December 26th, 2011, 11:16 PM | #601 |
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Is someone disputing that this government is not being strongly influence by Keynesian economics?
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December 27th, 2011, 07:10 AM | #602 | |
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For those that lean left....this seems to be impossible and for the life of me I cant understand why? If they ran their household budget like the fed they would all be bankrupt. That doesnt seem to sink in for some crazy reason.
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December 27th, 2011, 08:22 AM | #603 |
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December 27th, 2011, 08:32 AM | #604 | |
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Oh yeah......thats right.....they were cutting taxes by voting to extend the bush tax cuts. As if that was somehow a tax cut. And here we are again with you now refering to the fictional subset of taxpayers at 1 million dollars. Were they trying to create a new tax bracket??? Please post the HR number for this proposal. Not an article from a reporter, but the HR number of this proposal in the house. You say its out there. Prove it. I looked briefly for it, couldnt find it.
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December 27th, 2011, 11:35 AM | #605 |
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you guys should check this book out. While there are reasons to be mad at corporations like OWS is. Take a look at your congress as well....
http://www.amazon.com/Throw-Them-All...5010792&sr=1-1 I got it for Christmas. Ill let you all know how it is.
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December 27th, 2011, 12:00 PM | #606 | |
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December 27th, 2011, 12:01 PM | #607 |
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lol My wife is pretty awesome. It was on my amazon wish list though lol
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December 27th, 2011, 02:15 PM | #608 | |||||||
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We have a deficit problem. Not solved by revenue without spending cuts, not solved by spending cuts without revenue. Quote:
Check out S.1917, which proposed the >$1M bracket at 3.25%. And then S.1944, which was similar, but at 1.9% > $1M instead. The facts aren't on your side, bubkis, no matter how often you repeat your poorly researched lies. I know you won't even click the links, or understand them if you do, but I'll give the rest of your readers the benefit of the doubt.
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December 27th, 2011, 10:09 PM | #609 | |||||
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http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...irk_09-24.html Although I hate to admit it. I am full of crap... here I was thinking I was not full of crap. And as it turns out, I am. That is, indeed a fact. It was only 56 seats. BTW I fixed your quote for you. All the name calling is "beneath you". But its nice to be noticed. Quote:
And none of them explain away the way the democrats voted. Nor why the proposed tax increases on the "rich" were not pushed thru when they had the muscle. Quote:
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How did that happen? That nice of ya
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December 27th, 2011, 10:24 PM | #610 |
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That's pretty pathetic Alex. Personal insults and attacks, because you disagree with someone?
And by the way, the two bills that you linked to are bills to create tax brackets, and raise taxes on certain classes of people. While you can repeat the same old line about it just being an expiration of Bush Tax Cuts, that is not what it is. As for the 84%, call it whatever percent you want to. The point was and still is that Obama is spending, and continues to spend, and we have little if anything to show for it. As for revenue increases, the Bush Tax Cuts (specifically, the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003) showed that income tax paid by households earning $1million or more doubled from 2003 to 2006 (as stated in the Wall Street Journal). Also, the percent of total revenue paid by the upper income brackets increased, while the percent at the mid and lower levels decreased. |
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December 28th, 2011, 09:22 AM | #611 | ||
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Its ok revstriker, I can take a little childish namecalling. I dont mind him playing teacher and correcting the spelling mistakes in my posts. None of it takes away from the content that he and others choose to ignore. All while being led down the primrose path by the democrat party. The fact that 43 democrats in the senate and 139 democrats in the house voted for the bush tax cuts to remain in H.R. 4853 is not disputed.
