September 8th, 2013, 10:32 AM | #1 |
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Annoying… speedo errors
My car has a speedo that is dead nuts accurate.
My bike's speedo is hopelessly optimistic. WHY in this day and age are manufacturers INCAPABLE of giving us accurate instrumentation. I could live with one or two percent error, but mine's somewhere in the vicinity of 8 or 9 percent. That's just silly. It's so far off the speedo is useless so I don't bother looking at it. Rhetorical question, really… just venting. I just dropped $90 on a SpeedoDRD calibrator to fix the problem… something THAT SHOULD BE BUILT INTO THE BIKE TO BEGIN WITH.
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September 8th, 2013, 10:45 AM | #2 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Josh
Location: Richmond VA
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I think bike manufacturers make the speedo 10% fast on purpose. The 250 did it, the Bonnie does it, and my cousins R6 does it. That's too many to be a coincidence. All you really need to do is figure out what indicated speed is the max speed you want to be going on the highway (i.e. keep it under 90 indicated / 80 actual). Off the highway I rarely look at the speedo anyway.
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September 8th, 2013, 02:47 PM | #3 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
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September 8th, 2013, 02:52 PM | #4 |
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I've heard that it is because it is so easy and common to change gearing on motorcycles (with different size sprockets), the speedo is calibrated so it's highly unlikely it will ever read low, even if the owner changes the final drive ratio a bit. Don't know if there's anything to it, but perhaps it's a partial explanation.
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September 8th, 2013, 05:24 PM | #5 |
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I just do 3-7mph indicated over the limit depending on whether I'm in the city or highway. Doesn't bother me a bit, it's just the way bikes are.
I've also heard that it's because the tire wears down with mileage causing inaccuracy.. dunno how true that is but it makes sense. Not for a huge difference though, and car tires wear down too. As far as gearing goes, most people I know tend to go down in gearing for more grunt so that'd make the speedo read even higher. even at 10% inaccuracy I wouldn't call the speedometer useless, just throw a few mph onto what it reads and you're golden. |
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September 8th, 2013, 05:33 PM | #6 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Fox
Location: Boston
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Quote:
might have more to do with tire size and life than anything else. on an ever changing diameter, you can't be 100% accurate, ever. throw on a bigger tire, it screws it up even worse. it reads the number of revs and translates that to mph or kph. it gets to miles or kilometers by estimating the circumference of the tires on the road. take a turn, your diameter changes. new tires? different circumference than worn tires. bigger tire than stock, circumference changes. |
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September 8th, 2013, 05:42 PM | #7 |
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September 8th, 2013, 05:42 PM | #8 |
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On the 250, sure, but that's rare for most bikes at this point. The 300 moved to a pickup on the transmission. Speedo errors do seem pretty common across many makes. Our Buell Blast from a million years ago had a pretty accurate speedometer, for what it's worth.
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September 9th, 2013, 04:05 AM | #9 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Fox
Location: Boston
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Quote:
put a larger tire on though, and your error will go up. larger tire diameter, the slower your speedo will read. Last futzed with by dfox; September 9th, 2013 at 07:44 AM. |
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September 9th, 2013, 06:38 AM | #10 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
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All japanese bikes read 7-10 percent fast, been like that for 10-20 years. Rumor I heard is they do it to make you think you are going faster then you really are to keep YOU out of trouble.
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September 9th, 2013, 06:42 AM | #11 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
Or do the newer bikes have some sort of electronic deal that reads off of the transmission like a car? |
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September 9th, 2013, 07:30 AM | #12 |
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Yes. Very few bikes still read speed off a front-wheel sensor like the older ninjettes.
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September 9th, 2013, 11:15 AM | #13 |
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September 9th, 2013, 11:23 AM | #14 |
Cat herder
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None of the proposed rationales make any sense to me. Tire wear? Non-stock gearing? Seriously?
