August 28th, 2009, 03:38 PM | #41 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
try looking in the jetting database and see if anyone has a setup close to what you are thinking of and use their setup as a guide. you'll need to fine tune as you go.
I will say, once you start rejetting you 'll have your fill of modding as it's a never ending job looking to the prefect combination as you experiment with different setups. either jet kit would work.. they are both tools. You need to learn to use those tools effectively for max output. my suggestion is to leave the bike stock for now and shim your needles... pull the snorkel when you shim. when you have a full exhaust, then pull the airbox and install a jet kit at that time. |
|
August 28th, 2009, 03:44 PM | #42 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Vinh
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153
|
aw, but ive already shimmed and desnorkeled i want to do more! but dont exactly want to spend 500 on an areaP YET.. i will maybe for xmas but not now
__________________________________________________
Black 09 Ninja 250R|Shogun Crash Kit|Woodcraft Full Rearsets|Proton Flush LEDs|De-Snorkeled|Shimmed|K&N|Red Rim Tape|ProGrips|Puig|10K HIDs|15T Front |
|
August 28th, 2009, 03:50 PM | #43 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
if you yank the airbox, I don't now anyone who has done so that is still using the stock airbox. You would need to change the main jets. (costs about $5 each) I'd suggest using 110 Keihins to start and take plug readings to figure out if you need to go up or down from there.
that should keep you really busy. if you buy a jet kit, be sure to get one made for no airbox. |
|
August 28th, 2009, 03:55 PM | #44 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Vinh
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153
|
you mean stock exhaust?
i do plan on getting the dynojet stage 2 kit, didnt know there were ones specifically for no airbox.. is the dynojet one ok?
__________________________________________________
Black 09 Ninja 250R|Shogun Crash Kit|Woodcraft Full Rearsets|Proton Flush LEDs|De-Snorkeled|Shimmed|K&N|Red Rim Tape|ProGrips|Puig|10K HIDs|15T Front |
|
August 28th, 2009, 04:05 PM | #45 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
yeah, sorry... stock exhaust.
I know factory pro has kits for no airbox (using stand alone pods or filter) applications. they come with bigger main jets. |
|
August 28th, 2009, 04:19 PM | #46 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Vinh
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153
|
ah so i finally found what you meant on the fp site, part #CRB-K13-3.0 is for 88-07 250s with no airbox
but then i saw http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/foru...et-mods-52595/ which lists same part for 08s. are the jet kits compatible with 08/09s even though fp site says up to 07? hella expensive on the fp site... do you guys know any other sites that stock the appropriate jet kit?
__________________________________________________
Black 09 Ninja 250R|Shogun Crash Kit|Woodcraft Full Rearsets|Proton Flush LEDs|De-Snorkeled|Shimmed|K&N|Red Rim Tape|ProGrips|Puig|10K HIDs|15T Front |
|
August 28th, 2009, 04:23 PM | #47 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
|
|
August 28th, 2009, 04:29 PM | #48 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Vinh
Location: Maryland
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): Black 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: 153
|
ok i feel dumb. i think fp needs to redesign their website though, i feel like it was done in microsoft frontpage of a high schooler.
thanks kelly!
__________________________________________________
Black 09 Ninja 250R|Shogun Crash Kit|Woodcraft Full Rearsets|Proton Flush LEDs|De-Snorkeled|Shimmed|K&N|Red Rim Tape|ProGrips|Puig|10K HIDs|15T Front |
|
August 28th, 2009, 05:51 PM | #49 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Noob time for me. Plug readings are? The method for figuring out 'up, down or stay' that I've been told/seen is take the bike for a ride and try to decide if it's pulling harder or not mod-range. Is the 'plug reading' more accurate/easier?
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
August 28th, 2009, 06:08 PM | #50 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
plug reading to select the correct main is the most accurate. If done correctly, it gives you a snapshot of what temps are being produced in the combustion chamber.
too lean = white just right = light tan too rich= black/sooty there's a lot more that can be told from reading your plug conditions, but for picking the right main jet this is basically what you need to know. http://www.superstreetonline.com/tec.../photo_03.html http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbik....jsp?id=332655 |
|
August 28th, 2009, 06:19 PM | #51 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Ah ha. Thanks. That'll make things much easier for me when I pull the box and rejet in the upcoming weeks. Was dreading trying to remember 'is it pulling harder now or before?' for every jet in the set.
