April 12th, 2018, 04:18 PM | #1 |
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Back tire is leaning?
So I just got my bike (mostly) put back together after going through it all winter. I was getting ready to take it out for a test/ tuning run when I realized that my back tire is leaning to the left, like alot.
I really don't want to take it back off again, does anyone know offhand anything that would cause this? Both of my chain tensioners are perfect with eachother, and I don't have any extra parts laying around from putting it back together, it just got nice out I wanna ride! Help? Last futzed with by Tylorwashere; April 12th, 2018 at 04:19 PM. Reason: Typo |
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April 12th, 2018, 04:25 PM | #2 |
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"Leaning" to the left?
Do you mean that as you look at the bike from the rear (with the bike straight up and down), the rim is not vertical? Got a pic? Seriously, removing and replacing a wheel is not that hard once you've done it a couple of times. I do it at the track all the time... 10 minutes tops for both ends of the bike.
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April 12th, 2018, 04:30 PM | #3 | |
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Yeah when it's on the center stand it's leaning to the left. I'll take a picture just give me a sec. Anything else you wanna see while I'm out there?
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April 12th, 2018, 04:38 PM | #4 |
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Trying to wrap my head around what could possibly cause that. Makes no sense... Does it spin freely? If you push on it side to side, is it solid or does it wobble?
Get a closeup of both ends of the axle, where it goes through the swing arm. Wondering if, perhaps, a wheel bearing fell out or something.
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April 12th, 2018, 04:40 PM | #5 |
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Sorry I meant it's leaning to the right, kinda hard to get a good picture |
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April 12th, 2018, 04:40 PM | #6 | |
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Yeah when it's on the center stand it's leaning to the left. I'll take a picture just give me a sec. Anything else you wanna see while I'm out there?
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April 12th, 2018, 04:41 PM | #7 |
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April 12th, 2018, 04:43 PM | #8 |
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Im not sure why its not uploading the url, but yeah its in there solid, not wobbly or anything. The only thing I can think is I didn't crank the nut on the rear axle down, just far enough so it was wrench snug and I could get the cotter pin through
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April 12th, 2018, 04:57 PM | #9 |
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If the plane of the wheel's rotation is not in line with the frame (vertical) then the frame or swing arm is bent, or there's some other serious problem like a bushing is missing from the swing arm pivot.
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April 12th, 2018, 05:10 PM | #10 |
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I got nothin'.
If the swing arm is undamaged, it should not be possible for the wheel to go in at an angle... the axle goes through two slots and there's really no chance for it to be out of square. This view doesn't show the stamped metal spacers that should be there... ... meaning these.... So: If it's impossible for the axle to go in crooked, then there are only two things I can think of that would cause the wheel to be skewed like that. Either: 1) There's something wrong with the wheel assembly. If all parts are there and the rim hasn't been bent, then the only possibility is the hub... bearings? 2) The whole swing arm is crooked. You said you were "putting the bike back together." Did you take off the swing arm? Could that have gotten put back together wrong? You can do a quick/dirty test of #2 if you've got a level floor, by measuring the distance from the ground to the bottom of the swing arm on both sides with the bike up on its center stand. If it were me, I'd take it all apart and make darned sure all the parts are there, check for anything that's not square and put it all back. Not cool to ride with a bike that's deranged.
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April 12th, 2018, 05:24 PM | #11 | |
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The only thing I did that could possibly affect the swing arm is swap out the old shock for a newgen one. I'm thinking I probably put something back together wrong when I put it back on. I didn't take the hub assembly apart when I changed the rear sprocket, so maybe that isn't all together correctly. But most likely I have a spacer in wrong or something
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April 12th, 2018, 05:26 PM | #12 |
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April 12th, 2018, 06:48 PM | #13 |
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Looks pretty straight to me.
Tyre's at 90-degrees to turn-signals Tyre's 90-degrees to bottom of taillight. Tyre's centre is perfectly in middle of taillight. Fender might be a little crooked and giving an optical illusion. More of the license-plate is to right of centreline. |
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April 13th, 2018, 05:43 AM | #14 |
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I don't see the problem either.
