n00b totals 250 on first ride

[dubojr1]

Come on man... If you believe this then show us some true data from experts. That's all I'm asking.

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

i think it should be left to you all think your superior then jiggles.
So unless you all for some god like reason living in bullet time, I think you should check your head and actually think what is going on here.

I for one know i couldnt have stopped and i dodge F#$king paintballs almost every day. I can see those bitches in the air coming at me and i move out of the way.

also the fact she made an illegal uturn, Didnt signal she was doing so, and didnt even look before initiating.

OH and for drac. I may be a new rider and dont have much experience but, for stopping and 3/4 of your power comes from the front brake IT will create a forward motion making the rear tire "float" making it damn near useless.

1. Dodging paintballs gives you zero experience on a motorcycle. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Zilch.
2. "I may be a new rider, but all of you experienced riders don't know what you're talking about."

[Ptdoughnut]

Originally Posted by rmorse

1. Dodging paintballs gives you zero experience on a motorcycle. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Zilch.
2. "I may be a new rider, but all of you experienced riders don't know what you're talking about."

I never said it gives me any experience towards riding. But my reaction times are above and beyond an average person. You try tracking something the size of a nickel flying towards you at 200 mph and moving.

Its simple physics with the braking. the front will lean and the back will lift. any highschool student could tell you that

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

I never said it gives me any experience towards riding. But my reaction times are above and beyond an average person. You try tracking something the size of a nickel flying towards you and moving.

Its simple physics with the braking. the front will lean and the back will lift. any highschool student could tell you that

Again, your reaction times may be amazing in paintball, but that does not transfer over. Just because you may see something and "react" to it, does NOT mean that the reaction is appropriate. Your reaction could be to immediately stiffen and throw your body to the left to dodge the car. Unless you have the experience that comes with riding, that does not help. You might shift/throw your weight incredibly quick, but you don't countersteer/roll on the throttle/whatever because you don't have the motorcycle reflexes yet.

[Ptdoughnut]

7. In an emergency do we concentrate on using staged braking on both front and back brakes?

This is a controversial subject. Some experienced riders reckon that, even in an emergency when research has shown that panic tends to decrease your riding skills, they can apply the back brake perfectly with no loss of braking on the front.



Well, research has shown that the average rider can only properly concentrate on the use of one brake in an emergency so, unless you think you're road motorcycling's equivalent of a top motorcycle racer, we would suggest that you concentrate on getting the best out of one brake.



Of the front and rear brake on a motorcycle, the one to concentrate on in an emergency is the front brake because if you get that one wrong, lock it up and don't correct that problem then you're going to crash.



According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither. The MSF says you can't concentrate FULLY on both brakes at one time. You know your mother's old nag, "You can't concentrate on two things at one time"!



So, to get the best braking, you have to concentrate using either the front or the back brake and, since the front brake gives up to 80% of your braking power and incorrect application is likely to make you fall off, it makes sense to concentrate on the front brake.



The American Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches their instructors that "in an emergency braking situation you should apply the back brake hard and let the back wheel slide if it wants to. This way you can concentrate on what is happening up front; there's enough to think about in the use of the front brake."

[massacremasses]

@drac telling @Jiggles telling him he should expect, everyone to pull out in front of him. Yet drac doesnt do AGATT even though he believes that someone is going to pull out in front of him. .

If you really believed that why wouldnt you "dress" to crash/get hit?

I just find that odd.

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

@drac telling @Jiggles telling him he should expect, everyone to pull out in front of him. Yet drac doesnt do AGATT even though he believes that someone is going to pull out in front of him. .

If you really believed that why wouldnt you "dress" to crash/get hit?

I just find that odd.

Are you suggesting that because he doesn't dress AGATT, his statement is false?

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

I never said it gives me any experience towards riding. But my reaction times are above and beyond an average person. You try tracking something the size of a nickel flying towards you at 200 mph and moving.

