing it. (Demonstrate to yourself how a motorcycle moves by pressing a handlebar slightly while traveling in a straight line. The motorcycle will move in the direction of the handlebar you pushed.) Slow down before you enter the turn; look as far ahead as possible through the turn. Keep your feet on the pegs, and grip the gas tank with your knees. Lean with the motorcycle; don’t try to sit perpendicular to the road while the motorcycle is leaning over. Keep an even throttle through the turn, or even accelerate a little bit". |
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May 1st, 2012, 10:36 AM | #87 |
One Loyal Fox
Name: Rahul
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250R (RIP), 2011 ZX-6R Posts: 869
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle...cycle_dynamics
yes, yes, it's wikipedia, i know, but it does help understand the basics. it gives a brief physics based explanation of dynamics. towards the end, it mentions that more or less, on heavy bikes (i.e. motorcycles), the affect of rider body position at speed is greatly diminished: "effectiveness of rider lean varies inversely with the mass of the bike." This is due to the increase of the gyroscopic force -among other things - from the wheels and overall bike geometry. It is why you can completely manhandle pedal bikes and why "i can ride a bike with no handlebars, no handlebars..." They are very light compared to our body weight, so our lean greatly overpowers any physics forces created from the bike itself. This does not carry over to motorcycles, especially when traveling at moderate road speeds. Even the Ninjette..it weighs double, or even triple of what you weigh, and goes much faster than a pedal bike (duh!). Holding the tank and leaning your body MAY move the bike a bit at lower speeds, but the only way to reliably get the bike to change directions is to create a torque on the front wheel (via handlebars) to alter the gyroscopic effect and get the bike turning. This is why countersteering is a MUST. This is also why after a certain speed (a few MPH) you can't pull the handlebar in towards you to make direct turns. The gyroscopic forces will cause you to wreck if you pull the handlebars instead of pushing in the direction you want to lean. Hope this made sense. |
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May 1st, 2012, 10:42 AM | #88 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Apr '13
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You are 7 months too late with that response
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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May 1st, 2012, 11:11 AM | #89 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
Location: Middle TN
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250r (sold) / '03 CBR 600RR Posts: A lot.
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+1 |
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May 1st, 2012, 11:43 AM | #90 |
One Loyal Fox
Name: Rahul
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250R (RIP), 2011 ZX-6R Posts: 869
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lol i know. it just made me feel like i was doing work while at work because i dont have actual work to work on.
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May 1st, 2012, 12:15 PM | #91 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Apr '13
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Finally you got an avatar, I hate people without an avatar
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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May 1st, 2012, 12:19 PM | #92 |
KThanksBye
Name: Kevin
Location: Orange County
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 zx636r Posts: A lot.
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me too!
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May 1st, 2012, 12:21 PM | #93 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Apr '13
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I also hate people that don't capitalize their name, lazy ****s
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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May 1st, 2012, 12:34 PM | #94 |
One Loyal Fox
Name: Rahul
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250R (RIP), 2011 ZX-6R Posts: 869
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It took me forever. At first I didn't feel like editing a picture to make it small enough. Then I just didn't give a fux. But I feel a bit more "at home" on the forum so I said, why nots!
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May 1st, 2012, 12:37 PM | #95 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Apr '13
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dude it auto edits it for you lmfao
__________________________________________________
If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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May 1st, 2012, 12:40 PM | #96 |
One Loyal Fox
Name: Rahul
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250R (RIP), 2011 ZX-6R Posts: 869
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I know but I feel bad when the *'s show up haha. I don't curse much in person either, only when playing PS3 really, boy does that make me mad sometimes haha.
edit: well now i feel stupid too, you were talking about the picture. but last time I tried, the picture would show up in the upload area, but it wouldn't appear under my name for some reason. that's part of the reason I didn't bother. |
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May 1st, 2012, 12:45 PM | #97 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
Name: Sean
Location: San Jose, Ca
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 K1300S, 2013 Ninja 300, 2011 Ninja 250R, Faster than Unregistered's ninjette Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 1
MOTM - Apr '13
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Well that makes sense, going into paint and hitting sketch/skew takes a good 15 seconds. Anyway glad you got on top of it. Now make a cool gif avatar!