Let me add one more to the mix: Sensing the front wheel will introduce inaccuracies in both speed and odometer readings if you get the front wheel off the ground. I mean, come on. Really, now. This is a street-legal vehicle. The stock instrumentation should read accurately using stock tires and stock gearing. If you mod the vehicle, you're on your own. Error due to non-standard gearing isn't a "problem." It's a side-effect of modification. Mod your gearing, you should expect to have to modify other parts of the bike too.
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September 9th, 2013, 11:44 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org nubcake
Name: Frank
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The new Honda's are supposed to be spot on now according to what I hear. The car division got sued a little while back due to some of their cars reading fast also. I guess it was proven in court that some read up to 7% too fast. the lawsuit was concerning that the car would run out of miles on the warranty that much faster.
But yes...almost every bike Ive owned jap/euro/USA had read >7% too fast as well. Regards, F |
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September 9th, 2013, 11:53 AM | #16 |
Your face
Name: Wes
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Didn't realize that happens. Oh well, it's like purposely setting your clock a little fast, just to be safe from those nasty speedtraps
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September 9th, 2013, 11:57 AM | #17 |
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I'm not sure what you want to hear, Andrew. It's being done intentionally. The likely reasons have been laid out. Why do you think the speedometers are set to read high, while the odometers are usually much more accurate?
Google finds me this doc related to EU requirements for speedometers, with the very last statement in the doc making it clear that in no circumstances can the speedometer read lower than actual speed. Seems like it's one very good incentive to make sure there's quite a bit of wiggle room on the other side of that line.
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September 9th, 2013, 11:59 AM | #18 |
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Unfortunately the CHP didn't by the moto speedo-error excuse. To be fair though, I did earn that one regardless. Amazing how effective these meetings can be for behavioral modification. LOL!
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September 9th, 2013, 01:45 PM | #19 |
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You can't trust the wheels for speed, what if only one of them is on pavement? Even on a what feels to be a "smooth" road, rear wheel speed can differ from front wheel speed. Bumps and a heavy handed throttle makes it even worse. You can't trust the trans because of gearing.
You want a more accurate speed? Get a GPS w/ mount and also take note, that those are not 100% accurate either based on the update frequency. However, they are much more accurate than the stock speedo.
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September 9th, 2013, 02:39 PM | #20 |
Big Dreams, Small Wallet
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I've tracked my speed versus my Garmin 405 and I'm about 9-10% slower than what the speedo says. I just keep that in the back of my mind and haven't really had an issue worth complaining about yet.
But to AD's point, you'd think things would be engineered true to life, instead of building in some idiot-space to "keep us out of trouble".
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September 9th, 2013, 04:08 PM | #21 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
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September 9th, 2013, 04:22 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Alex has a good point. Throw on non standard gears, speedometer mph now reads below, opportunity for a stupid lawsuit.
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September 13th, 2013, 08:40 AM | #23 |
Cat herder
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Installed the SpeedoDRD this morning (REALLY easy on the GSXR) and I'm now within 1 or at most 2 mph of reality.
I used 8.5% of correction. Hard to get it precise with GPS lag being what it is. There aren't many opportunities to go steady-state for a whole mile around here. At some point I'll go find a measured mile and do some timed runs. Great product. Wish it wasn't necessary.
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September 13th, 2013, 08:50 AM | #24 |
not an actual panda
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
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It's not covered under warranty if you prove to then the speedo is off?
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September 13th, 2013, 08:55 AM | #25 |
Cat herder
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They're ALL off. So was my 250.
Dumb. Nothing wrong with the bike. It just comes that way. It's common knowledge... besides, not worth the hassle to go after Suzuki about.
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September 13th, 2013, 08:58 AM | #26 |
not an actual panda
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Yeah both my bikes and my car is off too. I agree it's annoying. I keep forgetting to mention it at the dealer though.
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September 13th, 2013, 02:49 PM | #27 |
Cat herder
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If it bugs you the SpeedoDRD is not all that expensive and is REALLY easy to install. All you need to do is find the connector for your speed sensor, unplug, plug this thing inline and program it. The latter is not intuitive in any way but it's not hard. Instructions are clear... just don't lose 'em!!!