Measure from the center of the axle bolt to a point forward that's the same on both sides - like the swingarm pivot bolt. Get the same measurement, then compare it to the hash marks on the swingarm. They don't always agree. Once I know it's perfectly aligned I will put a punch mark on the adjuster bolts in the same point on each one (like the 12-o'clock position). That way you just turn 1/8, 1/4, or whatever, on each and you know you are still aligned correctly. Saves time rechecking the measurement and makes it easy to be accurate. Sometimes there are things in the way, so you may need to find another point that works. |
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April 13th, 2018, 06:12 AM | #15 |
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I will try to get a better picture, in person it looks really bad
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April 13th, 2018, 06:31 AM | #16 |
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The string measure thing only works if the wheel isn't tracking straight (skewed when seen from above). That's not what's going on here. The top of the tire is farther to the right than the contact patch. It's skewed when seen from the rear.
My money's on the whole swing arm being off somehow, at the pivot. Has the bike ever been crashed?
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April 13th, 2018, 06:48 AM | #17 | |
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We had a Ninja that went down at 85 MPH (original owner was caught on radar) and trashed most everything, but the frame and such were fine. With the tire on the ground, you could take a measurement from the axle to the floor, and obviously they should be the same. If not - the swingarm is bent. |
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April 13th, 2018, 10:30 AM | #18 |
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Yeah, only way to tilt tyre is bend swingarm; there's no adjustment.
OP, remove rear fender a take another photo. |
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April 13th, 2018, 10:50 AM | #19 |
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April 13th, 2018, 10:59 AM | #20 | |
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1) Bike was okay before disassembly (presumably). 2) Rear was taken apart to install new shock. 3) Things are askew after reassembly. If things were okay before and nothing untoward happened to the pieces (like, oh, an elephant standing on the swingarm or something) while apart, then the simplest answer is user error in reassembly. Unsure of the actual mechanism by which one might get that result, having never done the job myself. But from a sheer cause-and-effect logic standpoint, it makes sense.
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April 13th, 2018, 11:14 AM | #21 |
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Okay, so given that:
A) The wheel axle can't be installed in a way that the tire can "lean" off of vertical (though it can be installed so that the wheel won't track straight); B) It doesn't seem likely (absent further information) that either the swingarm or wheel are bent; C) The rear of the bike was taken apart and reassembled Let's see if we can figure out what might have gone wrong. Here's the parts diagram: The swingarm bolt passes through a tube (42036) that sits in the swingarm. At either end are an oil seal (92049) and a bearing (92046). It looks like the tube rides in the bearing, the bearing fits into the swingarm, and the oil seals keep dirt out of the whole shebang. So what happens if we leave out one bearing? Seems to me that might produce what we're seeing.
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April 13th, 2018, 03:54 PM | #22 |
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Except we're not seeing any misalignment except for crooked fender and license plate.
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April 13th, 2018, 06:04 PM | #23 |
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I love how this has turned into a huge discussion, sorry I didn't get a chance to get another picture, apparently there's some apocalyptic ice storm coming this weekend so I was busy getting ready, but I will try my hardest tomorrow.
But here's some things that may clear some stuff up: Swing arm was never off, it hasn't been crashed since I've had it, and it rode fine all last summer. I thought I put everything back in on both sides of the rim correctly, but I may not have. I noticed some play in what I assume is the hub assembly when I changed the rear sprocket, should this be tight? |
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April 13th, 2018, 07:19 PM | #24 | |
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Quote:
Here's some info on the procedure to snug it up - https://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_to...the_cush_drive |
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April 13th, 2018, 09:18 PM | #25 | |
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April 14th, 2018, 06:21 AM | #26 |
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There is definitely something wrong, because I rode it around the block before I noticed and whenever I use the back break it feels like the rear end wants to slide out to the side, and it doesn't feel really stable while riding
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April 14th, 2018, 06:45 AM | #27 |
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Something is obviously wrong with the hub. Refer to the parts diagram below, take the wheel off, and account for every piece (including the stuff that's normally inside the hub, e.g. wheel bearings). If everything is there and it's all in the right place, put it back together.
That's the solution, whatever the cause may have been.