Its simple physics with the braking. the front will lean and the back will lift. any highschool student could tell you that

Oh, and I forgot to address your second part....

So, if any high school student knows that you should only use the front brake in an emergency stop, why are the lead engineers incorporating linked brakes in motorcycles, including sport bikes?

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by rmorse

Oh, and I forgot to address your second part....

So, if any high school student knows that you should only use the front brake in an emergency stop, why are the lead engineers incorporating linked brakes in motorcycles, including sport bikes?

Because linked brakes are also controlled by abs and won't lock up

[Ptdoughnut]

Originally Posted by rmorse

Oh, and I forgot to address your second part....

So, if any high school student knows that you should only use the front brake in an emergency stop, why are the lead engineers incorporating linked brakes in motorcycles, including sport bikes?

if arguing over the interwebz is what gets you off at night you should be set for the month.

but yet again you need to read the entire statement, I said physics not motorcycle handling.

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Because linked brakes are also controlled by abs and won't lock up

Yes, I realize this. Again, the argument being posed above is that the rear brake is useless in an emergency stop, and won't help at all. He also is claiming that simple high school physics will tell you this. The fact that a bike equipped with ABS and linked brakes stop far faster than one with just ABS shows you that the rear brake DOES help.

[Motofool]

Amazing!

215 posts dedicated to debate a half second decision of this imperfect human being followed by half a second of potential braking performance............

If only so much passion and energy were dedicated to practicing emergency braking and avoidance,...........weekly.

How many here know what their stopping distance is from 30 mph or how many degrees they can swerve at that speed?

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

if arguing over the interwebz is what gets you off at night you should be set for the month.

but yet again you need to read the entire statement, I said physics not motorcycle handling.

.....

You stated an incorrect statement, and attempted to pass it off as factual. This doesn't "get me off at night". Remember, what you are typing has the potential to seriously injure or kill people, if they implement it while riding.

EDIT: It's quite simple, doughnut. Are you or are you not suggesting that the rear brake should not be used in an emergency stop?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by rmorse

Are you suggesting that because he doesn't dress AGATT, his statement is false?

No, its true. You need to ride like everyone is trying to kill you. And dress like it.

Originally Posted by Motofool

Amazing!

215 posts dedicated to debate a half second decision of this imperfect human being followed by half a second of potential braking performance............

If only so much passion and energy were dedicated to practicing emergency braking and avoidance,...........weekly.

How many here know what their stopping distance is from 30 mph or how many degrees they can swerve at that speed?

my thoughts exactly. Hind sight it always 20/20

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

No, its true. You need to ride like everyone is trying to kill you. And dress like it.

Gotcha. I didn't know if it was a personal jab at him, or if you were trying to disprove his statement.

[Ptdoughnut]

Originally Posted by rmorse

.....

You stated an incorrect statement, and attempted to pass it off as factual. This doesn't "get me off at night". Remember, what you are typing has the potential to seriously injure or kill people, if they implement it while riding.

EDIT: It's quite simple, doughnut. Are you or are you not suggesting that the rear brake should not be used in an emergency stop?

it is a fact that the weight will shift forward. But by all means use the rear brake? It may not do a single thing in the position you end up in but it will keep you happy right?

admit though that if your weight has shifted to the front wheel in an emergency stop what is the rear wheel is just floating behind maybe even starting to lift

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

7. In an emergency do we concentrate on using staged braking on both front and back brakes?

This is a controversial subject. Some experienced riders reckon that, even in an emergency when research has shown that panic tends to decrease your riding skills, they can apply the back brake perfectly with no loss of braking on the front.



Well, research has shown that the average rider can only properly concentrate on the use of one brake in an emergency so, unless you think you're road motorcycling's equivalent of a top motorcycle racer, we would suggest that you concentrate on getting the best out of one brake.



