December 5th, 2010, 02:56 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org member
Name: AL
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Ninja 250r 09 Cannot Start - Need Help (SOLVED!)
************************************************************ SOLVED *******************************************************
12/8 9:26PM EST - SOLVED --For more details look at the end of this POST. ***************** Ninja 250r 09 I am posting after reading over 30+ threads. I know my problem is similar to all those people, but very few had pictures,videos, or details on how they fixed it. And I dont want to take a risk and make things worse. Thats why I am asking for help from experts over here, I hope someone can help me here. Scenario Last weekend (Nov 27) I tried to start my bike but it didn't because the battery was very low. Since I didnt started for about 2 weeks because of the weather (NYC). And I think the battery went really low because of my alarm, I have a Gorilla 7017. So I read about push start and tried it but I was unable to put it in (2nd Gear) I tried it with 1st gear about 12 times, but unsuccessful. In the end I jump started with my van and I successfully started. I kept it running for about 15min and took it for a spin and ridden for about 20 mins. Next day I started for a check and it started it right away. Aal was well till this Sat (Dec 4). I try to start it without using choke lever at first, I could hear it start normally half way but it didn't because it was cold, since I didn't started for 5 days. Next I put the choke lever up all the way and push the start button. It STARTED but for only 10 seconds, then it turned off. The way it sounded I can tell because the bike was still cold. Then I thought maybe if I give it a little throttle in addtition to the choke lever it will start up. But I think this is what made it worse, when I click start it with a little throttle it was about start but then I heard clicking. Here are pictures and videos. Battery was okay but a little lower than normal I think: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In this video I tried to start normally. Before I start I honked to see if it sound normal, you can tell by the sound that its a little lower than normal. And you can hear the clicking noise I was talking about,
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube.
Link to original page on YouTube. Last futzed with by goodbadugly; December 8th, 2010 at 10:46 PM. |
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December 5th, 2010, 04:01 PM | #3 |
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If you're going to be replacing and have the money, consider a lighter and smaller battery.
http://www.fullspectrumpower.com/ http://www.antigravitybatteries.com/ |
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December 5th, 2010, 04:09 PM | #4 |
total N00B
Name: Rob
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+1 your battery is done
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December 5th, 2010, 04:42 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org member
Name: AL
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Thanks for the reply. If it's the battery then how come it didn't start while the jumper cables were plugged via van. This way the power is coming from van battery+bike battery. Also I let it charge for a while then unplugged it, everything was still lighting up after 5mins. Also if you look at the miles it's only 1381, from which 650 are mine.... Can the battery die that quickly
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December 5th, 2010, 05:06 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Thanks -AL |
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December 5th, 2010, 05:11 PM | #7 |
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cuz its dead....there's no defibrillator for it
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December 5th, 2010, 05:24 PM | #8 |
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The motorcycle battery is a very weak battery.They only last a couple years under the best conditions.If you battery has a dry cell. It will not flow current. Be careful there are ways of damaging diodes if you hook things up wrong or get a voltage spike.
The reason the bike will not crank with jumper leads hooked up is .You have both leads on the battery. It is best to hot shot a bike from a car with the car not running . Hook the red lead from the plus side of the car battery to the plus side of the motorcycle battery. Then hook the black lead from the negative side of the car battery to the chassis of the bike . bypassing the battery. it should crank. |
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December 5th, 2010, 05:47 PM | #9 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
Oh and what about this solenoid that some people case was..... Not my case |
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December 5th, 2010, 05:51 PM | #10 | ||
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Quote:
From what i've read, they offer more cold cranking amps than lead/acid batteries and can be left on the bike without a trickle charger longer than LA batts. Going over the FAQ on one of the sites: Quote:
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December 5th, 2010, 06:01 PM | #11 |
Resident Lurker
Name: Solomon
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Charge a motorcycle battery with a motorcycle-rated battery tender (no more than 1.5 amps). Using a van battery will work temporarily for jumping purposes, but it isn't an ideal way to charge your battery.
You should also consider investing in a cheap digital multimeter so that you can test how much voltage your battery has at any given time, which will allow you to know if it is truly weak or not.
