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Old July 7th, 2016, 08:02 AM   #1
Yakaru
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Improvements on transmission or engine

So I did a sort of 'mod audit' and realized that largely only three systems are stock on Saturn:

1. brakes (except the lines)
2. transmission
3. engine

Everything else -- exhaust, body work, controls, etc. -- has been tinkered with.

The brakes are straight forward -- getting a new master cylinder and caliper.

But what about the tranny and engine? Getting the transmission dogs undercut is one thing I've heard but otherwise no idea what might be a good idea.

Any ideas or suggestions?
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Old July 7th, 2016, 08:42 AM   #2
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Go see Nels at 2 Wheel Dynoworks in Auburn. Install an aftermarket air filter and then have him tune your machine. It's not just for more power, it's also for smoother throttle and smoother power.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 09:16 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by RacinNinja View Post
Go see Nels at 2 Wheel Dynoworks in Auburn. Install an aftermarket air filter and then have him tune your machine. It's not just for more power, it's also for smoother throttle and smoother power.
Heh, airbox is gone. I'm on pods.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 09:31 AM   #4
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Heh, airbox is gone. I'm on pods.
Ah, on the Ninja 300, sure! It's fuel injected so not a problem.

If you've done that and an exhaust, you definitely need a tune! Give him a call and talk to them a bit, it's worth every penny, IMO. All of my bikes, including my old carbed race bikes, have been tuned by him. Downside is you'll probably need a PowerCommander which is a few hundo, then the tune will be another $150+. Can't remember exact price. He's an authorized DynoJet dealer so he can take care of your PowerCommander needs as well as any issues you have with it.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 10:41 AM   #5
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I've already got a controller on it and have tuned a few times, though I suppose a check up could help.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 10:45 AM   #6
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I've already got a controller on it and have tuned a few times, though I suppose a check up could help.
If you've made any changes since the last tune, a check up is good. If no changes made, don't worry about it unless there's an issue. Didn't know it had already been tuned.........

Otherwise, I'd just leave the engine alone.

Unless you're having shifting issues or it pops out of gear, I don't know that I'd worry about the transmission. That requires complete engine disassembly and IMO, unless it's broke, don't fix it.

Might want to try some upgraded brake pads and a rotor if you're doing the braking system. Vesrah VD 250 RJL pads are a sweet upgrade in addition to braided lines. Not sure why you're doing caliper and master cylinder though? I'd honestly just start with a pad and rotor upgrade with braided lines. Then, if that isn't enough, spend the extra moolah on the caliper and master.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 10:51 AM   #7
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Here... I am going to color outside my normal lines for a little bit.

NO! Don't change a thing unless there is a safety concern your dealing with. You're mid-stride riding track on your own, learning to apply what your have been instructed previously and making REAL tangible progress. Changes are just going to throw it off, reset or just slow down your progress. Isolate your skills from the bike's abilities so you can keep track of "YOUR" progress in a good way. There is a reason CSS sets up their bikes the same way for every single school.

Do you have a list/thread of mods you have done to your bike? If you want a list of things to work on/adjust to promote your progress, then THAT is the list I would love to see you asking for and getting.

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Old July 7th, 2016, 10:57 AM   #8
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Hmmm, lemme ask you this? With additional mods are you trying to address a ridability or skill concern?
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Old July 7th, 2016, 11:03 AM   #9
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Mod list:
OEM Wheels, powdercoated, 2 sets
Ohlins Cartridge Fork swap
Powerbronze front screen
Woodcraft clipons with risers
Pazzo adjustable levers
Core Moto Stainless Steel Brake Lines
Sintered Brake Pads
EBC Rotors
TechSpec grip pads
Corbin seat
Pods instead of airbox
Carbon Fiber Inlay Fairings
All bolts replaced with ProBolt, engine/structural pieces with safety wire drilling
Area P Exhaust
Fuel Controller (Fuel Moto tuner)
Moth Rearsets with Lightech folding pegs
Yoshimura Fender Eliminator
Ohlins Rear Suspension swap

I'm SURE some things are slipping my mind but that's the list other than things that are swapable (e.g. tires) or trivial (e.g. adding rear stand spools)
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Old July 7th, 2016, 11:07 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Hmmm, lemme ask you this? With additional mods are you trying to address a ridability or skill concern?
Mostly rideability and 'top end' future skill growth; I'd just rather have the headroom for as my skill grows. Also I'm just a compulsive engineer.

