April 17th, 2017, 10:17 AM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 "sold" 2014 ninja 300 "Gold" 2000 DRZ400S (Sold the POS) K7 GSXR600 (Also POS...see a pattern? Posts: 207
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2014 stator issues?
So I have a 2014 ninja 300 with abs and this is the second time the stator has died on on me, both times at almost exactly 20k miles. I was curious how many others are having this issue and if anyone might know why?
@rgx107 you mentioned yours was at 56k km ~34k miles Anyone else withave high miles and this issue?
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April 19th, 2017, 02:48 AM | #2 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Anthony
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Join Date: Apr 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Ninja 300 ABS, sold 2008 ZX6R, sold 2012 KLX-450R Posts: 5
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I'm having the same issue at the moment, same year, same model. Mine has 25,000km on it.
I've tested the regulator/rectifier, and there is a definite problem there, though whether or not it's the cause or a symptom. I've discussed this problem with an auto-elecky, and he has suggested that the stator/magnets need to be receiving battery power in order for it to generate the 35v. I'm curious as to whether or not the battery power has to go through the rectifier first, and the dodgy rectifier is preventing any power reaching stator... I haven't had a chance to do any further tests just yet, but thought I'd pass along my queries and hope they help! Let me know if you have any breakthroughs yourself, as I'm at a loss at the moment |
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April 30th, 2017, 04:23 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 "sold" 2014 ninja 300 "Gold" 2000 DRZ400S (Sold the POS) K7 GSXR600 (Also POS...see a pattern? Posts: 207
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Well it was definitely my stator that was toast, had the whole thing burned up with an exposed wire. luckily it is a pretty easy swap! found a used one for 250 or so.
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April 30th, 2017, 04:25 PM | #4 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 "sold" 2014 ninja 300 "Gold" 2000 DRZ400S (Sold the POS) K7 GSXR600 (Also POS...see a pattern? Posts: 207
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Quote:
stator>R/R>battery>rest of the bike(ignition ecu etc) I am not the greatest with electricity though so take this with a grain of salt.
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April 30th, 2017, 06:19 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Anthony
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Join Date: Apr 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Ninja 300 ABS, sold 2008 ZX6R, sold 2012 KLX-450R Posts: 5
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That's great, thank you.
As it turns out, I pulled my stator out too and one of the wires is fried! I'm finding that to get it re-wound is over $300, and a new one is over $600! You wouldn't be able to point me in the direction that you got yours from, would you? |
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April 30th, 2017, 06:29 PM | #6 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 "sold" 2014 ninja 300 "Gold" 2000 DRZ400S (Sold the POS) K7 GSXR600 (Also POS...see a pattern? Posts: 207
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Quote:
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April 30th, 2017, 06:34 PM | #7 |
ninjette.org newbie
Name: Anthony
Location: Gold Coast, Australia
Join Date: Apr 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Ninja 300 ABS, sold 2008 ZX6R, sold 2012 KLX-450R Posts: 5
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Ahh, I didn't notice that you were over in the USA! I'm in Australia, and everything seems to be more expensive here! I might look on US EBay and see what I can find.
Thanks for the advice, and let me know how your new stator goes! |
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April 30th, 2017, 06:38 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 "sold" 2014 ninja 300 "Gold" 2000 DRZ400S (Sold the POS) K7 GSXR600 (Also POS...see a pattern? Posts: 207
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Oh shoot, my bad! idk will ricks ship to and from australia? You may just have a little longer of a down time.
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April 30th, 2017, 06:39 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
Join Date: Dec 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 "sold" 2014 ninja 300 "Gold" 2000 DRZ400S (Sold the POS) K7 GSXR600 (Also POS...see a pattern? Posts: 207
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Maybe you could try an add in the selling forum? someone may get it to you a bit cheaper in there, they aren't so bad here
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April 30th, 2017, 08:42 PM | #10 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Look for companies that rebuild electric motors. I'm sure a motorsports company would sub the stator out of one of those. Guys I know who have found rebuilders directly pay around $200-ish.
Of course check out the charging system to be sure something else isn't causing the stator to overheat. |
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May 1st, 2017, 05:07 AM | #11 |
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Is Kawasaki still using the old, toaster oven shunt type regulators on the 300?
