November 11th, 2011, 09:41 PM | #81 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kevin
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Sounds like you're getting some good advice but perhaps it's a bit confusing with all the different viewpoints coming at you. Simply taking the MSF class would clear up 99% of your problems at this point. You're learning bad habits and will continue to have scary moments unless you get yourself on the right path. You might even get hurt.
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November 12th, 2011, 12:30 AM | #82 | ||
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The fact that someone was next to you and you couldnt switch lanes means you arent paying attention to your surroundings. Always leave a way out. It is imperative in both a cager and on a motorcycle that you do this. You never know what's going to happen... Oh and before I forget... calm down and control that road rage... it leads to bad decisions and more risk taking. If you must go through them, STOP PULLING IN ON THE CLUTCH!!!!! You dont need to accelerate but maintain speed or even slow down and then maintain speed. As for standing up on the pegs, sure you can do that just dont stand straight up... lift your body off the seat slightly and use your knees to absorb the shock. You keep asking the same questions over and over. If you want me to stop responding and wait for a "more experienced" rider to respond... do let me know but I will say this again... MSF COURSE!!! and/or READ THOSE BOOKS! Just trying to help. |
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November 13th, 2011, 04:20 PM | #83 | |
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Quote:
This forum sucks. people are just here to tell you what a bad rider you are. I clearly stated it was unavoidable. "always leave a way out"??? go die. When there's stupid drivers... you don't get this option. ok, I got it. dont pull the clutch. I was merely asking if the rule apply to potholes... since were not talking about riding over anything. potholes comes in all sizes, and if the pot hole is deep enough... pulling the clutch might be the best option. |
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November 13th, 2011, 05:54 PM | #84 |
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Pulling the clutch would never be the best option for potholes that I can see. Pulling the clutch is going to transfer weight forward as nothing is driving the rear wheel, more weight on the front is going to cause the front to sink deeper into the hole and make it harder for the front to come up out of the hole. I will stay out of the entire unavoidable arguement.
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November 13th, 2011, 06:22 PM | #85 | |
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Buy and read, "Proficient Motorcycling." Every topic and situation you've mentioned is answered in that book. I bought Twist of the Wrist II also, and for a new rider, "Proficient Motorcycling," was much more informative. I actually didn't find much in Keith Code's book that wasn't covered better by it. It goes over everything from counter steering to riding in dirt/snow/ice. |
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November 13th, 2011, 06:42 PM | #86 | |
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Unavoidable... ok then do what I said after that... go through it and give it a little throttle but slow down and if you can swerve, do it... if you cant, then go over it. Geebus not everybody is a bad rider but you're obviously making bad riding choices. If you prefer we dont warn you about your errors then dont ask. If you ask then expect the truth as bluntly as possible. We arent your parents. There is no reason to sugar coat anything BUT count on us to tell you straight up when you're doing something wrong. This forum is full of information but your attitude is like going to a WindowsPC forum and insisting that sometimes deleting critical system files is the right decision. Everybody there will bluntly tell you NO ITS NOT! I've been trying to be as helpful as possible by being detailed and straight forward. I'm sorry if you're offended or angry at the responses. How else would you have us word it? "Clutch pull bad?" FYI, We recommend ALL riders take the MSF and read as much material as possible. |
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November 13th, 2011, 07:22 PM | #87 | |
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November 14th, 2011, 03:36 AM | #88 | |
Nooblet
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November 14th, 2011, 03:52 AM | #89 |
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Yup, Hough. Best book out there for street riding, imho. He also has a follow up called "More Proficient Motorcycling" that is equally good. Available on Kindle, too. Apropos to this thread, Hough's main theme is that the rider can nearly always avoid, and must always take responsibility for, an accident.
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November 14th, 2011, 04:05 AM | #90 | |
Nooblet
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I like the philosophy of "the rider can nearly always avoid, and must always take responsibility for, an accident". It makes me feel empowered: like the outcome of any given riding situation rests with me, not with chance, the environment or other people who are beyond my control. I also want to get as much good riding technique crammed into my head as I can, while I'm still a noobie. Easier to learn it right, now, than to correct bad habits later. There are lots of advanced rider courses available in the UK. As soon as I have the money I want to go on some of them. I imagine there are things that experienced riders can spot which I can't spot from reading books. |
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November 14th, 2011, 06:00 AM | #91 |
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This is like talking to me ex.. jeebus.