As for my own skills, that list is a notebook on it's own but I tend to summarize it in my track day threads/updates. I've got a list to give Misti next week, but usually I try to make that secondary to her observing/suggesting.

Also there's a bit of a story -- the brakes/engine/transmission are the three systems that I haven't touched. They're also the three systems that let me down at the track on July 4th. There will probably be a post/update from myself and/or EternalNewb about that soon.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 11:32 AM   #11
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Unless you're dealing with a maintenance issue or have run into some of the bike's limits that are holding you back, I'm wondering what would really be worth it on the items you mention. If the transmission isn't broken, you're all set. Intake/Exhaust/Tuner already installed? You're within a few percentage points of the max power the bike would ever make, at any cost.

Any dollars that would be spent on making the bike more competitive/capable in those areas, would go much, much further on another platform. As context, most folks racing this bike get it in a competitive state of being with much less invested than you've already put in Saturn. There is no additional headroom on top that will allow them to go much faster, or for you to learn quicker, faster, better, more fully, whatever. If you do run into those limits (and you certainly might at some point) it's time for another bike on track anyway. If it is about making the ultimate 300 in every capacity, then that alone makes it a bike that you might not want to be risking at frequent track excursions.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 11:36 AM   #12
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After seeing this and your insurance question, I am glad to see you both posting.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 11:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Unless you're dealing with a maintenance issue or have run into some of the bike's limits that are holding you back, I'm wondering what would really be worth it on the items you mention. If the transmission isn't broken, you're all set. Intake/Exhaust/Tuner already installed? You're within a few percentage points of the max power the bike would ever make, at any cost.

Any dollars that would be spent on making the bike more competitive/capable in those areas, would go much, much further on another platform. As context, most folks racing this bike get it in a competitive state of being with much less invested than you've already put in Saturn. There is no additional headroom on top that will allow them to go much faster, or for you to learn quicker, faster, better, more fully, whatever. If you do run into those limits (and you certainly might at some point) it's time for another bike on track anyway. If it is about making the ultimate 300 in every capacity, then that alone makes it a bike that you might not want to be risking at frequent track excursions.
Makes perfect sense. More power I don't really think is worth pursuing -- I can just buy a 636 or S1000RR if I want that. This is somewhat about making the ultimate 300, somewhat about compulsively modding everything to make this the Motorcycle of Theseus, and somewhat about improving things like reliability, feel, and etc.

HP/Torque are no longer in the realm of perceivable improvements short of something like an actual full engine swap.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:12 PM   #14
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They're also the three systems that let me down at the track on July 4th.
How so? Or I will be patient for the update, your choice.

Now, as a tinkerer... There is no problem at all with modding things just to make you "happy" just because. Honestly, I just wanted to throw in a check and balance to ensure your working toward goals or just modding for sh*ts and giggles. The difference is pretty major, imho.

Have you ever thought about this mod, how about getting a spare set of wheels with rains mounted up? So the rain days are just as much as a benefit as the dry days. How about wheels with stickier tires so you can push some of your buttons and the bike soak up any errors that might be made.

If your just scratching the itch to make things better, might I recommend some pit bull restraints to make the loading/unloading much easier. There are tons of mods that can be done to make your experience much better.

Levers optimized for your usage?
Maybe put the stock seat back on and shave it to what works better for you at the track.
You happy with your grips?
Can you feel the swingarm moving around? Do you even want to feel that? Perhaps take off the heel rest on your rear set so you can put your heel directly on the swingarm to feel it.
Maybe you want more feel for steering? Tapered bearings are NOT the be all and end all, but they ARE an improvement.
Since you have put $$$ into tuning of the power bits, how about the suspension bits? You have aftermarket shocks/springs but have you had them tuned to what works best for YOU?
How about your gear? Maybe there is something there that you could optimize to make your experience better?
And quite honestly, going to and from the track is something left out much of the time. I didn't really understand it fully, until I got a new sled that was quiet and comfy that had plenty of pulling power. Or.... maybe a new trailer is in your future since you're becoming more of a "track day rider". Don't arrive tired like I did for so long... even seat covers with more padding go a long way, and in more ways than one.