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May 1st, 2017, 05:16 AM | #12 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Joe
Location: Lancaster CA
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Something like this what you mean? If so yes 👍
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November 13th, 2017, 10:10 PM | #13 |
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Name: john
Location: Champlin,Mn
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): '00 SV650,'02 EX250,'15 EX300 Posts: 99
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I know it is months later but
I started hard wiring that is eliminating the regulator plug on my bikes back in the 90s. The first was a gs1000 after it failed and I read the "Stator Papers" on the GS forum. Everything after that including my '02 Futura(some of those even caught fire) got the mod. There also was a writeup somewhere about a superior type of regulation system that wasn't used due to cost difference. I'll be modding the 300 over the winter and checking to see if I've done the others already-can't remember! The factories continuing building these flaws into their bikes smacks of Detroit-especially GM! My'95 Camry is pushing 330K!!
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November 14th, 2017, 06:12 AM | #14 |
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if Kaw still using old style shunt, I'd suggest upgrading to a mosfet type RR, wiring direct from stator, eliminating the mid connector
At one time Honda VFR had a chronic problem with common occurring burning connectors and charge system failures. When I acquired, my own RR heated up smokin' hot within a minute or 2 from cold startup. Seeing the writing on the wall....prior to any failure I sourced and installed an older ZX10 Shindengen mosfet regulator....cool running and dead reliable...that was 7 full seasons ago, no hiccups since. Added a LED type voltage monitor as well for instant notice of any issues. Worked so well, I did the same on my older Ducati 900SS, again dead reliable since.
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November 14th, 2017, 09:22 AM | #15 |
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AH SO
Is that the brand name or circuit type? It may be the better unit I read about. Any info online as to what bikes used those? If I remember right the old GS system pumped all excess power back into windings so they had to dissipate lots of heat leading to insulation breakdown. Do you happen to know what our Ninjas and the SVs use? Thanks,GJ oops just noticed you said mofset/mosfet-i think that was system name.
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November 14th, 2017, 10:07 AM | #16 |
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Shindengen is the Japanese manufacturer. It is indeed a Mosfet (though still a shunt type) The more modern transistors run much much cooler....the old EX500 regulators went UNCHANGED from late 80's design to when they were discontinued in '06.,,,and as they aged, they frequently cooked themselves from inside/out.
the Shindengen Mosfet I used back then was their model FH010, it was OEM on the ZX10 from 04 through 06 or 07? .....nowadays there are later model FH020. I still use FH010 in EX500 applications....incredibly reliable, affordable and available. Can be used on EX250 and 500, though some wiring trickery must occur. I custom build an RR adaptor harness which plugs in to the bikes existing harness....that is what is pictured above. I think member Ghostt is running an FH010 on his 250. Not sure what RR is supplied on the 300, though. The latest and greatest is now the "SERIES" type regulator. Google that, not a shunt and much more $$$.
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November 14th, 2017, 02:12 PM | #17 |
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They're really not new, and with PM alternators, they can cause voltage spikes that the alternator coils aren't designed for. Permanent magnet alternators don't mind being shunted, and in fact run cooler and with less drag when dead shorted than when putting out their design voltage. In other words, you're not going to do better than a well made shunt regulator on our PM alternators.
Last futzed with by Triple Jim; November 14th, 2017 at 03:49 PM. |
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November 15th, 2017, 07:29 AM | #18 |
ninjette.org member
Name: john
Location: Champlin,Mn
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): '00 SV650,'02 EX250,'15 EX300 Posts: 99
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I tripped again!!
No not acid-more like stubbing ones toes. Over on SV the first gen mod section (first topic in fact)regards rrs. It calls out an FH008 as perfect for early SVs. As it is smaller and put out 35a it might be right for Ninjettes. My SV is at 66k so mayhap it get this mod. Have to look over the Winter as a PO may have done some such or maybe several stators.
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April 10th, 2020, 10:48 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Topaz
Location: South Florida
Join Date: Mar 2017 Motorcycle(s): 2013 Ninja 300 / Suzuki DR-Z 400 SM Posts: 214
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2013 N300 stator replace.
Hello, it's my turn to replace the stator on my N300. Looking for advice and opinions.