1. Yes... pulling clutch is bad. confirmed. Got it. Not sure if I can make it clearer that I got it. I already said I got it before, yet ppl are still reading "no... its best to pull th clutch" which leads me to point 2 2. Thank you forum for all your informative response. I didn't show apreciation for this but only insulted the poor response. The reason I find some response poor is because you all assume I'm doing something stupid without reading what I wrote. Yes I asked if pulling the clutch rule applies to potholes too. U continued to respond to that by saying "yes, stop asking the same questions and drive better! Slow down. It was avoidable" all of that was so unecessary. Sugarcoating is not needed for something that wasn't even required in the first place. My feelings weren't hurt. I just find that some people have this idea that I don't know what I'm doing at all because I'm asking questions about things I don't know. Kinda obvious that I should know to always look ahead. How did u think I saw those potholes? Explaining myself in full detail like this makes forums as awesome as this ineffective. So I only like to ask straight to the point questions... but that doesn't always work which leads me back to my first sentence. Thank you guys.... if I find a pdf version, would any mod or admin mind if i post it here? |
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November 14th, 2011, 06:43 AM | #92 | ||
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From our TOS: Quote:
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November 14th, 2011, 09:41 AM | #93 | |
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just wanted to give back |
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November 14th, 2011, 09:58 AM | #94 | |
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Quote:
After multiple rear ends which was out of my control... I've decided to put it back in my control. I now stop with a lot of room in front of me and I'm constantly looking at my rear view mirror and being ready to drive away from another rear end helps (literally saved my butt at least twice in the last 3 years) Also... all my accidents happens when I'm driving at low speed (under 20mph) so now I always carefully speed pass cars until I'm driving by myself on the road. I know some of you will call me reckless and a noob, but part of driving safely is to not drive near dangerous conditions, and driving near other drivers is literally dangerous. A third rule I always abide by is to not drive relaxed (obviously). People always running me off the road. I just don't understand why they can't just open their eyes... look left and see my CAR before switching lanes. I mean... I'm an accident magnet btw. I'm dodging cars left and right at least twice a week and it's never when I'm speeding. following my rules (only 3 listed here)... I've been accident free for the last 4 years. I'm still learning with the bike so.. I guess this first drop was an easy learning experience. So different from a car... need to make up some new rules. |
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November 14th, 2011, 10:34 AM | #95 | |
Love Rival
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I had to read it a couple of times for it to stick...but it's all in there! Stay curious and keep learning!
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November 14th, 2011, 10:43 AM | #96 |
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Awesome attitude, JD.
I ride my bike like every car out there is out to get me. Main difference from driving the car is that I'm always thinking about road conditions/traction and always watching for people to pull out in front of me from a side road. It is amazing how often cars don't see you when you are on a motorcycle. Because of traction and visibility concerns, I find that the best technique is to never overdrive my stopping distance. If there is a potential obstacle, like a car that might pull out or a potential change in road surface, I'll keep my speed down so I can scrub it in a worst case scenario. Usually about 30mph works when you spot a possible problem like an uncertain surface or a car waiting to pull out - easy to quickly get to zero from there, and its amazing how much additional stopping distance you need at going 40, 50 and above. Off topic a bit, but I've found that looking at the front wheel of cars waiting to pull out is a great technique. You can see the movement of that front wheel with the slightest creep out towards an intersection, and you can pick up movement better than if you are looking at the whole car, or the hood or bumper. Saved my bacon a few times -- you see that wheel start to turn and you know the car may pull out, so you get down to 30 mph or below immediately and cover the brake and clutch. More than once, I'd had a car pull out, oblivious that I was there, and I was able to avoid any drama. Totally would have been his fault if he'd pulled out with me coming and nailed me, but good example of how we can still control our own destiny and avoid other people's mistakes.
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November 14th, 2011, 10:51 AM | #97 | |
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But the kindle version doesnt have all the pretty pictures in COLOR!
