drag shifting?

alex.s · September 26th, 2011, 12:38 PM

probably a bad title but ... when you're on the start and you're going... how do you shift? i've been watching onboards and it looks like racers on smaller displacement bikes seem to prefer to speed-shift on the starting line vs. clutchless everywhere else? what do you do? do you always stick to clutchless or do you pin it and tap the clutch to shift when you're taking off from the line? the book performance riding techniques says the speedshift is horrible for your clutch (clearly...)

Skippii · September 26th, 2011, 03:28 PM

Why would anyone worry about clutchlife for drag racing?
Even if speed shifting is 100 times worse for your clutch that slowly shifting....that would still make a drag race better for your clutch than commuting 5 blocks in NYC traffic.

alex.s · September 26th, 2011, 03:32 PM

yeah i knew the title was going to be misleading... question was more for the start of races and such, not so much drag racing alone...

... not that i'm racing anyone ...

Skippii · September 26th, 2011, 05:26 PM

Why the heck are you shifting to take off at the start of a race? You should be in 1st gear before the gun goes off, and just release the clutch while you gas it.

alex.s · September 26th, 2011, 05:37 PM

no no... as in you're taking off... and shifting into 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc...

as in, set your launch rpm, gun fires, you drop the bucket and get going, then you need to shift from first into second to keep accellerating... on take-off from the onboard cams i've been watching some people speed shift (as in- leave the throttle WOT, pressure on the shifter, then tap the clutch to feed it in), but then don't use the clutch when shifting up for example when coming out of a corner... other people i've seen will simply do their normal clutchless up-shift when starting as well as when accelling out of a corner

Skippii · September 26th, 2011, 07:33 PM

Clutchless shifting from 1 to 2 can occasionally stick you in neutral, which would suck in a race, so they probably speed shift to avoid that, but for the other gears it's not really a concern.

Trailerboy531 · September 26th, 2011, 07:49 PM

So does one simply push up on the shifter without pulling in the clutch lever to clutchless shift upwards?

I know it sounds dumb and kind of like the obvious answer is written in the question, but I ask because my shifter will NOT budge upwards without me using the clutch. I can down shift all day without it though.

alex.s · September 26th, 2011, 07:59 PM

push the lever and close the throttle then open it again

Skippii · September 26th, 2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex.s

push the lever and close the throttle then open it again

Or preload the shifter and bounce of the rev limiter.

Used to do that on my Ducati. Slickest transmission ever, and the peak HP was right around the limiter, so that was actually the idea shift point.

Live2ride · September 26th, 2011, 09:23 PM

To clutchless upshift you let off the throttle slightly while pulling up on the shift lever then giving throttle again once the shift occurs. This all happens within a split second.

alex.s · September 27th, 2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippii

Or preload the shifter and bounce of the rev limiter.

Used to do that on my Ducati. Slickest transmission ever, and the peak HP was right around the limiter, so that was actually the idea shift point.

haha built-in quick-shifter, huh?

i've only done it a few times on my ninja. last time i tried it it didn't work so well so i stopped lol

coondog · September 27th, 2011, 04:06 PM

My clutch friction zone is adjusted right there at first touch. I'll always tap it with the shift, and i don't lose time on it as the main thing is to stay on the throttle. I'd kill to have a honda 250-6 for a track day.

alex.s · September 27th, 2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coondog

My clutch friction zone is adjusted right there at first touch. I'll always tap it with the shift, and i don't lose time on it as the main thing is to stay on the throttle. I'd kill to have a honda 250-6 for a track day.

this is "speed shifting" and according to the books i've been reading kills your clutch about 10 times faster than clutchless shifting with only an average of 0.03 difference per lap on a motoGP bike

Skippii · September 27th, 2011, 05:03 PM

10 times more clutch wear than not using the clutch? Doesn't seem likely, since not using your clutch at all puts very close to zero wear on the clutch.

Racer x · September 27th, 2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippii

Clutchless shifting from 1 to 2 can occasionally stick you in neutral, which would suck in a race, so they probably speed shift to avoid that, but for the other gears it's not really a concern.

I have done a bit of Drag racing. With my 2008 it would blow out of second gear if you did not shift perfectly. I could not shift cleanly from firat to second every time with out the clutch. With the 2009 trans it has never done it . I bought my 2008 bike new and it always did it . My 2009 trans was from Ebay for 100 bucks . Seems odd to me.

coondog · October 1st, 2011, 08:27 AM

I MUST tap my clutch to shift clean, period. Probably me not the bike though right, all you track sieve slow-poke wannabes.

Felipe the Ant · October 1st, 2011, 09:34 AM

Idk about you guys but I'd much rather wear out my clutch than my transmission, especially if I screw up.

