March 24th, 2017, 01:53 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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Superbike ZZR 250 Project
I have a bad case of wandering eye for bikes and wanted to build a new track toy based on the Ninja 250. After sticking around here too long I came up with some crazy ideas, made some impulse purchases, which takes me to here -time to make it happen.
The Goal: A 250cc superbike/formula spec track bike with the highest HP/weight ratio reasonably possible. Bike should be legal for WERA Formula 3 and CCS GT Ultralights. Have fun building it, have fun riding it! The Plan: ZZR 250 aluminum frame Newgen motor cases/cylinder 300 cylinder head 300 clutch 300 Fuel injection KR1 Aluminum swingarm 2013+ ZX6R Showa BPF forks I have successfully mounted the ZX6r forks to the ZZR frame now. What I did was machine down and remove the stem out of a EX300 lower triple, then shorten and bore the stem from the 13+ ZX6 triple to fit the od of the 300 stem. I pressed it in and welded them together on the bottom where it is hidden and doesnt interfere with the bearing surface. For the upper triple I utilize a 09-12 ZX6r clamp and it bolts right on with the right offset and the right center bore for the 300 stem. Bearings is an All Balls kit, part number 22-1014. The only thing left to fully mount the forks is the dust cover from a ZZR that I need to source and the wheel mounting. Youll see in the picture the Motion Pro tool to take the forks apart; Ill will have to do some work to these to make them work for the reduced weight. Im waiting on my KR1 swingarm to come from Japan, but I put the bike together with a ZZR swinger for mockup. The upper eye width of the EX250 shocks I have were too wide to fit in the shock mount of the ZZR frame. I could have ground/machined down the shock spacer, but I wanted it to be a direct fit when I find a better shock. So, what I did was mount the frame up in the mill and widen the mount by about 3mm. Thats all it takes to mount a EX shock in a ZZR frame. I went through a few cylinders trying to find the best one I could, and along with a set of JE Pistons kit number 308452 sent it out to be honed. This is the 2-ring 249cc 13:1 kit. CCS allows 300cc, but the WERA class is limited to 250cc and ill be riding with WERA the most. While I have the engine cases split I will be installing ceramic trans bearings, possibly microfinishing the internals, measuring/machining for squish, but nothing too crazy to start with, just enough as a good starting base. I plan to design the wheel spacers to utilize newgen wheels as they are widely available and since I have a newgen it will minimize my spares. I will fabricate a custom aluminum subframe, aluminum fuel tank, and a fiberglass/carbon tank cover. More to come as I slowly work on this thing. |
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March 24th, 2017, 03:19 PM | #2 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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WOW!!!!
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March 25th, 2017, 12:44 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Greg
Location: San Antonio
Join Date: Dec 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, GSXR-750, Ducati M1100 Posts: 185
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I'll take a 300 version please.
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March 25th, 2017, 03:31 PM | #4 |
????????????????
Name: T
Location: no where
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2007 ninja 250, 14 ninja 300, 09 1125CR Posts: A lot.
MOTM - May '17
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March 26th, 2017, 10:08 AM | #5 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Race bikes:08 Ninja 250,11 R6,16 ZX6,SV650.3 HD-1947,2-2003,2010. 1946 Indian and a lot of dirt bikes.2 Posts: 999
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Cool build! What is the weight of the aluminum frame compaired to the stock steel one?
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March 27th, 2017, 06:22 PM | #6 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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Quote:
250R Frame - 35.6 ZZR Frame - 20.6 (w/o subframe) 250R Swingarm - 13.2 K1 Swingarm - 8.0 And for the forks, tubes only no triples, axles, etc 250R forks - 12.8 ZX6R forks - 14.8 This is on my NASA approved ultra accurate bathroom scale with an amazing resolution of 0.2lbs....YMMV but good for comparison. |
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March 27th, 2017, 08:44 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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And i just got stupid with this thing, time for a drink...
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
March 28th, 2017, 05:59 AM | #8 |
????????????????
Name: T
Location: no where
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2007 ninja 250, 14 ninja 300, 09 1125CR Posts: A lot.
MOTM - May '17
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yup your getting serious now.
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March 28th, 2017, 07:53 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Miguel
Location: MA
Join Date: Jan 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2000 EX-250; several other years of the same Posts: 470
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WOW! It looks impressive. Those forks are intimidating!
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March 29th, 2017, 01:10 PM | #10 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: bruce
Location: northern illinois
Join Date: Jan 2012 Motorcycle(s): Race bikes:08 Ninja 250,11 R6,16 ZX6,SV650.3 HD-1947,2-2003,2010. 1946 Indian and a lot of dirt bikes.2 Posts: 999
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How much trail are you losing with those triples? I'm afraid any gains from the forks may be sacrificed.
