July 27th, 2012, 06:33 PM | #121 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
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Quote:
Another thing regarding comfort, there is a reason supersport ergonomics are designed the way they are. They are designed for the rider to have maximum control of the bike. The high handle bars and upright seating position of the Ninja 650 don't allow as much control and feel as the low clip ons and high foot pegs on the ZX6R. Not saying you need to hang off the bike through every corner, but a supersport will emphasize better riding technique for those that want to learn it. And I don't agree you need to go to a track to learn proper riding technique on a supersport. Yes, it helps. It helps to take your 250 or 650 to the track too. Plenty of people use 600-class supersports as daily drivers and no matter what bike you are on there is an opportunity to practice solid smooth control, managing traction, and knowing your limits. It just so happens the limits on the 600 supersport are generally much higher. Again, all I'm saying is that there are pros and cons to each bike. A supersport isn't great for cross country touring, but people still do it and thoroughly enjoy it. Then again they do make touring bikes for a reason. My only advice to those reading is to not write off supersports just because of what you heard on forums. Go to a demo day and try them out. You might really enjoy yourself. |
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July 27th, 2012, 06:35 PM | #122 | |
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A FJR 1300, GS-1200, Tiger 1050, VFR 800, even a bloody honda dullville700 are all over your limit and as such are absurd... every one of them is more suited to touring than any 299cc bike. So yes you sound like a complete fcukin idiot. Go ride a few more bikes, take one across the country & see how a sub 300cc bike compares to a 750+ cc sports tourer or adventure bike for that. I've taken my ninja across 3 countries in 2 days, done a few weekends where I clocked over a thousand miles of backroad & a few days where I did 13 hours on the bike. >300cc is not a luxury for that sort of riding. BTW I know a few people who have toured europe on bikes including RC51s (V-twin superbike) CBR600s & a 636. I wouldn't say no to using a CBR600f4i (or maybe an 05 model R6) to go across england, take the tunnel to france (bike goes on a train for that bit) & down towards the black forest in Germany & possibly Switzerland. Both are older supersports & both are comfortable enough to go for a good spin |
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July 27th, 2012, 06:49 PM | #123 |
Que Buenos Son!!!
Name: Ryan
Location: Grovetucky, OH
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I gotta say I think ninjaone knows what he's talking about. Getting back from an extended ride on my buddies ZX-6RR today made me rethink what my next bike will be.
The suspension is really nice on that bike. The weight difference isn't as big as I thought it was, and it was still fun to ride at legal speeds. The riding position forces you to be in the proper position for max control at speed. It's still a pain to maneuver in the slow stuff. You can't throw it into turns like the 250, but in the long sweepers it's super stable.
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July 27th, 2012, 07:04 PM | #124 | |
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http://www.yamaha-motor.ca/products/...oup=M|&LANG=en Style sucks though! |
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July 27th, 2012, 10:00 PM | #126 |
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If they manage to keep the weight/power ratio of the 250 this could be a very very nice new-gen...I hope they don't **** it up on the aesthetic side too lol
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July 27th, 2012, 10:10 PM | #127 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 28th, 2012, 07:27 PM | #128 |
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July 29th, 2012, 11:10 AM | #129 |
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While I agree that this thread is awfully trollish, I do have to wonder what Kawi may do to differentiate themselves, especially seeing as how the CBR250 already has ABS and FI. If Yamaha actually is interested in a 250 entry, then this may be even more incentive for Kawi to differentiate.
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July 29th, 2012, 12:09 PM | #130 |
Newb..... on a steeek! :D
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I do remember taking a Kawasaki survey online (an old thread had linked us to it on here) that had several questions about the idea of a 300cc. So it's not completely out of the question for them do as such. They apparently had/have an idea for one and used the survey to get an idea on the possibility of it being a good sell or a bad flop. I guess we will just have to wait for the official announcement on all 2013 models from them to see what happens.
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July 29th, 2012, 12:19 PM | #131 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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Wouldn't a 300cc engine make it so they could not be beginner bikes in many countries?
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 29th, 2012, 12:34 PM | #132 |
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Name: Dennis
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Both are crappy beginner bikes, that being said, an you use one as a beginner bike? Sure thing, hd plenty of my friends start on a supersport who are still alive today. Now just for your information.... torque is turning force... pretty much helps with acceleration, and torque can get you in trouble depending on where it peaks in the rpm range. Horse power is torque times rpm, this is why a ss makes more hp then a 650, they have an insanely high redline, hp caan also get you in trouble if you wanna fly into a wall at 150mph. My conclusion, neither is beginner friendly unless your a fatass which negates the difference between the 250
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July 29th, 2012, 12:47 PM | #133 |
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July 29th, 2012, 01:00 PM | #134 |
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July 29th, 2012, 01:05 PM | #135 |
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So this guy has inside sources saying it will be a 300cc bike and n4mwd has sources telling him next year the bike will be fuel injected. So basically next years 250 is going to have an MSRP of $5,999
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 29th, 2012, 02:55 PM | #136 |
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May as well, if Yamaha and Honda are going to duke it out in $4,500-$5,000 territory: yeah. Why settle for a portion of that market when they can offer a larger bike with a larger price that largely appeals to the same buyers and may attract more? I'd estimate $5,399 base with a $500 ABS option and an additional mark up for special edition or sporty accessories (optional solo seat cowl, steering damper, adjustable suspension, etc). They'd probably hold out on the SE treatment until the second year of the new model.