Plus if you have the skill to do perfect clutchless shifts you'd hardly wear the clutch if you used it. I just use the clutch every time unless I'm being lazy and decide not to use it. But that usually ends in me smashing my nuts on the tank and reminding myself to use the clutch

September 26th, 2011, 12:38 PM	#1
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	drag shifting? probably a bad title but ... when you're on the start and you're going... how do you shift? i've been watching onboards and it looks like racers on smaller displacement bikes seem to prefer to speed-shift on the starting line vs. clutchless everywhere else? what do you do? do you always stick to clutchless or do you pin it and tap the clutch to shift when you're taking off from the line? the book performance riding techniques says the speedshift is horrible for your clutch (clearly...) __________________________________________________

September 26th, 2011, 03:28 PM	#2
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	Why would anyone worry about clutchlife for drag racing? Even if speed shifting is 100 times worse for your clutch that slowly shifting....that would still make a drag race better for your clutch than commuting 5 blocks in NYC traffic. __________________________________________________ "What a sweetheart."- ninja_sleeper to me

September 26th, 2011, 03:32 PM	#3
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	yeah i knew the title was going to be misleading... question was more for the start of races and such, not so much drag racing alone... ... not that i'm racing anyone ... __________________________________________________

September 26th, 2011, 05:26 PM	#4
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	Why the heck are you shifting to take off at the start of a race? You should be in 1st gear before the gun goes off, and just release the clutch while you gas it. __________________________________________________ "What a sweetheart."- ninja_sleeper to me

September 26th, 2011, 05:37 PM	#5
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	no no... as in you're taking off... and shifting into 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc... as in, set your launch rpm, gun fires, you drop the bucket and get going, then you need to shift from first into second to keep accellerating... on take-off from the onboard cams i've been watching some people speed shift (as in- leave the throttle WOT, pressure on the shifter, then tap the clutch to feed it in), but then don't use the clutch when shifting up for example when coming out of a corner... other people i've seen will simply do their normal clutchless up-shift when starting as well as when accelling out of a corner __________________________________________________

September 26th, 2011, 07:33 PM	#6
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	Clutchless shifting from 1 to 2 can occasionally stick you in neutral, which would suck in a race, so they probably speed shift to avoid that, but for the other gears it's not really a concern. __________________________________________________ "What a sweetheart."- ninja_sleeper to me

September 26th, 2011, 07:49 PM	#7
Trailerboy531 Gear crash test dummy Name: Max Location: South Bay (So. Cal) Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 Ninja 250 race bike, 2014 ZX-636r Posts: A lot.	So does one simply push up on the shifter without pulling in the clutch lever to clutchless shift upwards? I know it sounds dumb and kind of like the obvious answer is written in the question, but I ask because my shifter will NOT budge upwards without me using the clutch. I can down shift all day without it though.

September 26th, 2011, 07:59 PM	#8
alex.s wat Name: wat Location: tustin/long beach Join Date: Sep 2009 Motorcycle(s): wat Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 5 MOTM - Oct '12, Feb '14	push the lever and close the throttle then open it again __________________________________________________

September 26th, 2011, 09:23 PM	#10
Live2ride ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Cody Location: NoVa Join Date: Jan 2011 Motorcycle(s): 06 yzf r6r previously: 09 ninja 250r, black 07 zx6r Posts: A lot.	To clutchless upshift you let off the throttle slightly while pulling up on the shift lever then giving throttle again once the shift occurs. This all happens within a split second. __________________________________________________

September 27th, 2011, 04:06 PM	#12
coondog ninjette.org sage Name: john Location: Palm Beach County, Fl Sligo County, Eire Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ninja 250 street fighter, 2008 street fighter ninja 500, 2001 nsr 125 Posts: 812	My clutch friction zone is adjusted right there at first touch. I'll always tap it with the shift, and i don't lose time on it as the main thing is to stay on the throttle. I'd kill to have a honda 250-6 for a track day.

September 27th, 2011, 05:03 PM	#14
Skippii Milkshake Drinker Name: Skippii Location: Richmond, Va Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Orange DRZ400-S, 2005 Ninja 250 & Custom Thundercunt Dirt Chopper Posts: A lot.	10 times more clutch wear than not using the clutch? Doesn't seem likely, since not using your clutch at all puts very close to zero wear on the clutch. __________________________________________________ "What a sweetheart."- ninja_sleeper to me

October 1st, 2011, 08:27 AM	#16
coondog ninjette.org sage Name: john Location: Palm Beach County, Fl Sligo County, Eire Join Date: Dec 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2005 ninja 250 street fighter, 2008 street fighter ninja 500, 2001 nsr 125 Posts: 812	I MUST tap my clutch to shift clean, period. Probably me not the bike though right, all you track sieve slow-poke wannabes.

October 1st, 2011, 09:34 AM	#17
Felipe the Ant ninjette.org sage Name: . Location: . Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE GREEN! Posts: 562	Idk about you guys but I'd much rather wear out my clutch than my transmission, especially if I screw up. Plus if you have the skill to do perfect clutchless shifts you'd hardly wear the clutch if you used it. I just use the clutch every time unless I'm being lazy and decide not to use it. But that usually ends in me smashing my nuts on the tank and reminding myself to use the clutch

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