We got the "its the republicans fault" and the fact that they could "filibuster" any legislation line. As if somehow, that explains why the vote was very lopsided in favor of the very tax cuts that are now opposed by the democrats. Interestingly enough I did get a couple senate proposals out of him, proposals that were submitted after the democrats lost the house in historic fashion and have no chance of getting anywhere. Thats why I dont talk about proposals. I like to talk about real bills. The fact that the senate proposed a tax increase means nothing. Its merely grandstanding and positioning for the masses and democrat ideology. If the democrats really wanted tax increases why didnt they propose them when they had all 3 branches? They did in fact have a filibuster proof majority (for quite some time) that could have rammed them home. It didnt happen. Why??? They are only interested in talking about tax increases to further the class warfare montra. Its all a smokescreen as stated before. The democrats have a plan of attack .... Talk about "taxing the rich" but not about spending. There is plenty of ammo out there to fire at the republicans when it comes to the spending argument. The lord knows speaker Boner is indeed a spender and is in no way conservative. So why dont we talk about spending? Ill tell you why...As you know (revstriker) the democrats record on spending is abysmal at best. Yes..... abysmal - 1. of or like an abyss ; immeasurably deep or great. 2. extremely or hopelessly bad or severe. So at all costs and by any means necessary divert the conversation. I have talked about it in this very thread, I used a credible source (according to alex) for my numbers, I used numbers posted by Alex himself. You know what I got as a response? Quote:
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Alex is indeed in a political conversation and hes calling someone who disagrees with him a dolt, sack of illiterate dogmeat, illiterate hick, bubkis, and a tired, useless hack. A T.O.S. violation, IDK? Does it matter? Who is there to report it too? Its hard to accept the fact that you are wrong. Its even harder to admit it. I have come to accept the fact that Alex wont admit he was wrong. Its all good. Hes a cherry picker and the very same thing he accused me of being. A hack. Hes just like the rest of the democrats although he is a little better at holding his tounge, up until post #608 Diversion is his game when the facts dont line up with the party line. Ill talk about X when the subject is Y. Then Ill call the original poster names and correct his grammer and spelling to make it look like hes wrong. Something that used to be frowned upon here. None of it takes away from the true argument, but it sure is entertaining. Im well aware that there is no way you will ever get a democrat to admit that their party is wrong. They are so engrained in the ideology that it becomes blinding. Class warefare is indeed the democrat ideology because its the only way back to the white house for obama. He cant talk about his record, (abysmal) he cant talk about obamacare. (wildly unpopular) Whats does that leave for the democrats to run on??
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December 28th, 2011, 10:03 AM | #612 |
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Is spellcheck really that hard? Just reading your posts continues to be headache-inducing.
I pointed out the false numbers you used back then, because, wait for it, you used false numbers. You stated then that you were using my numbers, but you weren't. Check 'em back and read them slowly. You posted and agreed with the same false data that kyrider used, as it came from the same small-brained blog which bungled the math. You've said the 3% surtax proposal didn't exist, and railed against people by calling it fictional, yet when pointed to the Senate proposal, you change your mind to saying anything proposed in the Senate doesn't exist because it won't pass. You can stand here all day long and rail on "I don't like this, and I wish we spent less, and I wish the government was smaller, and I wish wishes were puppies", and it would be all good. What is terribly tedious is that while your posts are littered with bad data ostensibly supporting your misguided views, the prior post is the first in 600 posts in this thread where you finally admitted that your facts aren't exactly that, on even the most minor of details, until you get called on them several posts in row and you actually read (and check the dates) on the sources you copy from. Disagreeing with your premise, your "facts", and your delivery isn't a diversion, it's just pointing out the obvious to anyone who you haven't already driven from this area.
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December 28th, 2011, 11:16 AM | #613 | |||
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Sure thing, clearly the talking heads will do the same, as who really needs the math to be correct anyhow? Quote:
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A little more analysis does show some trends, even from the 2003 - 2006 time period, though. Tables 5 & 6 are the most interesting, especially along the .1% lines, and 1% lines. From 2003 - 2006, the top 1% went from earning 16.77% of the total US AGI, to 22.06% of the total. Which in and of itself is a 31% increase in income compared to the rest of the population. While their share of income tax paid (table 6), went from 34.27% to 39.89% over the same time period. Which is only a 16% increase in that share. Income compared to the rest of the population went up alot, share of income tax paid did not go up anywhere near correspondingly. The numbers are just as clear at the .1% level: (7.57% to 11.22%, for a 48% increase in income, while tax share went from 15.68% to 19.56%, for only a 24% increase in that share).
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December 28th, 2011, 11:56 AM | #614 | ||||||||
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10.632T - 5.176 T is just over 5 trillion or 5.456T not under as I stated. You could have corrected that at the time, but it still didnt help your argument so instead of correcting a minor mistake on my part you dismissed the whole argument as having no merit and stated Which was not true. I posted your numbers And apparently so did you. I did use your numbers. By a whopping .2 trillion in my rough comparison due to my use of the term under and not over. Thats less than this administration spent in the past 3 months. Did that change the argument?? No. As of Dec 27, 2011 Obama is asking to raise the debt limit again to 16.39T because we are at or near the limit of 15.194T. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7BQ0KU20111227 But lets not talk about spending lets only talk about raising taxes. Quote:
Where are the bills?? in the 111th or 112th congress? Quote:
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All the usual suspects are here. Who doesnt want to watch a "trainwreck"?