Of the front and rear brake on a motorcycle, the one to concentrate on in an emergency is the front brake because if you get that one wrong, lock it up and don't correct that problem then you're going to crash.



According to the American Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you try to get the best out of both brakes in an emergency, you will get the best out of neither. The MSF says you can't concentrate FULLY on both brakes at one time. You know your mother's old nag, "You can't concentrate on two things at one time"!



So, to get the best braking, you have to concentrate using either the front or the back brake and, since the front brake gives up to 80% of your braking power and incorrect application is likely to make you fall off, it makes sense to concentrate on the front brake.



The American Motorcycle Safety Foundation teaches their instructors that "in an emergency braking situation you should apply the back brake hard and let the back wheel slide if it wants to. This way you can concentrate on what is happening up front; there's enough to think about in the use of the front brake."

I said data from experts... geez!

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

it is a fact that the weight will shift forward. But by all means use the rear brake? It may not do a single thing in the position you end up in but it will keep you happy right?

admit though that if your weight has shifted to the front wheel in an emergency stop what is the rear wheel is just floating behind maybe even starting to lift

Again, what is the basis of your argument? That you shouldn't utilize all of your braking power?

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

it is a fact that the weight will shift forward. But by all means use the rear brake? It may not do a single thing in the position you end up in but it will keep you happy right?

admit though that if your weight has shifted to the front wheel in an emergency stop what is the rear wheel is just floating behind maybe even starting to lift

Come on.... Again what you posted says that 80% comes from the front brake.... where do you think the rest comes from.... gravity?

[dubojr1]

I don't think we are gonna get thru to him rmorse...

[Ptdoughnut]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Amazing!

If only so much passion and energy were dedicated to practicing emergency braking and avoidance,...........weekly.

How many here know what their stopping distance is from 30 mph or how many degrees they can swerve at that speed?

Imma go practice stopping before the storms come.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

Imma go practice stopping before the storms come.

You are kidding right?

[Ptdoughnut]

about? we have storms incoming for the next 7-9 days

If i test it now and see a difference between the two i will be swayed. This is a learning experience for me. Im learning atleast. it got blown out of proportion to what i started with it.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by rmorse

Gotcha. I didn't know if it was a personal jab at him, or if you were trying to disprove his statement.

na, I dont roll like that. So idk if it was either, lol. I just thought it was funny that he was really anti ATGATT, but then made that statement.

Im SOTGATT lol. I regularly lack pants, but hoping that will change pretty soon.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by Ptdoughnut

about? we have storms incoming for the next 7-9 days

If i test it now and see a difference between the two i will be swayed. This is a learning experience for me. Im learning atleast. it got blown out of proportion to what i started with it.

Well that's cool man. Now gear up and get out there. Let us know your results!

[Alex]

This is a strange place to bring up the rear braking argument. It's been discussed ad nauseum in much better organized threads, and the most verbose of those arguing in this thread continue to miss the point and share misleading, if not entirely incorrect, data and advice. To find 'em, just get to this sticky below:

Link to Riding Skills sticky

This thread is evidently to try and troll Jiggles and see how he responds, and for my money he's been quite reasonable throughout.

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

na, I dont roll like that. So idk if it was either, lol. I just thought it was funny that he was really anti ATGATT, but then made that statement.

Im SOTGATT lol. I regularly lack pants, but hoping that will change pretty soon.

Haha, I have sooo much in gear. Good gear too. Sidi Air Vertigos, full leather jacket, A* SP2 full gauntlet gloves, etc. But still don't even have pants yet. And my legs were what got messed up the most in my bad crash, lol.

[akima]

Originally Posted by rmorse

Remember, what you are typing has the potential to seriously injure or kill people, if they implement it while riding.