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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May 1st, 2012, 12:50 PM | #98 |
One Loyal Fox
Name: Rahul
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250R (RIP), 2011 ZX-6R Posts: 869
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if i had someone to take pictures for me, i would make a gif of me eating that guard rail. mmm mm it was tasty.
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May 1st, 2012, 01:54 PM | #99 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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May 1st, 2012, 02:22 PM | #100 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jason
Location: Chicago
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250R Posts: 156
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Even though you guys revived an old thread
I'm glad this thread got bumped because there's some interesting discussion here.
This explanation finally helped me understand countersteering (I'm a newbie yet to take the MSF course). Thanks LazinCajun! Quote:
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May 1st, 2012, 02:37 PM | #101 |
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
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wow I hadnt read through this before...
i shook my head a lot.
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May 1st, 2012, 03:15 PM | #102 |
One Loyal Fox
Name: Rahul
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Ninja 250R (RIP), 2011 ZX-6R Posts: 869
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May 1st, 2012, 08:15 PM | #103 | |
Ate his own face. Twice.
Name: John
Location: Durham
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2009 KLR650 Posts: 109
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Quote:
Anyway counter steering is how EVERYONE turns a bike. People who say they don't do it either aren't turning their bikes very much or don't know they're doing it. I highly suggest twist of the wrist 2, I learned more from this DVD than I did in MSF.
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May 2nd, 2012, 01:22 PM | #104 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Wes
Location: Sumter SC
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 650r 2009 Vulcan 800 2005 Posts: 557
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Despite all the physics involved, I explain countersteering like this... If you want to make a motorcycle turn, you gotta lean. Sure, at a low speed you can move your body to make it lean, but at higher speeds the gyro effect of the wheels will overcome your weight hanging off the side of the bike. So the solution is to make the bike WANT to lean. Since the tires are the only part touching the road, they are the only part that can be FORCED to move left or right. For a high speed right turn, you twitch the handlebars to the left. This causes the front wheel to shoot over to the left... out from under you. Since most of the mass of the bike (including you) is up high, you tend to stay in the same place (left to right). The result is that the bike is nearly instantly leaning to the right. Take a moment and picture this.. you pulled the tires to the left, the top stayed in the same place, it's gotta be leaning. Once you achieve the correct lean angle, you let the handlebars go "neutral". The bike will maintain it's current lean. When finished with the turn, you gotta make it stand up again. Do this by steering into the turn. This will in effect drive the wheels directly under the center of gravity of the bike, undoing the lean.
Wanna see this in action? Stand a yardstick vertical in the palm of your hand. I you want to move right, you have to make the yard stick lean to the right.... and you do that by twitching your hand to the left, causing it to start to fall. You and it move to the right. When you are ready to stop moving, you have to rush your and under the yardstick to make the bottom catch up to the top. Once it is vertical again, you can stop it moving to the right. Yardstick too fast to see this??? try an 8 foot 2x4!! |
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May 2nd, 2012, 03:26 PM | #105 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jon
Location: Newark, De
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2003 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Great info. Found that i already do it, but good to remember.
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May 2nd, 2012, 03:46 PM | #106 |
CBR250R Traitor
Name: Jon
Location: Greater Philadelphia Area
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Red CBR250R 2009 Ninja 250r SE(With 2008 Fairings)(sold) Posts: 924
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I don't think about countersteering ever. I do it so I can turn. My brain does it w/o me even thinking. Generally I don't put a lot of thought into basic functioning of the bike. I focus more on the road in front of me.
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May 2nd, 2012, 06:30 PM | #107 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.
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Funny that this still comes up, but I like the yardstick example... it's really easy for people to visualize without other-thinking it.
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May 10th, 2012, 05:03 AM | #108 |
Ate his own face. Twice.
