5 motorcyclists killed in San Diego

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by j98sprint

I'm not blaming the riders in that pack, just saying they could have been better prepared for the inherently dangerous act of pack riding.
j98

Just curious what your source of info is on this accident. It sounds like you've read the accident report and know specific details about how they weren't better prepared in this case. Links and cites would be nice. Thanks!

[Alex]

Are you really curious, or are you just trying to make a point by asking a rhetorical question?

[Alex]

Originally Posted by j98sprint

If you've never heard of the Smith System of Driving check it out.

Here's a link to their info ----> clicky

My wife's company makes every employee (tens of thousands) take that class once per year, it apparently is related to the company insurance plan. All of the ideas have merit, but there are some quirks. One example is the method teaches that you should always back into a parking spot, no exceptions. The thinking is that many accidents occur when backing out of a parking spot. Makes sense academically, but then you imagine all (or even some) drivers trying to back into spots in busy parking lots, and I'm not sure the logic holds up everywhere.

[Cuongism]

Originally Posted by Alex

One example is the method teaches that you should always back into a parking spot, no exceptions. The thinking is that many accidents occur when backing out of a parking spot. Makes sense academically, but then you imagine all (or even some) drivers trying to back into spots in busy parking lots, and I'm not sure the logic holds up everywhere.

Very interesting, I've always done this and my gf makes fun of me for it when we were first together. After doing it for so long, it only takes a few extra seconds to do. I'm actually not sure how the habit started, but I think it's from living in NYC. I'd have to parallel park a few times every day so driving in reverse became very second nature.

Any place that had a parking lot (movie theatre, sports stadium, etc), generally have everyone leaving to the lot at the same time. Parking back in let's me get out of there safely and quickly.

On my motorcycles, it's the opposite. I back in when parallel parking or if there's a curb. In parking lots I park nose in and fender as close to the outside edge as possible to be visible.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Alex

Are you really curious, or are you just trying to make a point by asking a rhetorical question?

I'm serious. He made a pretty definitive statement, I'd like to follow up on his source of information. I follow these cases of multiple motorcyclists killed by bad drivers, like the drunk cop that hit those riders stopped at a light in Indianapolis and that high truck driver that plowed into that riding group stopped at a light in Phoenix and killed/maimed so many.

The DUI charges have been dropped against the cop, David Bisard, due to his fellow officers taking Bisard to a non-certified technician for the blood draw instead of the certified technician they normally take their other DUI cases to. Without the certification his BAC (double the legal limit) was not admissible. The Indianapolis Police report indicates the riders failed to move out of the way to the right as required by law, despite the fact that they had stopped vehicles in front of and to the right side of them and were physically unable to move in those directions. The left turn lane to their left was open and unoccupied, so they decided to stay put assuming Bisard would take that avenue. Instead he smashed them.

Michael Jakscht, the driver of the truck that killed four and injured more in the Phoenix crash was charged with 4 counts of manslaughter, 5 counts of aggravated assault and 7 counts of endangerment, and is being held on one million dollars bond. He tested positive for drugs. He'd also had a similar wreck just weeks before this one, and after they put him on close surveillance after the second crash he was picked up for driving erratically.

As to what difference riding in a group made in those two other wrecks, the only real difference is the number of riders killed in a single go. If each wreck had consisted of just one rider each, then each wreck would have resulted in just one fatality. What is there to infer from this fact? Well, I guess people will infer what they will.

So back to your original question: Yes, seriously. If he has info, I want it.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Very interesting, I've always done this and my gf makes fun of me for it when we were first together. After doing it for so long, it only takes a few extra seconds to do. I'm actually not sure how the habit started, but I think it's from living in NYC. I'd have to parallel park a few times every day so driving in reverse became very second nature.

Any place that had a parking lot (movie theatre, sports stadium, etc), generally have everyone leaving to the lot at the same time. Parking back in let's me get out of there safely and quickly.

On my motorcycles, it's the opposite. I back in when parallel parking or if there's a curb. In parking lots I park nose in and fender as close to the outside edge as possible to be visible.

Heh, I've backed in since I started driving over 30 years ago. Makes for a much safer exit, and a quicker get-away if necessary.

On the bike, I always park facing up hill after making the mistake one time of doing otherwise. No reverse in the Ninja. On flat I'll park nose in with the wheel turned and locked to make it harder for someone to get the bike out of the parking spot. At least, I hope it'll make it harder. Maybe that one extra second of delay will make the difference between riding home and walking home.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Cuongism

Very interesting, I've always done this and my gf makes fun of me for it when we were first together. After doing it for so long, it only takes a few extra seconds to do.

If that's the only thing your girlfriend makes fun of you for, you're doing just fine.

[Cuongism]

she actually makes fun of a lot of things about me. Apparently I have a ton of little quirks. I like to believe those little things makes her love me more.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

As to what difference riding in a group made in those two other wrecks, the only real difference is the number of riders killed in a single go. If each wreck had consisted of just one rider each, then each wreck would have resulted in just one fatality. What is there to infer from this fact? Well, I guess people will infer what they will.

There are two other differences that I will add. The way the wreck gets covered in the media, and people's reaction to the story (which can be related, but not necessarily). A wreck with multiple injuries or multiple fatalities gets more and deeper media coverage. Plus, people tend to be more shocked by such stories.

But as for preventing those accidents, you are probably right. Wouldn't have made the riders any safer to be alone.

[revstriker]

When I learned to drive almost 30 years ago, I too was taught to back into a parking space. Part of the reason for this was having a rear wheel drive car in the snow. Pulling straight out of a parking spot was easier (traction and visibility) than trying to back out. I still back in when I can, but I will admit I probably pull straight in more now. Gives me better access to my trunk. As for the bike, I typically back in to a spot, but then have the front tire even with the back of the cars next to it. I want someone to see the bike before they just zoom in to a spot they think is unoccupied. As to why I back in versus pulling straight in, I don't really have a good reason other than I'd rather ride out of the spot than have to back it out.

[revstriker]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

On the bike, I always park facing up hill after making the mistake one time of doing otherwise. No reverse in the Ninja.

LOL! This is a lesson I learned about 25 years ago, but I still remember it very well. I parked the bike in a loading zone at a factory between two trucks probably 4 feet apart. The ground was sloped toward the factory.When i went to leave, it was a struggle pushing that bike up that hill backward by myself.