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December 28th, 2011, 12:20 PM | #615 | ||||
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You didn't want quotes from reporters, so you were given direct links to two recent Senate proposals. You now call them smokescreens, and are looking for corresponding legislation in the house before calling it real (which it never got to in 2011 this time around, while it did during the last excitement at the end of 2010).
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December 28th, 2011, 12:56 PM | #616 |
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In response to the above......
Link to original page on YouTube. |
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December 28th, 2011, 05:01 PM | #617 | |
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Alex points out and backs up all of his arguments with links, something I've yet to see from almost40 and revstriker. Although I'm not to keen on using the Taxfoundation's data. They may claim to be non partisan but I've seen some questionable reports. Whether Alex's links are good is not my job to validate since I share his viewpoint, it's the opposite side who should be examining it. I heard something about almost40 having facts but I didn't see any links. I guess they're made of thin air. It's fun to note we didnt even begin to distinguish marginal and effective tax rates yet. Another fun note is we've deviated talking about the 1%, the part that even millionaires arent in, who should be taxes first at least. This is due to the conservative propaganda that lumps those 1% down there with those millionaires. With regards to spending, do you mean how the stimulus did work? |
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December 28th, 2011, 05:38 PM | #618 | |
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December 28th, 2011, 06:28 PM | #619 | |
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As for backing things up with data, the information is out there for anyone to look up. While Alex can play the spelling and grammar Nazi, and try to turn a discussion about increased spending into whether a number is 5.716 or 5.176, none of this changes the point of the discussion. Spending and debt has increased, and is increasing. |
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December 28th, 2011, 06:42 PM | #620 |
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December 28th, 2011, 06:47 PM | #621 | |
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Anyway, I am looking forward to reading. I caught the name when I first opened the link: Christina D. Romer. She was the chair on Obama's White House Council of Economic Advisers. She was pretty much forced to resign when her prediction that the unemployment rate would drop with the $800 billion stimulus. Whoops. |
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December 28th, 2011, 07:20 PM | #622 | |||
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See - that's something that we can all agree on and start to have a discussion on. Doesn't it work better without adding made up and provably false statistics like "Obama has increased spending 84%"? Especially 1 second after chastizing someone with: It doesn't play well when people actually check the numbers. Agreed. From p. 24: Quote:
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December 28th, 2011, 09:48 PM | #623 |
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I still stand by my statement. If anyone thinks that spending is not a problem, then they are very ill informed.
Pretty interesting, Romer talking about not using facts, and not letting ideology trump evidence when that is exactly what she did when she predicted that the Stimulus would lower unemployment. Right before she was forced to resign in disgrace. But she will keep calling that kettle black. |
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December 28th, 2011, 10:57 PM | #624 | ||||
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Predicting the future is never going to be an exact science, the best anyone can do is have the best information and analyses possible when making decisions that rely on how the future plays out. I'll give you an example, with the type of analysis used by the Bush White house selling the first tax cut in 2001: Quote:
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December 29th, 2011, 03:35 PM | #625 | |
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Consumers drives companies' profit. If consumers aren't spending, then their forecasts are low so companies cut back. The end result of this cascade is a deflationary spiral which is basically leads to the next depression. Monetary policy such as QE was introduced to fight it but it resulted in a liquidity trap. Fiscal policy like the stimulus is introduced to get consumers spending again. Christy Romer shows that it did have a impact albeit not enough to bring us out completely out of the recession. Krugman knew this already and argued the possibility that the stimulus was too small (due to republicans crying about spending) and he turned out right. Given our current circumstances, a bigger stimulus would have most likely brought us out of the recession but prolong an issue we are seeing now. Remember since this is consumer driven economy, it all depends on the consumer spending. They need disposable income like you said. The reason there is no more disposable income is that wages have stagnated. I've seen the data shows that household income has increased steadily mainly because the wife took up a second job. That was shown in Elizabeth Warren's presentation on the dying middle class. This stagnation is one of the reasons why the capitalism machine is broken. This is a related to a flaw in capitalism itself. "Reality Exhibits a Keynesian Bias" I love this quote by Krugman. |
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December 29th, 2011, 03:46 PM | #626 |
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I love you guys but there comes a time when one has to just agree to disagree. No one is going to change anyones opinion here.