We're all adults here. I make up my own mind on how to ride. He's free to express his views and if we don't agree with them we're free to ignore them. We're responsible for how we ride, not the people who gave us their personal advice/views.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by rmorse

Yes, I realize this. Again, the argument being posed above is that the rear brake is useless in an emergency stop, and won't help at all. He also is claiming that simple high school physics will tell you this. The fact that a bike equipped with ABS and linked brakes stop far faster than one with just ABS shows you that the rear brake DOES help.

It will not stop far faster. As drac stated you will stop 4% faster, that is if you do not lock up the rear because if you do all that stopping power which is very little (96% front, 4% rear) is gone and you have an unstable rear that you now need to worry about. Is 4% worth it to you? With ABS yes, without, that depends, are you confident that in a panic stop you will not lock the rear? To me it is not (next bike will be Ninja 1000 ABS though)

But this is only true for sport bikes, other bikes like cruisers, touring and all that I would guess are closer to the 70/30 that the MSF tells us

[akima]

Originally Posted by Alex

Link to Riding Skills sticky

T'anks I don't recall seeing that thread before.

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It will not stop far faster. As drac stated you will stop 4% faster, that is if you do not lock up the rear because if you do all that stopping power which is very little (96% front, 4% rear) is gone and you have an unstable rear that you now need to worry about. Is 4% worth it to you? With ABS yes, without, that depends, are you confident that in a panic stop you will not lock the rear? To me it is not (next bike will be Ninja 1000 ABS though)

But this is only true for sport bikes, other bikes like cruisers, touring and all that I would guess are closer to the 70/30 that the MSF tells us

Yea, far faster is a bit much. But, faster none the less.

You bring up an interesting point. "...lock up the rear because if you do all that stopping power which is very little (96% front, 4% rear) is gone..."

If you lock up the rear, do you lose stopping power from the front? What if you're in a straight line and the rear never comes around?

[Alex]

Seriously. Read the other threads. Not to end the discussion here, but to put everyone on a level playing field on where they are coming from, and then to continue the discussion from there. And preferably in there as well.

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by akima

We're all adults here. I make up my own mind on how to ride. He's free to express his views and if we don't agree with them we're free to ignore them. We're responsible for how we ride, not the people who gave us their personal advice/views.

Whoa whoa whoa. That's true, but we also have to understand that what we say can have a potentially negative bearing on how people ride. Just today, I saw a kid posting asking for advice....he said that he was 15 and a half years old. Do you think he 100% comprehends that the slightest error riding can get him killed? I know I didn't when I was 15. Or when I was 18, for that matter.

[akima]

Originally Posted by rmorse

Whoa whoa whoa. That's true, but we also have to understand that what we say can have a potentially negative bearing on how people ride. Just today, I saw a kid posting asking for advice....he said that he was 15 and a half years old. Do you think he 100% comprehends that the slightest error riding can get him killed? I know I didn't when I was 15. Or when I was 18, for that matter.

When he becomes an adult that's on him to gain that comprehension. As a kid, it's down to his parents/carers to save him from himself!

[rmorse]

Originally Posted by akima

When he becomes an adult that's on him to gain that comprehension. As a kid, it's down to his parents/carers to save him from himself!

I completely agree! I also believe that what we say on the forums has an affect on how people ride.

[akima]

Originally Posted by rmorse

I completely agree! I also believe that what we say on the forums has an affect on how people ride.

True, but unless someone is maliciously... AWWW, PENNY SPIDER!!... um... unless they're maliciously trying to cause you to hurt yourself, I think it's completely the responsibility of you, the adult, to ride how you see fit.

I personally like to hear a full range of opinions so I can use my own reasoning and riding experience so far to figure out how I should ride.

[Jiggles]

^ You can use more front brake then

and go argue in the brake thread!

[Jiggles]

I'm having fun on the BARF forums haha

http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/fo....php?p=7354569

[Ptdoughnut]

that rhythmrider made a good point about trying to actually stop in that distance. I like that one guy who thought you had 35-40 feet of braking time. more like 5-10

[Jiggles]

40 feet is probably pretty accurate lol