Name: John
Location: Durham
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r, 2009 KLR650 Posts: 109
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWH_QiXw5n4&t=4m15s
know this is a little late but only just found this on youtube
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June 8th, 2012, 11:35 PM | #109 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Pshyk
Location: Fairbanks,AK
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2012-250R Posts: 202
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nice... =D
read the whole thing... im new to riding and honestly thats what i thought that i could just lean and do that but the whole lag while switching lanes and that i do that but i guess all i can do is practice... im still trying to do the knee on the ground thing but ill hit a turn then ill just feel my sack retract into my stomach... |
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June 9th, 2012, 06:29 PM | #110 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tim
Location: Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 HD Street BOB 2010 HD Roadglide Posts: 64
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Quote:
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June 10th, 2012, 01:24 AM | #111 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 5
MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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you should never be "trying" to get your knee down. its a side effect of being leaned over all the way. "trying" to get your knee down means you are probably riding crossed up. if you want better riding posture, work on getting your face low enough to drag on the ground. ( <-- it sounds like i'm kidding but i'm not )
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June 10th, 2012, 01:33 PM | #112 |
#squid
Name: nickypoo
Location: Five Guys
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jul '16
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I counter steer when I need to. It naturally comes to you. This is what I've learned
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June 10th, 2012, 02:49 PM | #113 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bob
Location: CA
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 Ninja 250r, '14 CBR500r Posts: A lot.
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When I started riding in '08, I found that counter-steering was very easy to pickup with very little effort or focus.
Although, now that I think about it, everything was practice, so I was more intentional about EVERYTHING to learn and maintain proper technique. I used to say, "outside-inside-outside" to myself when I setup turns, etc. However, I do remember a trip down from Tahoe when my arms where starting to get a little fatigued. Then I learned to lean and get out of my seat when I was more aggressive, and found I could have significantly more stamina. When I started I was pretty much planted, and it was all counter-steering. I remember the ride home from the dealer (first ever). I had heard of counter-steering in the months before, but only because I was doing forum research online for months prior. I asked the dealer how to turn, and he just said, "lean." I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that, because I think he just didn't want to confuse/overwhelm a newbie, and knew I would do it anyway unintentionally. On the way home I was on a good straight road and thought I would do my own little 'myth buster' experiment on the counter-steering. Just the slightest push, and my bike started to lean in that direction. "HOLY #%#%#@$^," I thought. "THIS STUFF IS REAL." Myth = confirmed.
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Honda Interceptor VFR800 DLX (2014, 8th gen) Honda CBR500r (2014) - FOR SALE Kawi Ninja 250r (2008) - Restored and passed-down within family, only to be abandoned |
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June 10th, 2012, 03:18 PM | #114 |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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note that front wheel control with a spinning rear tire is very different from calm street bike thats no where close to the edge of traction. when your rear wheel is spinning up, throttle control has about as much impact on turning the bike as the bars do.
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June 10th, 2012, 04:46 PM | #115 |
#squid
Name: nickypoo
Location: Five Guys
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jul '16
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I think I know what you mean. On my bike...when ever the rear comes sliding out (best feeling in the world) if you put more throttle, it slides out more...you most likely know this lol I'm pretty sure it's similar on pavement. At least that's what it seems like on WSB and MotoGP lol
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June 10th, 2012, 04:59 PM | #116 | |
wat
Name: wat
Location: tustin/long beach
Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much.
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MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14
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Quote:
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June 11th, 2012, 04:58 AM | #117 | |
Ninja chick
Name: Allyson
Location: Athens, GA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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Sometimes it's the journey that teaches you a lot about your destination. ~Drake Check out my Appalachian Trail journal, 2015! Postwhores are COOL! ~Allyson |
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June 11th, 2012, 06:18 AM | #118 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Salim
Location: Philadelphia
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2005 SV650S Posts: 195
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What I learned at MSF was just push in the direction you want to go, and bike leans that way, roll on throttle, keep your head looking where you want to go.
I was going nuts the first day with the countersteer "press" directions. I was like wtf is press on the handlebars they are staying stationary. I was confusing press with gripping down on them too hard. By that time I was told to sit on the bike and act like I have a string in my hands about the width of the handle bars. By press meaning actually move your hands to the side you want to go,making the bike lean over. |
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June 11th, 2012, 10:03 AM | #120 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jen
Location: NYC
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Kawasaki Ninja 250 Special Edition Posts: 95
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I just loled. I love discussing countersteer but there's no point in repeating what has clearly been explained and re-explained in different words by pretty much everyone on here haha. And YES, ITS REAL!!
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