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July 29th, 2012, 03:18 PM | #137 | |
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July 29th, 2012, 03:48 PM | #138 | |
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Quote:
I'm just saying that it could be a smart move if the Yamaha 250 rumor is true. Also, I know the steering damper sounds silly, but so is a slipper clutch on a street bike. It's just one more way they could profit off of the perceived performance advantage it would have over the competition. And the pointlessness of it for a bike targetted at learners is exactly why I suggested that it would make sense only as an option (profit off of the few that want more). |
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July 29th, 2012, 03:54 PM | #139 | |
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I would think an updated 250, technologically speaking for North America would be more likely than a 300. Especially when considering the 400 that already exists. |
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July 29th, 2012, 03:58 PM | #140 | |
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July 29th, 2012, 05:52 PM | #141 |
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Name: Nick
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2013 ninja 250
you gotta prove it. i dont believe you
over the last 5 yrs the 250 has been kawi top seller why would they leave a market that they have dominated for so long. |
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July 29th, 2012, 06:29 PM | #142 | |
Its not a 250,its a Ninja
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Quote:
Last futzed with by jcgss77; July 29th, 2012 at 06:30 PM. Reason: Age makes me forget stuff |
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July 29th, 2012, 06:32 PM | #143 | |
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Quote:
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July 29th, 2012, 06:54 PM | #144 |
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This market needs a $7,000 250, but its an i4 not a twin
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 29th, 2012, 07:11 PM | #145 |
Its not a 250,its a Ninja
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July 29th, 2012, 07:17 PM | #146 |
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You can buy pistons from JE that will go 282cc. But you need sleeves. I run the 265 cc pistons with just a bored out stock cylinder. JE says you will not need to re balance the rotating mass with this up grade.
From what I got. If you bore to 299cc you need sleeves custom pistons and re balance and there is only 2mm between the sleeves. Anything larger will requier stroking the crank. That is big money. I have seen the 250cc In4 bikes. I was not that impressed. No torque and you have to wring the ne to 15000 rpm to get any power .I would rather have a hoped up twin with a nice aluminum frame. Olines suspension and brembo brakes. |
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July 29th, 2012, 07:27 PM | #147 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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I'd rather have a 250 that revs to 20k
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 30th, 2012, 03:14 AM | #149 | |
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for l's, p1, p2 the bike can have a max 660cc limit but with a max power to weight ratio of 150kw per ton our top selling bikes are the 250 class including ninja 250r, cbr250, hyosung insurance is around 1/4 of a 600cc bike |
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July 30th, 2012, 03:24 AM | #150 |
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There is a very fine line . If the factory was to build a beginner bike that is inexpensive. You get a Ninja 250. If you start to jack up the performance. Then you get to the same price as a 600. No one will pay 6500 to 8500 dollars for a 40 hp bike no mater what size it is.
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July 30th, 2012, 03:59 AM | #151 |
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That's just it: it isn't far enough away to be consider "leaving." It's more like stepping out in front. For the last five years they didn't have two major competitors with 250cc sport bikes. Assuming the Yamaha rumor is true, maintaininging their sales success from the last five years may require this at a value price which would still be more profitable (manufacturing costs stay the same, price raises only enough to distinguish it).
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July 30th, 2012, 10:33 AM | #152 | |
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Quote:
I still call BS till I have proof. |
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July 30th, 2012, 11:42 AM | #153 | |
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http://www.facebook.com/groups/DeMdNjPagrouprides/ I live my life a quarter mile at a time! Who is affraid of the big bad jiggles???? LOL |
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July 30th, 2012, 11:45 AM | #154 |
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July 30th, 2012, 12:18 PM | #155 |
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Multiple markets. But I would be Kool with getting the 400 here. That would me kick azz
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July 30th, 2012, 12:19 PM | #156 | |
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Maybe their going to design a Fuel Injected, 400cc Inline-4 motor and stuff it on the current gen, 250s chassis. Hopefully putting out 55-65 HP? On a 375 lbs, agile, flickable 250 bike??? Sign me up for one... |
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July 30th, 2012, 12:32 PM | #157 |
Jigglin' your Jiglets
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This thread
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If the Ninja 250 doesn't have enough power for you, then you don't know how to ride it. AFM #676 Supersports are for n00bs |
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July 30th, 2012, 01:40 PM | #158 | |
CPT Falcon
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If they only increased the cylinder size and kept the current design there's nothing that would make it measurably more expensive to produce beyond minimal one-time R&D and re-certification costs (EPA, DOT, etc), and yet people would gladly pay a little more to get more (covers that). If they also added FI, then it would have to go up significantly and would push closer to a grand but both could be added for the cost of FI alone (estimated at about $500). Standardizing FI would actually LOWER the cost of producing the FI model worldwide with less differences to accomodate on the assembly line and greater economies of scale. Sleeving back down to 250ccs for certain markets would be negligible. Rather than assuredly losing some customers to Honda and Yamaha if they do nothing, they could do minimal work and be a clear performance leader in the sub-500cc market (sub-600cc these days). That would attract quite a few beginner bikers who were on the fence about a small-displacement bike and even many who would have been perfectly fine with a 250 from them or a competitor: "An extra 50ccs in the same price range as the Honda and Yamaha 250 offerings without going up to a significantly more dangerous class for a beginner? *shrug* Why not? I'm still getting an easy-to-ride, power-limited, fuel-efficient learner's bike with all the advantages of the previous model and its competition." Think about it. Last futzed with by CZroe; July 30th, 2012 at 02:44 PM. |
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July 30th, 2012, 08:39 PM | #159 |
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Could always resurrect GPZ305.
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July 30th, 2012, 09:13 PM | #160 | |
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R.I.P EthioKnight (Alex) |
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