My bike is a 2013 N300 at 15k miles. I went riding, ten minutes later, the red battery light came on, and ten minutes later the bike died riding at highway speed. Back home, I checked the battery and wasn't good, so I replaced it. It was three years old. Now, with a good battery, I checked the stator. Continuity seems to be good, but AC voltage output reads very low. Between 5V and 10V at 4k RPM. Also, voltage at the battery reads low as well. It doesn't reach 13v at 4000+ RPM's. The R/R doesn't measure well either, but, from what I've read, that may be because my multimeter is a cheap one. Both the service manual and what I've found on line recommend to use only a good multimeter to check the R/R. So now I'm looking for stators and found that a US company called ElectroSports make the stator for the N300. Has anyone had experience with this? They go for 159 + tax and shpping. here is the link: https://www.electrosport.com/product...ki-ninja-ex300 OEM brand new goes for $400+ and take off's from eBay go for around $140. Also, the Kawi liquid gasket that goes around the rubber grommet where the wires come out of the stator cover seems to be very expensive too. Is there a good aftermarket product to use instead of the sotck one? Any advice? Thanks |
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April 10th, 2020, 07:58 PM | #20 |
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Try Yamabond-4 for sealant... from your Yamaha dealer of course. Don't ride Ninja to close to shop, they may not sell it to you.
If so, go to Toyota and get their FIPG material. Used to seal gasket-less metal-to-metal interfaces like oil-pan to block. |
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April 11th, 2020, 06:38 AM | #21 | |
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Quote:
stator *unplugged* from harness, bike running 4K RPM...meter set to AC volts....checking between each of the stators' 3 legs....1-2 2-3 1-3 Please post your 3 separate AC voltage readings You need to isolate, testing stator output first...then RR and verify integrity of all wiring and connectors between ...no breaks, corrosion, resistance, blah blah.
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April 11th, 2020, 07:31 AM | #22 | |
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Quote:
Yes, I followed the service manual instructions and did what you said. Stator unplugged, bike running at 4k RPM's, meter reading AC voltage, and checked all three combinations on the stator plug. In all three readings, voltage would never go higher than 5V. When measuring the resistance between any of the three connectors to the frame, I would get 0L, so I guess the stator is not grounded. Again, my multimeter is a $15 multimeter, but if I measure the voltage on the house wall outlet, I get 110V, so it looks like it's working. Also, after I installed the new battery (acid on and slow charge), I checked the voltage on the battery terminals at 4k RMP's and wouldn't reach 13V. Then, with the new battery, I went for a test ride, and after 10-15 mins, the red battery light came on. I headed back home, turned off the bike and the battery voltage had dropped to 11.8V. The bike is 2013, garage kept, 15k miles. All wires and connectors look clean and in very good condition. I'm actually surprised that the stator went bad at 15k miles, but I've read on line that it was common on 2013's and 2014's N300. |
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April 12th, 2020, 08:57 PM | #23 |
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Definitely sounds like bad stator. They fail due to insulation of magnet-wire in windings melting from heat and shorts-circuiting across to neighboring wire. This heat is caused by running stator at full-output continuously due to way charging circuit is designed.
More efficient regulation is that series-regulator ducatiman mentioned. Modern versions are much better than previous ones and only draw as much power from stator as needed for charging and running light & electronics. A lot of this design improvement comes from increased use of LED lighting and buck/boost regulators used in that market. Series regulator reduce load on entire charging system and load on engine as well. Not uncommon to see 5-10% improvement in MPG. I'm also putting on on my race-bike as removing that kind of parasitc drag is worth couple seconds per lap. |
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April 13th, 2020, 05:53 AM | #24 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Permanent magnet alternators do not suffer from overcurrent when the regulator shunts current to ground. They also do not require more engine torque to turn them when shunted. I first discovered this when testing regulators that I manufacture, using a variable speed motor driven motorcycle alternator in my bench test setup. The torque required to turn the alternator is actually least when its output is completely shorted. This is because very little electrical work is being done when the output voltage is zero and current is limited by the permanent magnet field.
Going to a series type regulator can offer some advantage, but it can also cause problems from high voltages resulting from opening the circuit when regulating, depending on the exact design of the series regulator. https://www.ninjette.org/forums/atta...1&d=1586782685 Last futzed with by Triple Jim; April 13th, 2020 at 12:34 PM. |
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April 13th, 2020, 12:10 PM | #25 | |
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Quote:
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April 13th, 2020, 12:28 PM | #26 | |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Quote:
This all or nothing approach is why a shunt regulator doesn't have to dissipate huge amounts of power. Note that the input to the regulator (alternator output) is what's shunted to ground, not the regulator output, which sits at battery voltage! |
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April 13th, 2020, 12:46 PM | #27 |
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Output voltage of zero at stator output means full voltage drop before RR. Zero voltage means full-output of stators are going to ground. It’s like measuring ground-wire of light-bulb, it’s going to be zero after all power has been dissipated by bulb. More accurate to measure stator output in amps rather than voltage.
