November 26th, 2017, 06:35 AM | #1 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Teafour's project 2004 Ninja 250
Hi again,
This appears to be the place to post the projects with what is being done, thought of doing, or the hail Mary what if's. My project is a 2004 Ninja 250 I picked up extremely cheap. I intend for it to be a bike my two teenage boys can get more experience to ride with and then potentially some track days for my pure entertainment. This bike is a rag in appearance through and through but I see so much more in it. Pics of what I started with and a couple after things I've done so far attached. She didn't run when I got her although was supposedly running 6 months prior to picking her up. There various things just laying about half bolted or unbolted completely. So far, I've rebuilt the starter that was beat to hell with new brushes, installed a working solenoid (after rapping it against the floor), removed the factory air box (what a pain in the ass), cleaned the carbs, installed K&N pods, and fabricated a 2 into 1 exhaust that's now on the bike (it had a factory exhaust that was cut up with a saws-all with no muffler left). Had it running yesterday although needs lots of choke and fuel flow seems to be an issue from the tank. Drove it up and down the dirt road enough to insure it has gears and brakes. Going to work on jetting the carbs as I'm sure it's extremely lean in all area's right now. Once that's ironed out I have suspension pieces to work on. I have an early generation upside down fork GSXR front end that had a broken caliper mount on one side or an old ZX7 front end to adapt onto it. I then have a set of early Honda Hurricane 600 or F1 wheels (can't remember which) that I will be putting on front and back. This will get it ideal wheels in a 17" format to run a 110 front and a 140 rear which is the goal. I have a 2008ish rear shock for a GSXR600 to install that seems to be a reasonable fit. Between these, I should have improved and adjustable suspension with modern tire availability. That's pretty much where I'm at right now other than no idea what I'm going to do for cosmetic's before it's over. Any input, warnings or suggestions, please plug away! Thanks, Tom |
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November 26th, 2017, 09:35 PM | #2 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
- header-lengths - header diameter? - diameter after collector? I've been thinking about this for my street bike. Can certainly beef up the mid-range a little. |
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November 26th, 2017, 09:38 PM | #3 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
These wheels with S-shaped spokes? I used set for my '86 VF500F to upgrade from bizarre stock 16/18" wheels combo. Later went to F2 wheels. |
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November 26th, 2017, 09:57 PM | #4 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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I used the factory header coming off the motor. Cut the center cross channel out and then had them run down to the right underside of the engine. Salvaged a 2-1 Y from an old exhaust that was a little larger and pinched them down and welded up as a union. Then had some additional exhaust pipe pieces of the same size pipe as the factory header cut up to route from union back into a much larger pipe. The tail portion opens up to about twice the diameter just past the footpeg and into an old yoshi pipe. All salvaged from stuff my father and I had laying around for ages.
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November 26th, 2017, 09:59 PM | #5 | |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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November 27th, 2017, 08:44 AM | #6 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Are you sure the Honda wheel and appropriate tire are going to fit inside the Ninja's swingarm?
There will be some significant issues to resolve to make a GSRX or ZX7 front forks/triple clamp and F1 front wheel work as well. Honestly, a properly set-up stock front suspension and a better rear shock, as well as fresh tires, will work well enough for a track day - especially for a newer track rider. Making major "improvements" to the suspension/chassis dynamics can often lead to unexpected and unsafe changes in handling. |
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November 27th, 2017, 09:36 AM | #7 | |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Quote:
The Honda wheels are essentially the same sizes as the 2008-2012 250R wheels which people have posted throughout my readings on these forums using. So I don't expect any clearance issues on the wheels themselves any different than those from the next gen ninja conversions people have overcome. I fully expect to be making new spacers and collars. I haven't started this portion of the project yet as I'm still working on the carbs and such to drive up and down with some confidence still. The front suspension on this specific bike is crap. The forks are pitted and ugly, seals are blown completely out on one side with pits in it's stagnant sitting position. Since I'm wanting to better that and go to 17" wheels, I'm going to be either buying someone's used stock and modifying it or I'm going to try and use what I already own in storage and modifying that instead. I'm out of practice from doing it but in my past, I've done many of these kinds of mods in the 90s when everything started to get wider rims from the factory to bikes out of the 80's. The front end will need a mod on the stem going into the neck of the frame in some direction that's yet to be determined. One additional concern I have is that I currently have no upper fairing so I don't know how wide the front end is for clearance to the bodywork. That could change what I'm doing as well. I did get a GSX600 rear shock for $20 that I think is a common mod looked at through these forums. For $20, figured I can't go wrong if it doesn't want to work out easily. Definitely a lot of TBD on what I'm doing, so I thank you for the input. I'm trying to use many of the mod posts in these forums as a guide for any obvious fails to avoid where I can. Thanks again! |
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November 27th, 2017, 10:14 AM | #8 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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November 27th, 2017, 10:52 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Those wheels are long gone. Could be, that Grimeca does sound familiar. I remember seeing it somewhere, might have been on the original VF500F 16/18" wheels as well.