The list of things to spend your money seems endless, deciding what you really want is the hard part.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Have you ever thought about this mod, how about getting a spare set of wheels with rains mounted up? So the rain days are just as much as a benefit as the dry days. How about wheels with stickier tires so you can push some of your buttons and the bike soak up any errors that might be made.
I have 2 sets of wheels right now -- both OEM and one with Sport Demons and one with Diablo IIs (street and track). I was eyeing some of the lighter aftermarket sets and if I get those then going to a street/wet track/dry track (probably with Pirelli Corsas) makes perfect sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Levers optimized for your usage?
Maybe put the stock seat back on and shave it to what works better for you at the track.
You happy with your grips?
Can you feel the swingarm moving around? Do you even want to feel that? Perhaps take off the heel rest on your rear set so you can put your heel directly on the swingarm to feel it.
I like the levers but they might need to be played with. Grips are something I've considered but the conflict between heated grips vs track grips has me paralyzed a bit. Never considered 'feeling' the swingarm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Maybe you want more feel for steering? Tapered bearings are NOT the be all and end all, but they ARE an improvement.
I KNEW I forgot some things. Tapered bearings already done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Since you have put $$$ into tuning of the power bits, how about the suspension bits? You have aftermarket shocks/springs but have you had them tuned to what works best for YOU?
GPSuspension/KFG Racing will be providing track day support on some days, I'm intending to go see them if I can get a ticket to 2Fast (the other trackday org up here, GPS goes to them more reliably)
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
How about your gear? Maybe there is something there that you could optimize to make your experience better?
Yep, always tuning there. I posted my current setup over in the insurance thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
And quite honestly, going to and from the track is something left out much of the time. I didn't really understand it fully, until I got a new sled that was quiet and comfy that had plenty of pulling power. Or.... maybe a new trailer is in your future since you're becoming more of a "track day rider". Don't arrive tired like I did for so long... even seat covers with more padding go a long way, and in more ways than one.
I've got a kendon trailer I'm super happy with. I'd like to get a new loading ramp for it though (later today I'm going to get a quote!). Getting something designed to tow is also on the list, my little Honda Fit is getting pretty loaded down.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:26 PM   #16
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How so? Or I will be patient for the update, your choice.

Now, as a tinkerer... There is no problem at all with modding things just to make you "happy" just because. Honestly, I just wanted to throw in a check and balance to ensure your working toward goals or just modding for sh*ts and giggles. The difference is pretty major, imho.

Have you ever thought about this mod, how about getting a spare set of wheels with rains mounted up? So the rain days are just as much as a benefit as the dry days. How about wheels with stickier tires so you can push some of your buttons and the bike soak up any errors that might be made.

If your just scratching the itch to make things better, might I recommend some pit bull restraints to make the loading/unloading much easier. There are tons of mods that can be done to make your experience much better.

Levers optimized for your usage?
Maybe put the stock seat back on and shave it to what works better for you at the track.
You happy with your grips?
Can you feel the swingarm moving around? Do you even want to feel that? Perhaps take off the heel rest on your rear set so you can put your heel directly on the swingarm to feel it.
Maybe you want more feel for steering? Tapered bearings are NOT the be all and end all, but they ARE an improvement.
Since you have put $$$ into tuning of the power bits, how about the suspension bits? You have aftermarket shocks/springs but have you had them tuned to what works best for YOU?
How about your gear? Maybe there is something there that you could optimize to make your experience better?
And quite honestly, going to and from the track is something left out much of the time. I didn't really understand it fully, until I got a new sled that was quiet and comfy that had plenty of pulling power. Or.... maybe a new trailer is in your future since you're becoming more of a "track day rider". Don't arrive tired like I did for so long... even seat covers with more padding go a long way, and in more ways than one.