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December 5th, 2010, 06:27 PM | #12 | |
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Quote:
If I end up buying that then I will let you know the outcome. Thanks |
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December 5th, 2010, 06:48 PM | #13 |
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Most motorcycle batteries are the AGM maintenance-free sealed types, made like that so they don't spill out acid all over the place when you dump the bike over. You have a dead battery, from disuse and the cold weather. Starting the bike by jumping it and running the bike for 15 min will NOT charge up a dead battery. These bikes have very puny charging systems, just a little more than needed to replace what you use to start the bike. You need to put it on a 1.5-2 amp (no higher) battery charger for maybe 6 hours to charge it up fully again. Charge up your battery fully first and see how it works, you may not need a new one. The only way to test whether a battery is good or bad is to put it on a load tester after it's fully charged up and any battery shop or Autozone or NAPA store or garage should test it for you for free. If you do need a new battery and buy an AGM type, be warned - IT MUST BE FULLY CHARGED UP BEFORE FIRST USE OR IT WILL FAIL PREMATURELY - it will never able to be charged up to full capacity again if you try to start the bike one or two times without charging it up first. If the guy in the battery store fills it with acid and says it's all good to go, it's not. If you don't charge it up fully first, you will be back there in a week or so buying another new battery.
Invest in a small 2 amp battery charger, or a trickle charger to keep on when you are not using the bike for a few weeks and the weather is cold. Stop ripping apart your bike looking to solve an obvious simple problem or you are going to cause some real damage that will be difficult to diagnose. And if you ever jump a bike from an automobile, make sure the car is off - the alternator output of a running car will fry the electronics on just about any bike. Lastly, all these bikes are coldblooded and need some choke to start, that's normal operating procedure, especially if it's cold outside. There seems to be some macho thing of trying to start the bike without the choke and that's wrong, that's not how it's designed, the choke is an enricher circuit and is supposed to be used when starting a cold engine. |
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December 5th, 2010, 06:54 PM | #14 |
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Another: http://www.testsycl.com/
It's got a thread going on ADVR: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629665 |
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December 5th, 2010, 08:40 PM | #15 |
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It's all about the battery. I use the Gorilla alarm system regularly. Went out last week and found that my 250 wouldn't catch. Hooked up the Battery Tender and in a few hours it was good to go. Battery is 2 years old and I'm most probably going to replace it in a couple of weeks so I'm not left stranded somewhere.
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December 5th, 2010, 09:43 PM | #16 | |
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Quote:
$25 http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender...1609912&sr=1-1 |
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December 5th, 2010, 09:54 PM | #17 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
Thanks for the reply, it seems like you know what you are talking about just like many people here. When you say it must be charged for 6 hours you mean using like a "battery tender". How do I know which one is the right one? Should I buy the one I found on Amazon, looking at that table pick one that says 1.25A? |
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December 5th, 2010, 09:56 PM | #18 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
Let me think about this, but for some reason I feel it wont have the endurance or lifetime as a standard ninja 250 battery. |
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December 5th, 2010, 10:18 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org member
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If I am buying a new battery or a charger, should I pick one from the official Kawasaki website:
http://www.kawasaki.com/KawasakiNew/...CategoryId=122 Oh and how come nobody said anything about the clicking noise when I push the start button...is that because of the battery or solenoid..etc? |
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December 5th, 2010, 10:50 PM | #20 |
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When a battery gets low, that clicking sound is exactly what you hear when the starter has enough juice to start to engage but not enough to actually turn anything.