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November 27th, 2017, 12:43 PM | #10 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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The rims I have looked like the ones posted earlier up but they both do look very similar don't they? Mine actually have Honda in raised lettering on one of the spokes.
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November 27th, 2017, 09:32 PM | #11 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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So a little tid bit of research brought me some info about the front in spring rates. I used Racetech to go and see what spring rate it calculated up based on my weight without gear etc and it feels I should be using a .740kg/mm spring rate (stock is like .440) Obviously I'm a fatty for this bike. LOL
So then I did some looking at the front ends I have to chose from and it seems if I got with the Suzuki GSXR one, it came factory .790kg/mm, not far off. The Kawaski one I have came factory spring rate of .850kg/mm. Since these are the two for runners of what I have, how close of a match do some of you more experienced guys feel this would be or am I really off base with this comparison? These would be a little stiffer than Racetech recommendation but not by far I'm thinking. What concerns if any do we think I have using either of these like I'm planning? Thanks ahead of time for any constructive feedback. |
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November 28th, 2017, 07:47 AM | #12 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Some of the issues with using inverted forks comes with changes in geometry (rake and trail).
Rich Desmond from Sonic Springs usually advises SV racers not to go with a GSXR front end due to the changes that adversely affect handling. I raced a EX/Ninja 500 back in the day, and even adding a fork brace changed the handling due to the way it shifted the flexing from the forks to different areas of the front end and frame. Just something else to consider. |
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November 28th, 2017, 10:40 AM | #13 | |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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November 28th, 2017, 12:41 PM | #14 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; November 28th, 2017 at 02:06 PM. |
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November 28th, 2017, 03:51 PM | #15 | |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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November 29th, 2017, 07:37 PM | #16 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Not much to share on progress. Working on carbs and jetting in what little time I had but my kid took some pictures and posting just for posterity.
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November 30th, 2017, 06:39 PM | #17 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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My 2008 GSXR600 rear shock with full pivot assembly arrived today. Not bad for $20 in full including shipping.
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
December 2nd, 2017, 03:00 PM | #18 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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This is the front runner for front end change and the wheels that will eventually live on the ninja. Junkyard dog but it'll clean up nice before it's over!
*Identified the front end is a YZF 750R front end, approx 1994 model or close to it. Last futzed with by teafour; December 2nd, 2017 at 04:19 PM. |
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December 3rd, 2017, 04:50 PM | #19 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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She's coming along and is going to have to be named soon. Tweaked and finished the 2into1 header exhuast today, put some paint on it and finished the exhaust leak with new gaskets. Worked on the jetting and have it pretty well tuned at least until it gets some street time. Tore apart the CBR600F1(Hurricane) wheels to get bearing sizes inside and out and removed the tires. Got measurements off the Yamaha YZF750RR front end including the axle for the merging the wheels and tires. Lots of progression although seems my gas tank has a leak about half way up in the front. Probably shook the rust apart until it leaked. Going to have to buy a gas tank earlier than intended now I'm afraid. All in all, a winning day on the project.
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December 5th, 2017, 04:05 PM | #20 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Working on stripping and clean the wheels right now. Using aircraft stripper to start and see how it plays out. Anyone in here use the sand blasters from such as Harbor Freight? Not the boxed ones but the portables. Also, looking at picking up one of those cheap powder coating kits. Any worth to either of these or experience any of you have used?
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December 5th, 2017, 04:27 PM | #21 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
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Believe the precautions on the stripper can if it's the type with methylene chloride. That's mean stuff.
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December 7th, 2017, 04:51 PM | #22 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Jim you are absolutely correct about this stuff being scary however, Honda in the 80's evidently believed in some awesome amazing paint product. I've gone through two can's and the best I got was some going into a toothpaste like level I could scrap out with a putty knife. I'm considering glass bead abrasive in a sand blaster. LOL
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December 8th, 2017, 07:59 PM | #23 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Gave up on the aircraft stripper. Went by Harbor Freight today and got a abrasive blast cabinet and powder coat system. Cheap but will be effective I'm sure. LOL
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December 8th, 2017, 08:06 PM | #24 | |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
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December 8th, 2017, 08:31 PM | #25 | |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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December 8th, 2017, 10:01 PM | #26 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bill
Location: Port Huron, Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Kawasaki 250 Ninja, 1982 Honda Ascot FT500 Posts: A lot.
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Bill
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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time. |
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December 9th, 2017, 08:01 AM | #27 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
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December 9th, 2017, 11:17 AM | #28 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Bill
Location: Port Huron, Michigan
Join Date: Mar 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Kawasaki 250 Ninja, 1982 Honda Ascot FT500 Posts: A lot.
