January 10th, 2014, 12:25 AM | #1 |
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War crimes
So after reading about a Nazi member being charged with war crimes a few days back. I don't understand how they are able to charge him with a war crime if at the time it was not a crime to do it? Its not about right or wrong I am looking for the law side of it.
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January 10th, 2014, 09:36 AM | #2 |
So, where's the reverse?
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It's war. When you lose, it's not like you get sent home with a nice severance package.
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January 10th, 2014, 11:08 AM | #3 |
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That is true. But 60 years later. My understanding is he killed citizens but the 4th Geneva amendment was add after world war 2. So at the time it was not in violation of the war time laws.
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January 10th, 2014, 11:38 AM | #4 |
So, where's the reverse?
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Well I'm sure the Nazis broke existing laws under the Geneva Convention of the time. They may have ordered and condoned the acts, but if they thought the atrocities that they were committing were legal as viewed by the rest of the world then they wouldn't have shrouded their acts in such secrecy, destroyed documents, and jailed/killed sympathizers and witnesses.
Laws get amended and modernized all the time. At the time, no one thought a human being was capable of committing such horrific crimes against a fellow human. The laws were amended so that the powers could put these monsters on trial, lock them up and throw away the key. You don't send your sons and daughters out to die in war and shed blood only to let the enemy walk away and wipe his hands.
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January 10th, 2014, 12:13 PM | #5 | |
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Quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=il59S3HT6jI
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January 10th, 2014, 10:24 PM | #6 |
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Where did all this come from?
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January 10th, 2014, 11:09 PM | #7 |
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Haha
Johnnybravo just fish slapped Fishdip War crimes are tricky. Just google the case your are referring too. They invest a lot of International resources making sure the big shots in charge get a spanking too. |
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January 10th, 2014, 11:30 PM | #8 |
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January 11th, 2014, 01:42 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
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January 11th, 2014, 09:07 AM | #10 |
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No comment (period)
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January 12th, 2014, 08:45 AM | #11 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
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January 12th, 2014, 10:13 AM | #12 |
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Its the first link on Google and the fact its almost a full copy and paste from a few other news sites I do not see how it reflects at all. And murder is not illegal in a time of war this is why we have the Geneva stuff.
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January 12th, 2014, 03:37 PM | #13 |
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War is a crime.
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January 12th, 2014, 04:38 PM | #14 | |
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There is a difference between shooting at enemy soldiers & lining up an entire village & shooting them. Staff Sgt. Robert Bales is serving life for shooting afghan civvies as a case point. |
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January 12th, 2014, 05:03 PM | #15 | |
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January 12th, 2014, 06:23 PM | #16 | |
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Civvies getting caught in the crossfire is a sad fact of war, it's very different to go & kill everyone that looks sideways at you As for the bit in bold 'Only following orders' didn't work at Nuremburg, and I'm certain the US also hanged a number of it's own troops who murdered civvies during WWII |
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January 12th, 2014, 11:29 PM | #17 |
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That's how legal code works.
We americans have the right to bear arms..... (In your place of sojourn, with the windows closed and the blinds shut.) (On the way to or from a place of repair, gun show, firing range, or hunting preserve -- only with the firearm unloaded, locked securely in a separate container from ammunition, which must also be locked securely with a separate key.) (Apart from the above, you cannot bring a firearm out of storage or remove it's locking mechanisms.) (And you may only take your firearm to the firing range on one of three days per month, between certain hours.) (And when you get to the firing range, you must surrender your firearm for inspection by the range safety officer prior to removing the gun locks.) (And your firearm may only contain 10 rounds, including the round in the chamber.) (And you may not posses an extended barrel, magazine, or suppressor under any circumstance or you will be charged with a class I felony.) (And you may not hunt with a firearm containing less than a 5" barrel.) (And you may not bring home any deceased 'game' without registering the ear tag with the appropriate authorities.) (And you may not sell any part of the animal to any individual under any circumstances.) (And you may not posses hollow point ammunition under any circumstances.) (And you may not... Catch my drift? Laws are created. They get amended. Then the amendments get amended. And then the amendments get amended. Legal code is like math. A = B. If B = C. Only if B = D. And B*D = X, which is inequal to Y, which is equal to A, elseif B=E. In which case E is equal to M, which is always equal to N, unless N = Z. And everyone knows that Z =/= A, under all circumstances aforementioned preceding the case of 1933 in which A = Z due to litigation between parties determined that A > Z in some cases, under certain circumstances, prior to X = Y. Would anyone like a continuance? If all parties agree to the terms in question, this will go to trial. (If anyone is a software programmer, the answer is Q.) You follow me? No? Get a lawyer. This is precisely where a jury was instated -- in an attempt to overcome the rhetoric and bring a human element back into the court room. I don't even know what we were discussing anymore. |
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January 13th, 2014, 07:36 AM | #18 | |
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January 13th, 2014, 04:06 PM | #20 |
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No but at the time it was not a crime to kill non combatants in war.
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January 13th, 2014, 04:46 PM | #22 |
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You are looking at it as right and wrong. I am simply looking at it as braking the law not braking the law.
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January 13th, 2014, 05:30 PM | #23 | ||
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SECTION III. -- ON MILITARY AUTHORITY OVER HOSTILE TERRITORY Quote:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/hague02.asp |
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January 13th, 2014, 07:47 PM | #24 |
So, where's the reverse?
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As it has been pointed out, murdering civilians was never legal. The Leipzig War Crimes Trials after WW1 set the precedent for trying war criminals including crimes against civilian populations in occupied foreign territories. Article 46 and 47 of the Hague Convention state "family honour and rights, the lives of persons, and private property, as well as religious conviction and practice, must be respected. Private property cannot be confiscated. Pillage is formally forbidden." So no doubt that a nation may put on trial a Nazi if he, while occupying foreign soil murdered a Polish citizen for example.
Don't forget that Germany was warned during the war that if they lost that they would be held responsible and punished for their violations of exciting treaties and atrocities. The Allies declared that they would "pursue them to the uttermost ends of the earth... in order that justice may be done." Edit: The link to the actual case was not working for me yesterday, but in reading through it today, they are not charging him with any war crimes as you stated but rather for murder and accessory to murder. So sounds like he will be tried under German Public Law rather than international laws for being a war criminal in legal terms. I think this has been standard practice in Germany since the 1960s.
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