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
August 28th, 2009, 06:28 PM | #52 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
depending on what your intake/exhaust setup will finally be, you can check the jetting database for good starting places on how to initially set your jetting. after that, it's fine tuning for your location and particular bike.
you can start all over w/ plug checks, but why do that when people before you have done the work, which is sorta the reason for the database. I mentioned plug checks for Hokie cause I have not seen a stock exhaust used with a pulled airbox configuration before and was giving him a best guess on a main to start out with. |
|
August 28th, 2009, 07:07 PM | #53 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Ahh so plug checks are more of a 'rough tune' while fine tuning is just judging how well the buke runs for you on a given setting? Or Plug checks work all the way thru to fine tuned (but I suspect the gradations would be a bit harder to differentiate). Haven't done fine tuning of much of anything before.
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
August 28th, 2009, 09:08 PM | #54 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
plug checks can be used to fine tune, but you really need to know how to read the plugs. For basic, ballpark main jet settings, what I listed on plug colors are close enough.
Plug readings are really useful in 2 stroke applications, where being off by just a little bit seems to make a life or death difference to an engine. on 4 strokes, like our bikes, I see a lot more tolerance to bad jetting before the engine is destroyed. That's why I recommended using the jetting database as a start. You might be happy with those settings and you could live with it and be perfectly happy. again, be mindful that jetting can vary, so no one setting is "right", but needs to be fine tuned to gain the maximum. I prefer my jetting be a bit on the rich side than lean. For me, rejetting has produced a little bit more top end HP, but the biggest gain was in the power gained overall to flatten out the power curve throughout the entire rev range of the bike. While before the bike was anemic on the lower end, had a nice midrange pull and died off towards the top end, the rejetted bike now pulls evenly from low rpm to redline. |
|
August 30th, 2009, 04:13 PM | #55 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Clint
Location: Utah
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 ER-6n 2009 Ninja 250 sold :( Posts: 61
|
Quote:
I have the stock exhaust still and I found the Keihin 100 main jet with 4 washers under the stock needles and the pilot screws turned 2.5 turns out worked pretty good for me. The plug color after partial and full throttle runs looks pretty good and it pulls noticeably harder than stock from idle to redline. It also feels a little smoother when transitioning from coasting to partial throttle acceleration. Getting the airbox out was a pain but when you start tuning the carbs it makes it worth every second of it to have all that open space in there! The stock exhaust sounds noticeably different without the airbox in there as well. I am at 4700 feet above sea level and I may be a little closer to being lean than rich in a few spots at the moment so please take that into consideration when looking at these numbers. I think the 105 main would be better for me (I haven't had time to try it yet though) so Kelly's suggestion of a 110 would be a great place to start for anyone at a lower elevation. I hope to have my new exhaust on sometime in the next week and I will post my new settings after I get that installed.
__________________________________________________
"Never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" -Unknown Last futzed with by Nevrfastenuf; August 31st, 2009 at 05:42 AM. |
|
|
September 1st, 2009, 10:59 AM | #56 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
In the OP I see Vex mentions needing/remembering late that the gear box needed a breather when pulling the box. Anyone happen to save the specs for the size of that tube (or other important measurements) so I can get a breather ahead of time? Likely gonna end up doing this in noche or another friend's garage, so the fewer trips I have to make to the auto parts store the better. Thanks!
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
September 1st, 2009, 03:14 PM | #57 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Kim
Location: mundo de ensueño
Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): '08 250 Posts: A lot.
|
well, at least the worst case is advanced about 2 mins away, or autozone at about 5
__________________________________________________
Progrip tank pad, blue rim stripes, blue Pazzos, Roaring Toyz lowering kit, Puig DB in dark smoke, Cortech sport tail, super mini tank, and saddlebags, OES swingarm spools and Intuitive frame sliders |
|
September 6th, 2009, 02:08 PM | #58 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
For reference, to connect to the end of the gearbox breather tube, it's 10mm inner diameter, 15mm outer. To connect directly to the gearbox nipple and bypass that looping tube, the OD is 22mm. I wound up just getting a double-male vacuum tube connector to bridge between the 10mm and my 12mm inner diameter cheapie breather.
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
December 27th, 2009, 12:09 PM | #59 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Dude!!
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 443
|
Now that the air filter is exposed, wouldn't this be dangerous when it gets wet (i.e. rain) and lead to damage to the bike?
|
|
December 29th, 2009, 10:46 PM | #60 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Dude!!
