November 26th, 2009, 12:51 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Anthony
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja ZZR 250; 1996 Suzuki Katana GSXF 600; 80s Yamaha 650 Special; 70s Kawasaki 350 Triple Posts: 448
|
Rusting faster in heated garage
People seem to notice that their cars and/or bikes rust faster in a heated garage than in a cold one in the wet winter season. One says that both his cars started rusting after about 4 years when parked in his heated garage, when his other cars did not have the same problem when parked in a cold garage or in the street.
This does stand to reason. A car or bike coming into a warm garage wet and may have salt clinging to it will rust faster, since the rusting rate rises with higher temperature. It would be better to park a wet car or bike in a cold garage, or even outside in the cold, than to bring it into a warm environment in which it will stay wet for hours. This of course does not apply to dry and clean cars or bikes which are never driven or ridden in the rain or snow. |
|
November 26th, 2009, 10:22 AM | #2 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Anthony, That is very true. My garage/shop is a constant 60F. The cages get a washdown at the car wash around the corner once a week--concentrating on the undercarriage and the inside of the wheel wells. The motorcycle is left to equalize temperaturewise and is then thoroughly wiped down. I use my compressor and air hose to blow out any accumulated debris--concentrating on the header pipes, shifter, side stand, and brake pedal. A blast of air on the control surfaces--(levers and such ) also helps. Putting a little oil into the Allen Head screws--the four black ones inside the fairing with a Q tip and the two rivets holding the ignition key assembly also helps. I then wipe down the chain--clean it with WD-40 (not the aerosol type because the propellant attacks the O rings) and lube the chain with Maxxima Chain Wax. This does not take a long time. If I am not going to use the bike for a while, I raise it on a front and rear jackstand, plug in the Battery Tender, and cover the bike with a bike cover. I only rode the bike a couple times last winter. It is still in mint condition.
|
|
November 28th, 2009, 05:14 PM | #3 |
ATGATT Squid Killer
Name: Chad
Location: So. Cal
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '06 CBR600 Posts: 189
|
I'd like a little more science behind your guys' claims. My understanding is that rust = oxidation. Key root of that word "oxi" coming from oxygen. Science tells us that cold weather is "denser" i.e. contains more oxygen per unit of measurement, so by those standards a car should rust faster in a cold environment because it is being expose to more oxygen.
I believe you will find more of a correlation between rust and humidity than rust and temperature. My garage is dry and sealed extremely well from the elements. It's warm in the summer, cold in the winter and I see no difference in how fast things oxidize. This house has been in my family for nearly 50 years as well. I think the storage environment is irrelevant if you drive in snow/ice/salt. You car/motorcycle/didlo WILL rust being exposed to salt. my .02 |
|
November 28th, 2009, 05:38 PM | #4 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Anthony
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja ZZR 250; 1996 Suzuki Katana GSXF 600; 80s Yamaha 650 Special; 70s Kawasaki 350 Triple Posts: 448
|
Quote:
http://www.tpub.com/content/doe/h101...1015v1_115.htm "Factors Affecting General Corrosion Rate: Like most other chemical reactions, corrosion rates increase as temperature increases. Temperature and pressure of the medium govern the solubilities of the corrosive species in the fluid, such as oxygen (O ), carbon dioxide (CO ), chlorides, and hydroxides. A rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles with a 20F to 50F temperature rise. This linear increase with temperature does not continue indefinitely due, in part, to a change in the oxide film." |
|
|
November 28th, 2009, 06:04 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Alex
Location: Belfast, ME
Join Date: Jul 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Honda NT-700-V, formerly, Green 2008 Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Anthony, I have not noticed an increase in rusting since my cages are stored in a heated garage. My garage is dry because it is well insulated and has hot water heat--which is very dry. I do squeege any slush or water that comes off the cars out of the garage.
|
|
November 28th, 2009, 06:15 PM | #6 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Anthony
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja ZZR 250; 1996 Suzuki Katana GSXF 600; 80s Yamaha 650 Special; 70s Kawasaki 350 Triple Posts: 448
|
Quote:
I think all in all, it is a balance between the higher O2 content in colder water and the higher corrosion rate with higher temperature. The 2X-rate from 20F to 50F is probably the net between the 2 contending rates, and apparently, the temperature wins over the O2 concentration. In a heated and dry garage, the corrosion would probably occur when the car/bike is wet and warm, especially on the underside and wheel-wells. So, it seems that getting the car/bike to dry out ASAP is the way to minimize rusting. A blower might be the way to go. |
|
|
November 28th, 2009, 07:44 PM | #7 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Remy
Location: Moncton
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '04 sv650s Posts: 438
|
Quote:
Best thing to do is to spray fresh water on your car and under it to remove all the salt.. it sounds easy until you realise your hose can't be used because its frozen ahah!
__________________________________________________
There's 2 types of people in this world, those who complain and those who act. |
|
|
November 29th, 2009, 11:31 AM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rob
Location: Montreal, Canada
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250R Posts: 171
|
In cold environments molecules are less active. Heated up they bounce around a lot more, kinetic energy. Similar to why we put thing in the fridge and others in a freezer or boiling water.