The list of things to spend your money seems endless, deciding what you really want is the hard part.
Not to thread-jack, but this is such a useful diagnostic list for anyone planning on modding their bike.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 01:49 PM   #17
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It has been my experience that by far the best money I have spent that produced the best results was directed at coaching and track time.
I weigh far more than other riders and racers so really I should be far behind but with great coaching and practice; I have been able to hold my own and if it's in the rain; I'm in front!

There is a long list of stuff to throw your money at as noted above but if you really are interested in results: spend your money on continuous coaching, track time and physical fitness.

We have a racer you may know of: Steve Crevier. He can hop on any piece of junk and spank everyone!

It's not the machine. Certainly not at the level of most of us mortals! However; make sure your bike is red because it's the fastest!
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Old July 7th, 2016, 03:10 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by SLOWn60 View Post
It has been my experience that by far the best money I have spent that produced the best results was directed at coaching and track time.
I weigh far more than other riders and racers so really I should be far behind but with great coaching and practice; I have been able to hold my own and if it's in the rain; I'm in front!

There is a long list of stuff to throw your money at as noted above but if you really are interested in results: spend your money on continuous coaching, track time and physical fitness.

We have a racer you may know of: Steve Crevier. He can hop on any piece of junk and spank everyone!

It's not the machine. Certainly not at the level of most of us mortals! However; make sure your bike is red because it's the fastest!
Absolutely agreed. There's a reason I'm signed up for multiple sessions with CSS this year at multiple tracks and got a season pass to a track organization. Still, even with training I'm fairly unskilled as a rider but I'm handy with modifying and making my machine pretty unique. I get lots of comments on Saturn which makes me happy, but as a rider I'm still stuck in the "Track Newbie" level -- I'll move up someday, when my skills are there.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 03:21 PM   #19
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Maybe you just need another bike to tinker with.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #20
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Maybe you just need another bike to tinker with.
I'm impatiently waiting for my new Z125 to arrive from Japan
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Old July 7th, 2016, 04:31 PM   #21
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Absolutely agreed. There's a reason I'm signed up for multiple sessions with CSS this year at multiple tracks and got a season pass to a track organization. Still, even with training I'm fairly unskilled as a rider but I'm handy with modifying and making my machine pretty unique. I get lots of comments on Saturn which makes me happy, but as a rider I'm still stuck in the "Track Newbie" level -- I'll move up someday, when my skills are there.
Novice or "Track n00bie" is fun but is like a game of billiards: balls bouncing every which way! You'll love racing even more once you get into intermediate etc because the other riders are far more predictable and safer despite the faster pace! You can make a move and be reasonably confident they're not likely to make a dumb move or freak out if you pass close & fast or even bump a bit.

Just a thought: if you have cash burning a hole in your race leathers: I'm always willing to be sponsored!
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Old July 7th, 2016, 05:33 PM   #22
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I'm impatiently waiting for my new Z125 to arrive from Japan
Oooh I kinda want one of those. I will be waiting to hear what you think of it!
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Old July 7th, 2016, 05:36 PM   #23
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Oooh I kinda want one of those. I will be waiting to hear what you think of it!
Sis-Newb is on the 'ins' with Kawasaki and rode one for the prerelease. https://rideapart.com/articles/kawas...st-ride-review
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Old July 7th, 2016, 07:49 PM   #24
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I just want a fun little toy
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Old July 7th, 2016, 08:59 PM   #25
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Old July 9th, 2016, 12:00 PM   #26
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I thought of something else, if you absolutely can't stop tinkering. Quickshifter. http://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/b...-300-2013-2015

Rather expensive for what it does, but it's another thing that you could install.
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Old July 9th, 2016, 12:21 PM   #27
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convert it to dry sump!!!
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Old July 20th, 2016, 01:17 PM   #28
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Undercut the dog gears

I can't read.


Maybe throw some stuff in the way of engine management + launch control?
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Old June 6th, 2017, 07:42 PM   #29
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you could superfinish your gearbox, install ceramic bearing and also blueprint your gearbox.
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