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 443
|
^^ Hydrolock... that's the word I was looking for.
|
|
December 29th, 2009, 10:49 PM | #61 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
for the bike to hydrolock, you would need the water level at the height of the air filter which would put it about up to the seat. if you're in that deep water, you've got other problems besides worrying about your bike being hydrolocked.
|
|
December 29th, 2009, 11:24 PM | #62 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Dude!!
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 443
|
Pardon my n00biness, but wouldn't getting the filter wet from rain (or washing the bike) do something similar?
|
|
December 30th, 2009, 12:17 AM | #63 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
hydrolock occurs when the cylinders fill up with water and the pistons can't compress the liquid filled cylinders... usually when the engine is running.
water on your filter from rain or washing is not going to do that. in fact, some people use a water spray/fogging to clean the carbon out of their engines. I wouldn't do that, but not because of any concern of hydrolocking the engine. |
|
December 30th, 2009, 11:58 AM | #64 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Dude!!
Location: Southern California
Join Date: Dec 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 250r Posts: 443
|
Quote:
|
|
|
December 30th, 2009, 01:43 PM | #65 |
no joy
Name: Six
Location: Cali
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 2006 636 Posts: 408
|
I live in a sandy dessert area- sand every where-
Could i do this ? how often do you change it? seems like a pita to change... |
|
December 30th, 2009, 02:11 PM | #66 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
how often do you have to change what?
|
|
December 30th, 2009, 02:17 PM | #67 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Assuming you're talking about replacing the air filter pod once the airbox is gone, IIRC, the K&N filters are guaranteed for either 100,000 or 1,000,000 miles, provided you clean them out every so often (think it's 50,000 miles). I'll check the product stuff when I get home if you'd like. Essentially you shouldn't need to change it.
Since I imagine the air filter was designed to remove the exact particulate that you've got a lot of, amongst others, I don't see what would be an issue. I imagine it'd be fine in sandy environments provided you made sure the seals to the carb were tight (keep from sucking unfiltered air in) and kept an eye on how clogged it gets (which is easy since you can see it even with the black leg protector plates on the bike). However I'm neither an expert nor a California resident. That said, very easy to remove/change at all if you decide to replace or clean it. Especially when you compare how much of a hassle it is to get that airbox out...
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
December 30th, 2009, 02:25 PM | #68 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Greg
Location: Rhode Island
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.
|
Watch offshore powerboat racing, those things suck in some h20
|
|
December 31st, 2009, 02:01 PM | #69 | |
You are sleeping
Name: Casey
Location: LMFAO!!!
Join Date: Nov 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Some dirt bikes use an unrestrictive foam element over their air intake filter. I'd imagine you could find one at a dirt shop if it's really bad. I do notice my bike gets pretty dusty very quick out here then again I've been riding it in dirt too. haha |
|
|
January 1st, 2010, 09:05 PM | #70 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Mikel
Location: Valley of the Sun
Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Blue Kawasaki KLE650 Versys, '95 Ducati 900SS/CR (undergoing track conversion) Posts: 287
|
Has anyone, aside from me, thought of cutting the airbox with a dremel to have the stability of the framework and use the K&N single pod connected much the way KKim has his?
Sixer, there are "Outerwears" made for sandy/desert off road vehicles that go over the K&N filter to help filter even more and makes for an easy pull off and clean element to give your K&N more life. One of the items I am looking for here in the High Desert when I get down to the point I make this mod. rejet and add an exhaust. |
|
January 2nd, 2010, 02:28 PM | #71 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Ken
Location: NY
Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Candy Plasma Blue Posts: 129
|
Here's a link to the water repellent Outerwears prefilter for the K&N R-0990 filter.
http://www.outerwears.net/proddetail.asp?prod=4128 They also have a regular one that is not water repellent. http://www.outerwears.net/proddetail.asp?prod=756 |
|
January 2nd, 2010, 06:41 PM | #72 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Anyone measure the length of the runners that are inside the air filter once one has done this? Curious if it's a close fit to the back wall of the K&N (potentially restricting airflow) or ir if there's more clearance than I think. I'm set up this way, but it's about 13F outside now and I don't have a garage, so it's a little cold to strip the bike down to satisfy curiosity.
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
March 27th, 2010, 06:37 AM | #73 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.
|
what were to happen if i just plugged that hose/hole up? i cant get a small small air filter for this hose.
in the meantime i just improvised and created a filter with quick dry foam and some fabric... here is another lil .gif i just made up from todays K&N installation~ took quite a while to get it all down and back together, lol http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...rboxdelete.gif thats a link to a higher res .gif W.