Here’s good test: 1. Measure VAC and amps output of stator @4000rpms with RR connected with no load 2. Measure VAC and amps output of stator @4000rpms with RR connected and powering headlight Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; April 13th, 2020 at 01:48 PM. |
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May 3rd, 2020, 02:28 PM | #28 |
ninjette.org member
Name: john
Location: Champlin,Mn
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Bottom line??
What is the consensus now? Are the standard regs the issue or are the stator windings also? Winding coatings can be of varying quality/lifespan as are the reg components. Will the rev upgrade really help the windings. The discussion inferred better the ran cooler. Does that also change the operating temp of the stator? Unfortunately I can't remember if I've done anything to the older bikes as "Brainfade" plus not writing down what has been done afflicts me-74 on 15th. I do have volunteers on all of them so at least there's something to indicate deterioration.
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May 3rd, 2020, 03:44 PM | #29 |
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UPDATE: Got the parts and changed the stator. So far so good. Battery reading at 4k rpm's is 13.9 V, I did some rides. About 100 miles in all. No red lights on the cluster. Battery reading after ride with engine off is 12.5V
I tried to read the output of the stator at 4k RPM's but my multimeter gave 0L, which I guess it means 'reading out of range', but it doesn't have AC range as it should be automatic. Trusting this multimeter less and less. I may get a better one soon. I was very close to pay $160+ for the Electrosport aftermarket stator when a cheap OEM take off showed up on eBay for $65 shipped so I gambled there. Not sure if it was the smarter thing. Worst fear is to loose a track day because of another burned OEM stator. Fingers crossed. The stator cover gasket seemed to be in good condition so I kept it and so far no leaks. The Yamaha liquid gasket worked fine too. |
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May 3rd, 2020, 04:13 PM | #30 |
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Hi, good job on getting that repaired!
One useful gauge is infrared pyrometer to get temperature of stator-cover. Could be used as proxy-indicator of stator-output. Can also used at track to measure tyre-temperatures right after getting off track. Another useful tool is to get AC clamp meter (non-contact claw), and see what kind of AC-current is flowing out of your stator. |
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October 30th, 2020, 12:54 PM | #31 |
ninjette.org member
Name: john
Location: Champlin,Mn
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Changing 3 bikes!
Did SV first then 250 with nice results. Just got 300 on work stand and am thinking tool tray is great spot to mount it. I'm impressed with these regulators and hope they last. The SV got a used stator also as the Chinese one lasted 900 miles. It was free after I complained to seller that it was much smaller than OEM and not plastic dipped as well(sent pix). Their Ebay ads are sometimes iffy as the unit was said to fit many Suzukis including mine but appears to be made for a smaller model street bike of 125-300cc perhaps.
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September 15th, 2021, 07:40 PM | #32 |
ninjette.org member
Name: john
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Mosfet failure!!??
The 250's battery was flat, charged to 12.4v, started but meter went to 17volts! New battery installed but still overcharge. I'd say stator is not issue with all that voltage. I'm thinking weak battery damaged regulation circuitry. Anyone else familiar with this issue. My 300 and sv650 have same unit but are working fine (crossed fingers).
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September 15th, 2021, 07:49 PM | #33 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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If the charging system caused the battery to go to 17 volts the regulator is not working. I can't tell you why though. A weak battery is not a cause of a failed regulator.
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September 16th, 2021, 08:48 AM | #34 |
ninjette.org member
Name: john
Location: Champlin,Mn
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Hey Jim
Pix worth more than my Noodle! I believe my sanno mounting job caused the failure. The SV's unit is also in iffy place so some repositioning is needed. Both of those are under the seat so safe from all elements including air! I had the 300's tail apart searching until a memory cell had me look in nose.
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September 16th, 2021, 09:21 AM | #35 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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The regulator does need to be where air flows over it when riding.
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September 17th, 2021, 10:37 AM | #36 |
ninjette.org member
Name: john
Location: Champlin,Mn
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DUH??!!
Gee, maybe it could go where the original sat. Unit out of SV still ok so 250 live. In my decades as a mechanic such oopsies were rare. Now not so much. I've been fixing a chainsaw and couldn't find the air filter cover. Couldn't remember if it was missing when I started on the saw. Looked online and just a little black plastic thingy. Searched shop 4-6 times and nothing. Ordered one and the next day I found this. I quit working on other people's machines a few years back. When the brain cells seem to be sleeping you folks on the web come to the rescue. UNLESS I ask the WIFE!!
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