Look how much time has been wasted. I am off to check out the new Victoria Secret catalog that came in the mail. Here is a great video on Orcas! Last futzed with by kyrider; December 29th, 2011 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Life is short? |
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December 29th, 2011, 08:07 PM | #627 | |||
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I said this Quote:
Other than that??? Where did I attack samer using anything even remotely close to what you tossed my way?? I dont recall calling him anything like this On top of that. I have been a member here for years. You and I have had plenty of debates. Up until a couple days ago you never had anything to say about my writing style, my numerous spelling, grammer, and punctuation mistakes. Nor the fact that I use more than one question mark when asking a question. Why all the attention to it, all the sudden?? Isnt samer able to handle himself? I think he gave to me as good as he got from me in this thread. None of it deserves what you dished out, and Im quite sure if another member said the same thing, and it was complained about, to you, they would be issued a "little break". Im just sayin..........It was uncalled for, and inappropriate. Especially from the mod and owner of the "friendliest Kawasaki Ninja 250R site on the net".
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December 29th, 2011, 09:25 PM | #628 |
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You chastised him post after post about what he was talking about being fictional. You made fun of his math as grade school, when you were the one who was missing the point and once again calculating things incorrectly. Your attacks are baseless, your views are comical, and are only matched by the either irrelevant or clearly wrong "data" you frantically google to try and shore up your silliness.
Off-topic hasn't shown up in new posts for quite awhile, since right around the time the political discussions kept up primarily by you and your ilk starting getting me complaint after complaint about the tone of the site. So now people have to come here specifically, and click specifically into the political threads if they want to argue endlessly with the clueless. They can have at it, and I will as well.
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December 30th, 2011, 08:43 AM | #629 |
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December 30th, 2011, 08:49 AM | #630 | |
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Quote:
Link to original page on YouTube. |
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December 30th, 2011, 08:50 AM | #631 |
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December 30th, 2011, 09:15 AM | #632 |
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"The big lie"
The phrase was also used in a report prepared during the war by the United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler's psychological profile. His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it. From here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Lie
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December 30th, 2011, 11:56 AM | #633 | |
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Now, I dont need to refer to a video to check on Obama's promises. I got this link right here to do it. Politifact has been under harsh scrutinity from the left due to to Lie of the Year fiasco they still have some credibility. We all have heard what the pipeline can do so what's the argument against. This protest site has some interesting facts. According to this Cornell study, the pipeline might do more harm than good. With regards to the keystone pipeline, I think more research needs to be done with it. Obama made the correct choice by looking further into the project. He clearly didnt want to rush it and he certainly didnt dismiss it outright. He merely delayed it for more research. Oh here are some lies I forgot to link from a column in Bloomberg surprisingly. I think Lie No 2 was already clarified above. Last futzed with by shiroganeshinobi; December 30th, 2011 at 12:09 PM. Reason: Forgot bloomberg link! |
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December 30th, 2011, 12:54 PM | #634 |
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Is wealth more or less concentrated now than it was 100yrs ago in the US?
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January 7th, 2012, 05:02 AM | #635 |
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January 9th, 2012, 03:54 PM | #636 | |
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Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
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Quote:
Here's another lesson in hindsight for republicans. Super PAC Disclosure Requirements Hot Topic Of Conversation Among GOP Candidates and As Predicted, Florida Loses Money On Gov. Scott's Welfare Drug Testing Scheme 9 Investigates: Welfare Drug Testing |
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January 9th, 2012, 07:44 PM | #637 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
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January 19th, 2012, 01:47 PM | #638 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mike
Location: Chantilly
Join Date: Aug 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250R SE Posts: 262
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I wanted to drop this. It's a great exercise in critical thinking based on the tweets itself before Mark Thoma breaks it down.
Should We Feel Sorry for the Wealthy? Last futzed with by shiroganeshinobi; January 19th, 2012 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Forgot the great pic. |
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January 21st, 2012, 08:13 AM | #639 |
vampire
Name: A
Location: IT
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2 many 2 list Posts: A lot.
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After Three Decades, Tax Credit for Ethanol Expires
Ok, so now ethanol will cost more and we'll have to pay more for less energy in our gasoline. Only in America! Paying more, for less energy than is required to produce it. |
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January 21st, 2012, 11:03 AM | #640 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bobbert
Location: Russell Springs, KY
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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I did see an OWS guy in Nashville but he was alone with a homemade mega phone that was not being used. The weather was great around 60 and sunny. I guess at least in Nashville it has lost some steam. There were several protesters there earlier in the yr.
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