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Old May 30th, 2018, 06:32 PM   #1
calypsia6978
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Bike Sat For Years

So, I let my 2006 Ninja 250R sit for several years and I've just now been working on it. I tore it down and took out the carbs, took them apart and cleaned them out quite thoroughly. They seem to be functional and very clean. I reassembled my bike, had to replace the battery, and just this evening finally put a little gas in and tried to start it up. Took a bit for it to finally fire up, but it did. However, it runs at relatively high RPMs for a while, around 4K, and then dies suddenly. From what I seem to be reading, I think the problem might be my spark plugs, which is a pain, because I seem to remember changing them the LAST time I got the bike out 6 years ago... but I suppose if that's what is necessary....
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Old May 30th, 2018, 06:47 PM   #2
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Hi Tiffani and welcome!

Your plugs are fine, the carburetors have sticky slides allowing too much air in. That's why your RPMs hang high. You most likely have dried gas that's turned into a plastic varnish clogging inside of your carbs. You'll need heavy-duty industrial chemicals, ultrasonic cleaning, and pressure-blasted abrasives to remove the plastic-like varnish of dried gas. It cross-links into poly-vinyl bonds that can never be dissolved again. You also need to floss out the hidden passages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n4mwd View Post
Here are the secret passages in the carbs. They are kindof hard to figure out sometimes and this picture guide will show where they are for cleaning purposes.

Carb Pilot jet Circuit


Carb Main Jet Circuit


Carb Fuel and Overflow Drain


Carb Diaphragm Intake, upper choke and vacuum ports


Carb Choke Circuit
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Old May 30th, 2018, 06:50 PM   #3
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What he said.

My first Ninja I thought I cleaned the carbs well. After the fourth time cleaning them the bike finally ran pretty well.

Does @ducatiman still do carb service?
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Old May 30th, 2018, 09:43 PM   #4
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What he said.

My first Ninja I thought I cleaned the carbs well. After the fourth time cleaning them the bike finally ran pretty well.

Does @ducatiman still do carb service?
yes
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Old May 31st, 2018, 05:02 AM   #5
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As long as you did not run it on old gas or get flooded out really bad the plugs should be fine if they were not due to be charged anyway. I agree with the last couple posts.... sound like carbs still need a little TLC!
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Old May 31st, 2018, 12:50 PM   #6
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Well, then, sounds like the carbs are going to come back off.... However... I don't think I have access to the necessary equipment to properly clean out the carbs as described above.... this could get tricky. I tried PMing Ducatiman, but he said he's going on a vacation soon and wouldn't likely get to them until after the 4th of July. I'd prefer to get this working much sooner... so I guess I'll just try to do it myself... maybe I should check for air leaks around the Airbus before I go taking the carbs off again....
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Old May 31st, 2018, 02:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
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... maybe I should check for air leaks around the Airbus before I go taking the carbs off again....
Yes, definitely look around the Airbus!

Yes I know... autocorrect.
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Old May 31st, 2018, 05:51 PM   #8
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Yes, definitely look around the Airbus!

Yes I know... autocorrect.
Grrr, yes, stupid autocorrect on my phone! LOL! Ugh!
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Old June 1st, 2018, 11:53 AM   #9
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Don't worry about airbus, nothing before carbs will cause you these problems. Rubber boots between carbs and engine though, should be tight with no leaks. You'll want to disassemble carbs down to individual components for thorough cleaning of each part:



Take apart emulsion tube into constituent parts: main jet, holder, needle jet collar. Note how needle-jet collar is oriented so you can re-assemble later same way. Unscrew pilot jet being careful to not lose spring, washer and O-ring. Might as well replace O-ring, float-bowl seals and float-valves.



Then use soft copper wire of various diameters to poke through all tiny little orifices in all parts. Some people use guitar string to floss out secret passages in carburetor body. Blow compressed air through all circuits and verify you've got air coming out other end.

Finally, dunk all parts into 50/50 mix of acetone/ATF overnight to dissolve any remaining minor deposits that wasn't cleared out with flossing. If you can, use ultrasonic cleaner with 100% solution of KrudKutter for 12-hours. Thoroughly rinse with distilled water and dry. Don't get any cleaners on rubber diaphragm of slides. Measure and set float-levels when re-assembling. Set pilot-screws at 2.0-2.5 turns out. All this is perhaps maybe 30-40% of refurb job ducatiman does.