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December 6th, 2010, 02:44 AM | #21 | |
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Quote:
Deltran offers two main models of battery tender, junior and plus. The junior model charges at 0.75a if I'm not mistaken while the plus charges at 1.25a. Both are safe for your motorcycle, and when it comes down to time, the 1.25a will charge faster than the 0.75a. Both will charge your battery to it's fullest capacity (full now might not be the same as full when it was new). Battery tenders are slightly different than battery chargers in that you can leave them connected indefinitely as they are "smart" enough to know when the battery is at it's maximum capacity, and then switch from the charging cycle to a float cycle so that it doesn't cook the battery. A few things to note in no particular order:
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December 6th, 2010, 04:53 AM | #22 | |
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Quote:
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December 6th, 2010, 06:56 AM | #23 | |
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Quote:
This is same as the one from amazon? http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender...1609912&sr=1-1 Buy from either sites or the one you suggest? -AL |
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December 6th, 2010, 07:51 AM | #24 |
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Just to state or restate if some all ready mentioned it . There is a big difference between a battery charger and a battery tender. A battery charger will charge a battery at what ever AMP's it is rated at.
A ninja battery they will test good at 250 amp and could be charges safely at 2.5 amp.You don't want to HIT a little battery with to much at once . 10 amp will charge them right up .But heat is the enemy of the battery. A charger will supply a continues current . IF you have a multi meter you can hook it up and watch the voltage go up as the battery takes a charge. After a while the voltage can go as high as 16 volts then the heat starts to build and the water starts to boil away. Leaving acid behind. You should not let the battery go that high and should unhook it after it gets to 13 volt or so.That is why you need a multimeter. Now a battery tender is different. It will only supply enough current to the battery to slowly raise the voltage. It will not really charge a battery like a Charger will. What it will do.It will take a charged battery and slowly add current till the voltage rises to a peak say 13.4 volts .Then the electronics will turn the tender off. Every day the voltage will drop say a tenth of a volt.(depends what you have hooked up) But when the voltage in the battery drops to 12.9 volts .The tender turns back on and will again send current back to the battery until the peak voltage is reached. If you are going to let the bike sit for a month or two get a tender.Or even a good idea for a cold morning If you want to charge up a dead battery get a charger. |
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December 6th, 2010, 07:55 AM | #25 |
ninjette.org sage
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That one says it puts out 0.75 amps. It's OK, it will just take twice as long to charge up a dead battery but is OK to leave it connected for prolonged periods of time.
You can also just go to an Autozone store, Walmart, Harbor Freight (can go online), etc., and get a 1.25-2amp charger for a little less money. If you get one of those small chargers, or a "battery tender" (not exactly the same thing), put the pigtail connector with the plug onto the battery so anytime you want to connect the charger you can just plug it in. You can also use that for an accessory plug, like for a GPS or cell phone charger or something with a light current draw. |
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December 6th, 2010, 09:13 AM | #26 |
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This is the one I have:
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com...T.ac=SLIsearch When I'm not riding it, the bike is ALWAYS connected to it. The battery is over 2 years old! Find the cheapest one and get it. |
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December 6th, 2010, 09:20 AM | #27 |
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.75 amp will be fine over night or even a week. But I wiuld not recomend that much for winter storage. You could do a week on and a week off.
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December 6th, 2010, 09:35 AM | #28 |
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Marc, Very good advice. I just wanted to reiterate your point about charging the battery COMPLETELY before using it. Batteries come in three types, Lead Acid(sealed and unsealed--you see caps), They can be charged at 25% of their rated Ampere Hours, There are Gell Cells (these are sealed and can be installed sideways. They can be charged at 50% capacity. AGM (Absorbed Gel Mat) are the latest thing in cars and boats. These can be charged at 100% capacity. Because they can be charged at such a high rate, they are great for boats--however, the regulator must be adjusted to handle that battery. We have seen some boat owners install AGM and in a short time had to replace the alternator because the regulator called for more power from the alternator. All batteries acquire memories. That is why you need to charge a new battery completely before using it. If you initially start using a battery at 80% charge, it will continue to only accept 20%. The battery that comes with the Ninja is a sealed (Maintenance Free) Lead Acid Battery.
Motorcycle specific Charger/Maintainers are relatively inexpensive. The most commonly used one is Battery Tender. You cannot harm your battery with one. When you get your new battery, wire in the plug for a Battery Tender--comes with the unit. Then all you have to do is plug in when you want to charge without having to remove the seat and all that stuff. I leave mine plugged in all winter. I
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December 6th, 2010, 09:59 AM | #29 |
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Thanks all for help.