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March 29th, 2017, 09:09 PM | #11 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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March 30th, 2017, 01:21 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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Another great question. I have ran the numbers based on stock geometry with the only change as the offset and though the trail is more than a EX, it is right at the same as something like a ZX10R. Of course this may change as I build the rest of the bike and everything from the tire size to ride height changes. If once under its own power its determined the suspension needs tweaked I wont hesitate to make a custom triple, just trying to put that money elsewhere to get it rolling.
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April 9th, 2017, 09:21 PM | #13 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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Not a whole lot going on, waiting on my machinist to make spacers, hangers, etc.
The KR1 swingarm pivot width is 5mm narrower than the EX, and as far as I can tell did not come with any kind of thrust bushings. I drew up some pieces that will act as spacers and thrust bushings to be made out of bronze. My swingarm didnt come with adjuster hardware and looking at pictures online I was not in love with the plated pressed steel OEM part: So I took a set I had from a newgen and machined them down to fit. After 30 mins in the mill and a few minutes with a file they look much better than OEM and weigh nothing. I also got tired of waiting on my machinist and decided to go ahead and buy something ive been wanting for awhile, a small home lathe. This project was never going to get done waiting on my machinist! lol Hoping it will be here this week and I can knock out the swingarm and axle spacers myself. Purchased a couple of other odd/ends. Titanium hardware for all the clamp bolts on the forks/triples, clipons, a used R6 caliper, and tools and parts to rebuild it. I also decided on a shop to send my crank to for lightening and balancing. One of the journals needs slightly repaired so it will also get nitrided. That went out 4/5 and should take 2-3 weeks. |
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April 9th, 2017, 09:25 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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Speaking of OEM parts that just dont work, the KR1 brake hanger is unobtainable as far as I can tell. The EX part wont work without modification and is heavy, so a new hanger will have to be made. (EX uses tab on swingarm to keep bracket from rotating, KR1 uses brake arm)
Any suggestions on light weight single piston rear brake calipers? Ive been looking at some KTM dirtbike parts that look promising. |
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June 6th, 2017, 12:54 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org member
Name: red
Location: KL, Malaysia
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 34
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Wow, nice project you got there.
what about these types of brake? or CBR 1000rr rear brake sells for peanuts.surely is smaller than standard one. |
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June 19th, 2017, 09:24 PM | #16 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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Thanks! That looks like an ISR caliper which I have actually been considering. Im trying to get a weight on a cast Brembo for comparison as its about 1/5th the cost.
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June 19th, 2017, 09:42 PM | #17 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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Not a whole lot to update now. Work has been busy which will be good for year end bonus , ive been traveling a bit for work, and going to the track.
Now have all the spacers made up for both the Marchesini front and the stock front wheels. It utilizes the stock EX250/300 front axle. Ive settled on using early 90's Yamaha brake rotors which have the right bolt pattern for the wheels, are floating, and are slightly larger diameter. Not quite enough...Ill have to mill the fork legs to bring the brake pad into centerline of the rotor |
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June 19th, 2017, 09:56 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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I got a good deal on a very lightly used Matris shock from an 06/07 GSXR 600 with remote preload adjustment. It took some serious work to get it to fit in the frame. I had to widen the upper shock mount in the frame, clearance the top mount, narrow the pivot block, make 10mm to 8mm spacers, etc
I looked at the ZZR250, EX250, EX300, and a ZXR600 rear shock links trying to decide what I wanted to use. In the end I copied the ZZR250 tie rod link design but made them from aluminum. I have the exact numbers wrote down somewhere, but it was over a 2lbs saving from the steel units which are heavy as anchors. I still have to purchase Ti bolts for the rear linkage and fabricate a slightly longer swingarm pivot bolt and the rear suspension will be complete besides the rear brake. |
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June 19th, 2017, 10:06 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Atlanta
Join Date: Nov 2015 Motorcycle(s): 1969 Benelli Cobra 125, 1970 Honda CB160, 2009 Kawasaki 250R Posts: 107
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And then some real bling! I got back from a trip to Vienna and NW Italy last week to find this beauty finally delivered.
I had sent it off to Marine Crankshaft several weeks ago. They repaired the two rod journals, crack tested, micro polished all journals, stress relieved, lightened, balanced for the forged pistons and removal of the balance shaft, and nitride surface hardened the crank. Overall they removed nearly 2lbs of rotating mass. Not too extreme but should be a solid bottom end. I am concerned they polished the press taper, any thoughts on that? |
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June 20th, 2017, 09:58 AM | #20 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Greg
Location: San Antonio
Join Date: Dec 2014 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 300, GSXR-750, Ducati M1100 Posts: 185
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June 21st, 2017, 11:54 AM | #21 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Awesome work!!!
Where'd you get a ZZR250 frame from anyway? |
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June 21st, 2017, 07:42 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: red
Location: KL, Malaysia
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250r Posts: 34
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Can you tell me more on the removal of thr balance shaft?
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