Here's good site for working on carbs: http://www.vulcangadgets.com/files/keihin_carb.html

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Old June 1st, 2018, 03:23 PM   #10
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Uh... that seems way more complex that I'm comfortable, Danno... but I suppose I could do that, I do have guitar string around here... need to know what ATF is to mix with Acetone for the 50/50 solution you mentioned... maybe I could just find a local shop to take it to that would clean it...
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Old June 1st, 2018, 03:57 PM   #11
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Dexron-II should work. Hard to find shops that can do this, unless there's master-mechanic that's 50-yrs old or more!

Just take your time and be careful and meticulous. There's lots of brass parts that can get chewed up by screwdrivers, so go slow and careful. The acetone/ATF mix has good penetrating/anti-seize functions, so perhaps wipe some of that over everything to start loosening overnight (except rubbers on slides). Also if you have JIS screwdrivers, screws will come out easier without slipping. Impact screwdriver set can work to loosen tough ones.

https://www.harborfreight.com/impact...ase-37530.html
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Old June 2nd, 2018, 06:34 AM   #12
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Acetone and ATF will separate with the acetone on top if it sits overnight, so I'm not sure what advantage that mix will have sitting that long. It's very flammable though, so be careful.
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Old June 2nd, 2018, 02:47 PM   #13
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Acetone and ATF will separate with the acetone on top if it sits overnight, so I'm not sure what advantage that mix will have sitting that long. It's very flammable though, so be careful.
Agreed Jim. I've experimented with acetone and ATF and lacquer thinner and ATF in a clear glass jar. They do not mix and therefore don't work. The ATF/acetone can be shaken but it makes a compound not a solution and eventually separates There was a piece on the internet a few years ago that touted that ATF and acetone will loosen rusted bolts. That's probably where the ATF/acetone came from. I use ATF and gasoline and that does work mainly because ATF has terrific penetrating qualities and the gasoline just serves as a "carrier" to take the ATF deep into the metal's surface - and then evaporates.

Today I use ATF in lieu of things like 3 in 1 oil. I even lubricate my firearms with the stuff.

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Old June 4th, 2018, 07:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calypsia6978 View Post
Uh... that seems way more complex that I'm comfortable, Danno... but I suppose I could do that, I do have guitar string around here... need to know what ATF is to mix with Acetone for the 50/50 solution you mentioned... maybe I could just find a local shop to take it to that would clean it...
Chances are that won't end well. It will cost WAY too much and probably won't be done properly.

It's an art, and most Techs aren't going to have the right equipment or knowledge to get it spot-on.

Talk to ducatiman. That way you will know they are right.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 03:03 PM   #15
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Talk to ducatiman. That way you will know they are right.
I'd love to do that, but I'd like to get it fixed up sooner, he's going on vacation and won't be able to get to it until after July 4th. :P
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Old June 4th, 2018, 05:10 PM   #16
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If you want a safe carb cleaner, You can use a mix of 3 parts of Pine sol to one part water to dip the disassembled carb. It takes a little longer 2-3 days but it works. A piece of automotive electrical wire separated into separate strands works well to clean out the passages.
If you want a stronger carb cleaner, many parts stores carry the one gallon cans of carb cleaner that work good for smaller carbs like these. Once you dip it in the carb cleaner the parts can be rinsed with water or brake cleaner.
If you were able to get it apart and back together the first time it will be easier this time, especially with the information and pictures that have been posted.
I'm sure if you get stuck someone here should be able to help out.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 05:52 PM   #17
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If you want a stronger carb cleaner, many parts stores carry the one gallon cans of carb cleaner that work good for smaller carbs like these. Once you dip it in the carb cleaner the parts can be rinsed with water or brake cleaner.
These carbs, if fairly well clogged, won't get everything clean from a soak and rinse and poke with wire job. Particularly the idle passages are tricky to get truly clean, so it's common for engines to not want to idle even after carbs that have been "cleaned" several times.
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Old June 4th, 2018, 06:47 PM   #18
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These carbs, if fairly well clogged, won't get everything clean from a soak and rinse and poke with wire job. Particularly the idle passages are tricky to get truly clean, so it's common for engines to not want to idle even after carbs that have been "cleaned" several times.
I was wondering if you bought an ultrasonic cleaner (small one) and filled it with MEK. I don't know how long you would soak the carb though.

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Old June 5th, 2018, 07:45 AM   #19
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I was wondering if you bought an ultrasonic cleaner (small one) and filled it with MEK. I don't know how long you would soak the carb though.

Bill
I wouldn't use MEK. Typically a water-based solution is recommended for ultrasonic cleaning, and there may be safety reasons for that.

MEK is nasty stuff, and can be dangerous to use.

I'd be curious what ducatiman has to say about it, but I have soaked carbs in (old school) carb cleaner, then after rinsing put them into a heated ultrasonic bath using water and a degreaser.

Has worked for me, but there may be a better procedure.
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