__________________________________________________
Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
|
March 27th, 2010, 07:04 AM | #74 |
Psychic war veteran
Name: Thomas
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Kawi Green '09 Ninja ZX6R Posts: 663
|
You'll need something, as that's the crank case breather.
__________________________________________________
* If you're arguing with some idiot over the internet, chances are pretty good he's doing the same thing! Zodiac Mindwarp and the Love Reaction |
|
March 27th, 2010, 11:25 AM | #75 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
Yes, you can't block off that hole. You can blow your crankcase seals if it's not allowed to breathe. I use a cheap gasoline filter that fits the hose.
|
|
March 28th, 2010, 06:36 PM | #76 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.
|
okay, all clear, i wont block the crank breather! ill see if i can find a fuel filter to do the job. my temporary sponge and cloth filter looks a little out of place in my bike, ha ha
so this morning i finally had the chance to ride the bike, i wasn't able to push her to red line cos it was rush hour, and the roads were chockablock. however i noticed an unfamiliar sound when im in the lower Rev range. like when i start accelerating from a slow speed (10~15mph) in 2nd gear, i get a really throaty gurgling sound from like 3k~6k rpm, then once im into the mid/high rpm range it goes away. the sound is definitely coming in from the carbs (right under the seat). however i don't hear this when i am just revving the bike when its parked, so its something that only happens when there is a force on the back wheel. --------------------------------- i have noticed another small issue when installing the K&N filter, and its that its resting on the metal/rubber ring that used to hold one corner of the OEM filter (where Kelly put the pipe through to the right of the filter in his picture) i am wondering if i should do the same mod as kelly with extending the runner pieces from the stock filter? Kelly, did you end up keeping that set up with the extended pipe? or did you plug the filter in directly to the carbs again? thanks in advance peace out~
__________________________________________________
Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
|
March 28th, 2010, 07:01 PM | #77 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Paul
Location: Roanoke, VA
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Candy Plasma Blue 250R Posts: A lot.
|
I think the sucking sound is your carbs drawing in much more air than they used to. Give it a LOT of throttle briefly while standing still (like from closed/idle to half or 3/4 open) and I think you'll hear the same sound you're describing. If that's it, it's the way your bike breathes now. I'll try to get a recording of mine in the next day or so for comparison.
For what it's worth, I left my stock runners on, but ran a big zip tie around the filter between the runners & attached it to the zip tie holding up the carb. But whether you use the runners or not MAKE SURE YOU TIGHTEN YOUR CLAMPS! I didn't tighten mine enough the first time around and the carb end of one runner fell off; sucked in road crud for an unknown period. Got to spend about a week & a half cleaning dust & gravel out of my carbs & engine because of that.
__________________________________________________
Proud member of the Blue Army |
|
March 28th, 2010, 10:22 PM | #78 |
Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.
|
I still have the extenders from the stock airbox installed as in that picture. bike runs fine.
|
|
March 29th, 2010, 01:19 AM | #79 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
besides the filter being in contact with the metal ring, its also touching on the fuel tank tap, i don't like the idea of these parts all chafing together, im sure it will damage the metal wire mesh of the K&N filter in a very short time... so, i just went on another ride, and the gurgling sound that i was talking about it most audible between 5k and 6k rpm, when im opening the throttle. i can hear a similar sound when i WOT while the bike is parked, but the sound only lasts for a split second (coming out of the lower into the mid RPM as well), but its there! i guess im taking my bike apart again when i get home! yippie, lol... the bike pulls decently all the way up to redline, but i am not sure if its better or worse than before i replaced the air filter and re-jetted... i think im gonna pass by the dyno place next week end and have them run it again to compare it with the old dyno run. i mean i would expect an increase, be a little dissapointed if it didnt change, and definitely be annoyed if the dyno got worse, ha ha... well it just means ill have to figure out what needs fine tuning, get the right jets, and tune her some more. cheers all
__________________________________________________
Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
|
|
March 29th, 2010, 02:38 AM | #80 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2014 Z250 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
or did you do some mild operations to them to remove these ribs? there they are circled in red~ looking forward to your reply master!
__________________________________________________
Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
DIY- Removing the Kleen Air System Hoses and Plugging the Holes on a 08 250R | kkim | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 152 | March 15th, 2019 07:37 PM |
K&N air filter to stock air box | Graugaard | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 29 | July 28th, 2012 06:33 AM |
Air Filter Box Question | Little Green Machine | 2008 - 2012 Ninja 250R Tech Talk | 7 | July 14th, 2012 06:25 AM |
|
|