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April 14th, 2018, 07:28 AM | #28 | |
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Something isn't right, but I'm not sure what it would be. As adouglas said, look at the parts diagram and be sure all bearings, spaces, etc are there. Can't say I've heard of this type of thing before. |
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April 14th, 2018, 12:17 PM | #29 |
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April 14th, 2018, 01:55 PM | #30 | |
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April 14th, 2018, 02:29 PM | #31 |
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I bet there’s a spacer missing.
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April 20th, 2018, 03:34 PM | #32 |
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If anyone is still interested I took the wheel off again, spacers were there on each side and everything in the hub was still there. I put it back on and it's almost worse than it was the first time. Have it off again right now and here are some observations:
The sleeve that the axle goes though inside the hub doesn't seem to be fixed in place it's kinda just in there inbetween the bearings. If I lay the tire flat on the brake disk and grab the sprocket I can kinda wobble it around to and fro. I think the axle was in from the wrong side? Not sure if that matters. If I tighten the axle nut all the way down the tire won't move. Seems kinda odd. The chain adjusters have a thin and a thick side, which one is supposed to go inside the Swing arm? Once again, someone save me lol. I can't believe I've made it this far tearing it down and putting it back together to get stuck on the very last thing I need to do. |
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April 20th, 2018, 04:58 PM | #33 |
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Are the cush drive rubbers missing? (part 92075 in the image above)
That would explain being able to wobble the sprocket around. According to the parts diagram above, the axle should go in from right to left as seen from the rear of the bike. Nut on the sprocket side. Image of chain adjuster orientation for the 2005 Ninjette below...
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April 20th, 2018, 05:59 PM | #34 |
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If you're tightening the nut all the way down and the wheel is binding, there's definitely something missing. The purpose of the spacers is to keep that from happening.
Get specific. Take a look at the image of the wheel above, which shows all the various spacers and bearings. Are you ABSOLUTELY SURE that EVERY ONE is accounted for and in the right place? From right to left looking from the rear of the bike, you should have: - 92027A, spacer with shoulder. This is directly under the head of the axle bolt. - 92049, which looks like a dust cover - 601B bearing, which has a circlip (92033) holding it in - 92143 axle tube - 601 axle bearing (with 671 O ring) - 42036 spacer that fits inside the sprocket carrier - 601A sprocket carrier bearing - 92052 washer - 92027 spacer and the nut. That's no fewer than nine things the bolt goes through, not counting the adjusters, swing arm, wheel and sprocket carrier. Can you for absolute sure account for all of them?
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April 20th, 2018, 06:33 PM | #35 |
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Those were the only spacers on the outside of the hub. I guess I'll take the hub apart tomorrow and see what's inside |
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April 20th, 2018, 07:08 PM | #36 |
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You're sharing photos incorrectly. On Photobucket select the "direct" link and insert it using the image button here (the little yellow square with a pic of a mountain in it). Then they'll show up.
I went to the pages. One just shows your tail light. The other shows two spacers and an axle adjuster but nothing else. No indication of which side of the swing arm those were pulled from, or in what order everything was assembled. No context. Take a look at the exploded view of the wheel above... which spacers do you think those are, based on appearance? That image has everything you need to know to tell what order things go in and where they're located.
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April 20th, 2018, 09:34 PM | #37 |
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Make sure the spacer 42036 between sprocket carrier and hub isn't reversed.
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April 21st, 2018, 03:36 AM | #38 |
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Yeah sorry about the uploading thing, I tried using the button but I don't think it likes me doing it from my phone or something. Those are 92027 and 92027a, I was showing them to show that they were there. I haven't gotten the hub apart, but from the exploded view and what I can see from looking into it, it's all there. ( the bearings have no play, dust covers are there, etc.)
My biggest concern is that the axle tube has play inside the hub. Is that normal? |
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April 21st, 2018, 04:08 AM | #39 |
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Good one. That might explain why the sprocket wobbles.
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April 21st, 2018, 09:32 AM | #40 | |
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Quote:
As mentioned, you may be missing a washer or spacer or they may be in wrong order or flipped. Remove everything and lay in order of how they go onto axle and see how it compares to diagram. |
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