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As for the other things... I am not you, the actual rider. I will state everything that I think needs to be done. If you are doing it and think you are doing it well then I say "kudos". If for any reason you think I might be right and you can do better then I hope you see that and do better. All I am trying to do is say everything and anything that can do to help you in another similar situation but I wasnt there... nobody here was... only YOU and only you alone. Good job on your rules! Be careful and ride safe. Might I start your riding rulebook with ATGATT, ride happy, and no alcohol for the day if you're riding. |
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November 14th, 2011, 11:00 AM | #98 | |
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Quote:
the first one was the scariest. The dumb b1tch with her kid in the back didn't look as she pulled out, and not only that, she decides to make a u turn from a parking space. If she did it slowly... I wouldn't have too much of a problem but that lady just floored it. I think this was my first skid. (hehe I skidded it like how I do on a bicycle. hmmm what did the other forum members say... I have to apply more front and less back in this scenario?) |
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November 14th, 2011, 11:06 AM | #99 | |
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Quote:
I got a helmet. I wear jeans and boots. What should my next gear be? how can you NOT be happy when you ride? I don't drink |
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November 14th, 2011, 11:07 AM | #100 | ||
Nooblet
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Quote:
The difference between risk and blame can be hard to understand. I differentiate them in my mind like this: if I do not perform a mirror check when I come to a stop at some traffic lights and then someone rear ends me, I stupidly increased the risk of something bad happening to me, but I absolutely am not to blame for the accident. The person who drove into my rear is to blame. As a woman and as a rider it's important to have this concept clear in my head. I choose not to be out by myself in the city when it's dark, to decrease the risk of getting attacked and I also chose to learn some self-defence techniques so that if I am attacked I have a better chance of coming out ok. Some women will walk the streets alone at night and some women will not choose to take self-defence lessons. If they are attacked that does not mean they are to blame; the attacker is 100% to blame, but they did [knowingly or unknowingly] increase the risk. Motorcycle riding is exactly the same. I think it is good practice to always 100% support those people who have been in a motorcycle accident that was caused by another road user despite what measures they did or did not take to reduce the risk. Obviously it's sensible for each of us to reduce our risks and help each other reduce their risks too. The philosophy that Floyd mentioned is great so long as we don't internalise the idea that it's always our fault if we get in an accident. I don't think that's a healthy attitude. Back to the women being attacked simile; imagine how horrible it would be, to be raped and then even after the rape have this idea in your head that because you may not have done enough to reduce the risk, you are to blame. I don't think it's as bad for a motorcyclist getting in an accident, but I don't think it would be nice either to be lying in hospital after some drunk fool crashed into you, believing that you are to blame. It would be even worse [in both of these scenarios] if people around you were offering no support/sympathy because they mistakenly believed that you were to blame. Sorry if I turned the conversation a little bit dark! It just seemed like a relevant simile. Quote:
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November 14th, 2011, 11:11 AM | #101 |
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November 14th, 2011, 11:13 AM | #102 | |
Nooblet
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Quote:
Thanks for the front-wheel tip. That sounds like very good advice to me. I fully appreciate the stopping distance thing too; I've seen the stats on how stopping distance increases exponentially as you add more speed and to some extent I've experimented with it on my bike. The idea of dropping down to 30MPH for events like this makes perfect sense (so long as you throw in some mirror checks to make sure anyone behind you has noticed your change of speed... tail gaters... grrrrrr). |
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November 14th, 2011, 11:24 AM | #104 | ||
Nooblet
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Quote:
Quote:
You also want impact protection built into your gear, with the crucial areas being: ankles, knees, hips, spine, shoulders, head and elbows. Finally: your gear should be pretty (so you want to wear it!) and suitable for the weather that you ride in. Getting too hot or too cold can be very dangerous in and of itself. |
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November 14th, 2011, 11:32 AM | #105 |
User Title Free Since '12
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lol @ women riders. Get what is practical, and wear ugly stuff with pride.
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November 14th, 2011, 11:35 AM | #106 | |
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Look at revzilla.com, sportbiketrackgear.com, motorcycle-superstore.com, motorcyclegear.com... there are a few others but these are the ones I check often for closeouts and reviews. Be patient and you'll find wicked cool gear that makes you WANT to wear it at prices that make you proud to own it. Some people get on a bike all angry and ready to ride risky and agressive. Not a good attitude when you need all you're attention for riding as you have already noticed. |
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November 14th, 2011, 03:05 PM | #107 |
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One more thought about clutching:
The clutch (obviously) disconnects the engine from the drivetrain. Somewhere in here there was a comparison to a bicycle; you can analogize (roughly) to not pedaling while the bike coasts about. The really important difference is that on a bike, if you start moving your feet nothing happens until your pedaling provides forward power, and a bike's mechanism doesn't provide any deceleration when you stop pedaling (no 'engine brake) except for some very old one-speeds. You can, on a bike, break (not brake) the rear wheel free from a coast if you really stomp on the pedal. By 'break free' I mean cause the tire to spin rather than roll. Maybe this is obvious, but that's the same kind of traction you get in a skid; less, aka 'bad.' In a car (or motorcycle) you can get the same effect by dropping the clutch with the revs up significantly higher than your travelling speed. The converse can happen if you declutch and your revs are significantly *lower* than your travelling speed. Any time the engine+transmission suddenly says X mph, and you're doing Y mph, and the difference between X and Y is more than your tire's --->spare<--- grip -- what's not already being used to handle whatever maneuver you're doing -- your tire is now a slidy thing and not a rolly thing. Also bad for grip is suddenly shifting the weight about. Sudden engine braking will cause weight to shift to the front, putting weight on it and increasing its tire patch (the bit in contact with the road). Lots of grip on the front wheel. Then, and unlike manual braking not so much under your direct control, the forks uncompress, the weight goes off, the tire patch shrinks, and all the front wheel grip goes away. If your wheels weren't perfectly straight during all this the effect is that the bike straightens up or even highsides and the rider may go over and off in the same direction (hmm, this sounds like the first post...). This tendency is exacerbated if the initial engine braking takes so much weight off the rear that it slides first. In a car this 'just' causes oversteer because the center of gravity of a car is well inside of its outside wheels (aka it's in the middle of the car). It still isn't a good thing unless you're trying to initiate a drifting contest. With the clutch out, even dropping the throttle won't (usually; I haven't tried closing the throttle in 1st from 12k RPM and I'm not going to) cause this disaster. Maximum maneuvering grip is obtained by keeping throttle neutral, not clutching. |
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November 14th, 2011, 03:51 PM | #108 |
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soooo after reading a gazillion posts, hope you're still going to pay for your friends bike, because at the end of the day...YOU DROPPED THE BIKE. if you're still not clear as to what happened to the bike, but so clearly and so vividly remember every movement that took place, maybe you should hop on your own bike and re-enact the whole incident and see what happens.
bottom line is, you dropped someone elses bike, and it would be only morally correct to pay for the damages...that my .02 cents
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November 15th, 2011, 02:11 AM | #109 | |
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Quote:
It would appear no honour amongst friends if the stories are correct, besides no friend has asked the other friend to cough up for any costs for damages, so really that side of it is none of our business only what has been openly said in this topic by either friend is. The girlfriend should be responsible anyway, she was the one supposed to be riding it, not her brother. |
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November 15th, 2011, 12:45 PM | #110 |
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It's ok. The past is the past. I think the OP and many other members on this forum has learned something. So i think this thread has served its purpose. Let us not dwell on the past and look towards a fruitful and enjoyable riding future.
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November 15th, 2011, 12:48 PM | #111 |
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November 15th, 2011, 12:52 PM | #112 |
Love Rival
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Or the Kindle app on your iPad.
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November 15th, 2011, 04:52 PM | #113 |
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Or a book...
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November 15th, 2011, 10:00 PM | #114 |
Internet Slut
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With clutch in and no throttle you had your front end compressed in the turn, with the front tire turned a small elevation change in the road like if the road comes up or your go down in a divit it may through you over the top. Honestly think you just tucked the front end, perhaps a bit of front brake and since the front was compressed you fell over the bike when it did.
From now on power through the turns, even out your suspension and learn proper riding technique. |
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November 17th, 2011, 02:09 PM | #115 |
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Jeff beat me to it, but when taking a turn you should slow down and make sure your in the proper gear before you actually start the turn. You shouldn't have to pull in the clutch or use the brakes in a turn. If for some reason you do have to pull in the clutch or brake be sure to stand the bike up straight. Once you enter the turn you should at least keep the throttle even but best practice is to start accelerating once you hit the peak of the turn.
I'm sure New Jersey can be just as fun as driving in Boston. Be sure to constantly be looking at your surroundings and I usually go with expecting everyone to pull out in front of you. For red lights and intersections, wait another second at the light after it turns green. There are too many people that go through lights as you have already seen. |
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November 17th, 2011, 04:54 PM | #116 |
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April 20th, 2012, 07:23 PM | #117 |
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Ok my 2 pennies worth what ever the reason for the accident is now irrelevant I have been riding Bikes on and off for nearly 30 years.
Bikes have changed greatly in that time and so has road conditions also the way we are taught to ride has changed. WE ARE HUMAN WE F**K UP we never stop learning I read books watch videos all the time and have found out recently things I was unaware off As said before you are young your perception of danger is probably very different from older riders Just relax enjoy the ride speed is great we all love it but time, place ,etc. read some of the crash threads here learn by what happened to them .
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April 20th, 2012, 08:39 PM | #118 | |||||
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If you're in a bad enough smash then you tend to rupture organs, so no you won't be any use (other than worm food) Quote:
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Marybethtimearts-OilOnWetRoad293.jpg I call BS, as the rain would have made the oil even more visible Quote:
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As for potholes a slight roll on & stand up slightly out of the saddle to ride out the shock |
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