Question though. Will my bike start to rust if the car goes out and comes in dirty. No direct contact with salt, but just having some salt in the garage, is it that bad?
__________________________________________________
Back on the road again Season 2010 Dam it feels good! |
|
November 29th, 2009, 11:49 AM | #9 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Anthony
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja ZZR 250; 1996 Suzuki Katana GSXF 600; 80s Yamaha 650 Special; 70s Kawasaki 350 Triple Posts: 448
|
Quote:
About your question, I'd say that the wet car in a warm environment will raise the humidity of the air in the garage, and this might impact on your bike somewhat. But unless the salt actually touches the bike, I doubt that it would have any effect on the bike. |
|
|
November 29th, 2009, 06:39 PM | #10 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Remy
Location: Moncton
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '04 sv650s Posts: 438
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
There's 2 types of people in this world, those who complain and those who act. |
|
|
November 29th, 2009, 07:40 PM | #11 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Lil One
Location: NB Canada
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250 Black Posts: A lot.
|
the last 2 cages(Nissans) that i have owned started rusting after just 3 years and i dont have a garage.
__________________________________________________
I'm not small, I'm fun sized |
|
November 29th, 2009, 09:20 PM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Rob
Location: Montreal, Canada
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250R Posts: 171
|
I kind of figured as much but i left my bicycle in a shed with the pool chlorine and all the nuts were rusted badly come spring. I know salt is way different but you never know.
__________________________________________________
Back on the road again Season 2010 Dam it feels good! |
|
December 2nd, 2009, 05:41 PM | #13 | |
ATGATT Squid Killer
Name: Chad
Location: So. Cal
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '06 CBR600 Posts: 189
|
Quote:
|
|
|
December 2nd, 2009, 06:10 PM | #14 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ken
Location: NY
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Candy Plasma Blue Posts: 129
|
Quote:
Posted via Mobile Device |
|
|
December 2nd, 2009, 11:14 PM | #15 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Anthony
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2005 Kawasaki Ninja ZZR 250; 1996 Suzuki Katana GSXF 600; 80s Yamaha 650 Special; 70s Kawasaki 350 Triple Posts: 448
|
"A rule of thumb is that the reaction rate doubles with a 20F to 50F temperature rise." The way I read this was as when the temperature rises from 20F to 50F, a 30 degree F temperature rise. And though not strictly linear, I would think that the corrosion rate would be approximately doubled again given another 30 degree F temperature rise.
|
|
December 4th, 2009, 08:14 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.
|
I read somewhere to rinse of salt with cold water.
|
|
December 4th, 2009, 08:53 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Karl
Location: Ireland the Hawaii of Europe!
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R Fuel Injected Model 2009 Posts: 357
|
Cars in the USA must be really badly built.
My family does not have a garage, cars have been kept outside in the rain, rarely washed in the winter and rust is almost never an issue. My brothers car has some rust as he got a scratch in the paint and left it untreated. Otherwise it would be fine. My car is 5 years old and has never been inside a garage, not a spot of rust. Of course it helps that we have smaller engines over here and garages are rare, so cars have to be built to last. Its not unusual for a car to come with a 3 year warranty with a 10 year no rust warranty also thrown in. The fact we have small engines means the cars have to be lighter. Mine has an aluminum(does not rust as such) hood/bonnet, plastic front wings, aluminum or plastic for most other things, glass roof (weighs about as much as steel but it won't rust, it will just collect bird poop) To sell a car that rusts within 20 years of it being sold would be unthinkable to most manufacturers. When a car is 5 years old it has to be tested and it will fail if it has any rust, or a bulb gone, or leaks oil or the stars on the euro flag are not visible on the flag on the reg plate, or the yellow bulbs are not yellow enough, or the headlights are not perfectly alligned, etc, etc, etc. My car is due a test soon
__________________________________________________
My vlogs on Youtube are here |
|
December 4th, 2009, 05:38 PM | #18 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
|
It's not the surface rust that's an issue, the cars available in Ireland are the same cars available here, don't worry. In cold climates, at least here in North America, roads are often intentionally covered with salt through much of the winter. It helps deal with snow and ice to make traveling safer. But all of that salt that sticks to much of the underside of a car and any exposed mechanical parts, eats away and eventually causes rust much sooner than folks may expect. Heck, the latest and greatest Toyota pickups were just recalled for excessive rusting on their frame when exposed to salt. Here in warmer climates, and even in wetter climates, rust isn't nearly the problem it once was, just as you described. It's common to see decades old cars here with zero rust issues for the life of the car.
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered) |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[faster and faster] - Jay Leno's Garage: 1981 Honda CBX | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | December 31st, 2012 07:40 AM |
[faster and faster] - Jay Leno's Garage: 1971 Velocette Thruxton | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | December 17th, 2012 06:40 PM |
[faster and faster] - Jay Leno's Garage: 1976 MV Agusta 750 America | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | November 5th, 2012 06:50 AM |
[faster and faster] - Jay Leno's Garage: 1922 Megola Touring | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | August 28th, 2012 03:00 AM |
[faster and faster] - Jay Leno's Garage: 1931 Henderson KJ Police Special | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | August 17th, 2012 02:40 AM |
|
|