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Header.
Bill
__________________________________________________
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results each time. |
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December 9th, 2017, 11:34 AM | #29 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Rick
Location: Alexandria, Louisiana
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much.
MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14
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Awesome project!
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December 16th, 2017, 09:57 PM | #30 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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So got the Hurricane 600 front wheel bead blasted clean and worked on bearings and spacers to center the wheel into the YZF750RR front end and damn thing tricked me or I was stupid. Either way, I figured it out and got it sorted out. Spacers made, wheel mounted. The brake rotor alignment gives me room for mounting a caliper with an aluminum bracket of my choosing and design. That'll be the next step.
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December 28th, 2017, 04:21 PM | #31 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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A few pieces came in for the bike and I'm currently making front brake bracket for the caliper. Will post the bracket up later on when it's finished, designing it up right now and will start working aluminum soon.
New solenoid since I was having to knock the one I had against the frame when it wouldn't disengage right away. Just old and sticking. Also got bearings for the 600 Hurricane rear wheel. Lastly in today's stuff, a twist on gas cap. |
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January 1st, 2018, 10:06 PM | #32 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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So headway on the front end for this project has been made. Got the Honda caliper laid out on the rotor and aligned with the Yamaha front fork. I designed up a mount and CNC cut it out today from a .5" aluminum stock I had. Holes lined up when I mounted, need a little more spacer on the caliper side but happy with how the bracket came out.
Also got a Kawaski donner for the triple tree stem after I do the finish work on the brake bracket. |
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January 2nd, 2018, 04:20 PM | #33 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Chris
Location: Bristol, UK
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): ZZR250, VFR800 Posts: 491
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Ditch the sliding 2 pots & fit either 1 or 2 x 4-pot calipers.
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January 2nd, 2018, 04:49 PM | #34 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Didn't have any laying around in my salvage selection. These are off a early model Honda and likely more brake than the bike needs but if I deem later to change, should be pretty easy to use same mount. I think Mid/Late 90's Honda's bolt right up spacing wise. We'll see later on. Yamaha had 6 puck calipers on this front end. No point in those and would had been hell to fit the wheel I wanted.
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January 2nd, 2018, 05:50 PM | #35 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Yeah, with low-weight and speeds achieved by 250, braking power is more than adequately handled by factory brakes. I just upgraded pads to Galfer on my track bike and it’s been fine for years. Factory pads feel too non-linear, a lot of grip at first, but doesn’t increase very evenly with extra squeezing force.
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January 3rd, 2018, 04:21 PM | #36 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Aftermarket switch controls and windshield hardware I ordered form Ebay China stuff came in today.
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January 4th, 2018, 03:38 PM | #37 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tedd
Location: Creston
Join Date: Dec 2017 Motorcycle(s): 11'Ninja 250r, 06 Ninja250r(Sold), 01'GSX-R750(Sold), 07'GSX-R1000(Sold), 96 GSX-R600(Sold),11' DR-400s(SOLD) Posts: 37
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sweet pregen. i got my pregen for $500 in working condition. although the battery was dead when I bought it , was a gamble but it paid off. although it has a different shock installed, im having second thoughts about tracking it because of my height and not sure if its safe for someone as big as me to ride a bike this small. I have always rode gsxrs but for some reason I wanted a cheap 250 so I picked this up. Just put on some sport demons...
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January 4th, 2018, 05:17 PM | #38 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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Yours is so much nicer and in better shape than I started on this project. lol
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January 5th, 2018, 06:48 PM | #39 |
Corner Chaser
Name: Thomas
Location: Eustis, FL
Join Date: Nov 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR1000, 1986 VFR750, 2004 Ninja 250 Posts: 89
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So front end is coming along more. No pictures yet but after messing with the Kawi neck, I found the bottom raceway sizing from the yamaha had the same diameters as the kawi's which means you can mount them to each other. The top raceway is smaller on the yamaha where the kawi is same as the bottom sizing. So instead of trying to press out the yamaha stem, I ordered some timken bearings for the ninja which should match up with the bottom of both the ninja and yamaha front end and allow me to make a collar nut to come from the top to space and center there. This was a major find/win in my mind. Will find out more in a week when the bearings arrive.
Side note, ebay guages I ordered came in. Since I'm changing wheel sizes and such, I wanted to get back a working speedo so I landed on this guy below using magnetic sensor design and will also replace all the other gauges and display indicators. |
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January 5th, 2018, 07:33 PM | #40 |
Motorbike Obsessed
Name: Me
Location: SoCal
Join Date: May 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2004 Kawasaki EX250, 2004 Yamaha FZ1, 2006 Honda CRF 450 Flat Track Race Bike Posts: 133
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Interested to see how you mount that gauge. I’ve been on the lookout for a race tach for my pregen.
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My race Ninja build and more motorcycle content. My Motorbike Obsessions |
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