@Racer X Thanks for the details, its really informative. Good thing you told me that they are two different things. @mrlmd The 1.25 A is like $189, I'd rather wait longer than pay as much...dont have a big pocket...They sell the same "Battery Tender Junior 12V Battery Charger 12V 0.750A " for $23.38 at Amazon and $39.99 at AutoZone. I will get this from Amazon...its Decided. Now on this site they saying that this battery tender is what they use to charge battery http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_ki...r_can_I_use%3F Confusing!!! So should I get both a tender and a charger? Or is the tender enough for now? |
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December 6th, 2010, 10:19 AM | #30 | |
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Quote:
$44.71 http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender...=pd_sim_auto_1 |
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December 6th, 2010, 10:25 AM | #31 | |
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Quote:
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December 6th, 2010, 11:57 AM | #32 | |
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Quote:
You won't be sorry. Down the road, if you want to use heated gear, the hard wired battery connector can be adapted for that. After you connect the tender, the lights on it will let you know when it is charging, etc. |
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December 6th, 2010, 02:13 PM | #33 | |
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Quote:
http://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender...=pd_sim_auto_1 I called up kawaski, was looking for cutomer support but I got consumer support.... the guy still helped me out he said he has SEVEN bikes. I explained and he said to get battery charger at first, but then he said tender would be better since it will sit for the winter. And incase you need to get a new battery I can buy one from a dealer, he can only recommand OEM battery. Delivary I should get it tomorrow. I will take out the battery today and charge it tomrrow. Now does it consume a lot of electricity, should I carry to work and charge....<---sound cheap right...hahaha....just kddin. Let see how things go, I will keep an update here. Thank you again all for the help so far. |
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December 6th, 2010, 07:03 PM | #34 |
ninjette.org sage
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My Schumacher 1.5 Amp battery charger cost $23-25 in Walmart and works perfectly. I charge up the battery when needed and then unplug it when it's fully charged as indicated by the lights on the unit. I never leave a charger or "tender" (another word for a trickle charger) hooked up to a battery continuously.
The name Battery Tender is a brand name, as is misleading, because like I said and Racer X said, chargers and "tenders' are 2 different things. What you bought will work OK for the intended purpose - to keep your battery charged. If you are not using it, you can just charge it once a month to keep it topped off, you don't have to leave it connected continuously. In any event, after you get the battery fully charged, let us know what happened and if the bike starts and runs OK. And to answer your question - if the battery is dead, like 10v or less, it will take 6+ hours at 1.25-1.5 amp charge rate to fully charge it, not "tender" it as you say. "Tend"ing is what is meant by leaving it on a trickle charger, at maybe 0.25-0.5 amps and leaving it attached continuously. At that charge rate, it may take 24 hrs. or longer to bring the battery back, if it ever does. |
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December 6th, 2010, 07:33 PM | #35 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
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December 7th, 2010, 08:38 AM | #36 | |
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Quote:
Mine has been connected continuously since November, 2008, except when I'm riding the bike! Battery is still in excellent condition. |
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December 7th, 2010, 09:39 AM | #37 |
ninjette.org member
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Thanks, thats awasome Sam. So if you tested your battery with a multimeter it should be 12V?
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December 7th, 2010, 10:12 AM | #38 | |
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Quote:
State of Charge Specific Gravity Voltage 12V 6V 100% 1.265 12.7 6.3 *75% 1.225 12.4 6.2 50% 1.190 12.2 6.1 25% 1.155 12.0 6.0 Discharged 1.120 11.9 6.0 |
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December 7th, 2010, 12:45 PM | #39 | |
ninjette.org member
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Quote:
http://www.woodmizer.ca/pdfs/Article.../batterydo.pdf and here: http://scootdawg.proboards.com/index...ay&thread=4122 Last futzed with by goodbadugly; December 7th, 2010 at 08:07 PM. |
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December 7th, 2010, 08:07 PM | #40 |
ninjette.org member
Name: AL
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I forgot to ask, Does the battery needs to be connected to the motorcycle when I am charging? I took it out off the bike. I can charge it while its out, right?
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