My speed sensor is clearly visible on the left side of the engine so all I had to do was lift the tank and find the plug.
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September 14th, 2013, 12:18 AM | #28 |
Blue Shell magnet
Name: Nolan
Location: Northwest Washington
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I have to go about 15 mph over on the highway to keep up with traffic. I'm not sure if it's the crappy drivers in my area or my speedometer though... Whenever I drive by one of those in the city that tracks your speed it checks out just fine.
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September 14th, 2013, 06:23 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Frugal
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Some thoughts on the issue...
The pregen speedo is mechanical, it uses a spinning magnet driven by the speedo cable to induce magnetic eddies in a steel bell that is connected to the speedo needle. As a result, the spinning magnet drags the bell around with it. There is a clock spring (spiral spring) that resists the movement of the speedo needle, so it takes more RPMs of the speedo cable to drag the needle further around. Tiny variations in magnet strength and clock spring manufacturing will create error. Calibrating one of these involves spinning the magnet at a known speed and then bending metal parts to change the spring tension and the angle of the magnet inside the steel bell. It's finicky, precise work that requires skill. On an assembly line the goal is to get it close enough, within specified tolerances. Since the goal is to not have the speedometer read low, the tolerances are likely set up such that resulting error range will make the speedo read higher than actual speed so that tolerance error can't make the speedo read low. I did some digging in the FMVSS for regulations on accuracy, but the only thing I found was that commercial speedos had to read within 5mph at 50mph. The general trend seems to be that speedos should be within 10% of actual, with 6.5% found in an EU document. Electronic speedometers can be very accurate, but it's likely that some positive error is built in so that tire size changes (and gearing changes for speedometers driven off the transmission) are less likely to drive the speedo into negative territory. I found no evidence that there is some greater conspiracy to make all speedos read high by a particular number. If there were, then the speedo errors being reported would be very consistent, but mine is off by 5 at 70, about 3 at 45. Others report errors from 2 to 10 mph at various speeds. Since speedometer error is NOT an affirmative defense against a speeding ticket, it's in the best interest of everyone on the manufacturing side of things to ensure that the speedometer never reads lower than the actual speed. |
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September 14th, 2013, 10:10 AM | #30 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Pretty much every speedo runs 8-12% high, I've heard a few times that it's a case of companies avoiding any costs if you're done for speeding & claim that it's a vehicle fault. If it's calibrated high they're able to say that without having someone take a look at the bike.
But causes a problem with dual front discs |
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September 14th, 2013, 11:02 AM | #31 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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It bothered me so much I spent $400 on a Koso instrument cluster and got so much more then just corrected speed. My most expensive mod but probably my most appreciated.
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September 14th, 2013, 04:00 PM | #32 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Aaron
Location: Pflugerville, TX
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Does any Ninjette actually have dual front discs, though? I didn't think so.
Regardless, that's hardly an intractable problem. ABS systems have sensors that measure wheel speed (trigger wheels, usually), and those are available on bikes with two discs. |
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September 14th, 2013, 04:35 PM | #33 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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Quote:
And how many modern 600+cc machines stop on a single front rotor? It's cheaper & easier for companies to go with a single type of system, having a specific system for small bikes and another for twin disc bikes is expensive. Having a fairly rigid cable guide coming off between the wheel & disc of the majority of their line-up wouldn't be 'elegant' |
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September 16th, 2013, 04:20 PM | #34 |
ninjette.org member
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Throw on a 20.00 sigma sport bike speedo if you are OCD about a speedometer. Stock speedos have been off for the last 5 or 6 decades, if they ever were accurate.
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September 16th, 2013, 05:43 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org guru
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Both my Buell Lightning, and my Honda Elite 110 scooter are dead nuts on. My "new" 2006 ninja is however a tad optomistic.
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