November 28th, 2012, 08:00 PM | #1 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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The 1G Club - By Keith Code
"Once we become comfortable with 45 degrees and attempt to go beyond that, the process begins to reverse. Immediately we have more lateral load than vertical load, and things begin to heat up. Riders apparently have difficulty organizing this. Suddenly, we are thrust into a sideways world where the forces escalate rapidly. While it takes 45 degrees to achieve 1g lateral, it takes only 15 degrees more to experience nearly double that (depending on rider position and tire size)."
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/ne...ning_the_bike/
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí Last futzed with by Motofool; December 7th, 2012 at 12:26 PM. |
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December 3rd, 2012, 09:27 AM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
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I would like to see the same graph with speed and grip factored in.
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December 3rd, 2012, 11:41 AM | #3 |
wat
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i think speed might be irrelevant... because the weight of the rider and the bike is (relatively) fixed, the lean angle is proportional to the centrifugal force (outward force caused by inertia) so if you were going 10mph at 45degrees lean angle, you would experience the same centrifugal force (1G) as you would at 100mph at 45 degrees lean angle (1G), the difference would be how much that 45 degrees actually gets you (you would be running a much wider line)
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December 3rd, 2012, 12:00 PM | #4 |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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I think us riders in the superbike class at Daytona get easily over 1g on the banks and I know my dad used to get light headed when he raced there.
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December 3rd, 2012, 02:52 PM | #5 |
ninjette.org dude
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Yup - I think it's much higher than even that. All of the Daytona tire testing makes reference to the bike putting twice the normal load into the tires on the banking, requiring those extra-stiff sidewalls to keep from destroying themselves. Which would imply 2+ G, depending on how it's measured. Jason - doesn't your upper body / helmet feel twice as heavy and yanked down to the tank while at speed there?
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December 3rd, 2012, 02:56 PM | #6 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
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December 3rd, 2012, 08:17 PM | #7 | |
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December 4th, 2012, 09:19 AM | #8 | |
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December 6th, 2012, 11:55 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Misti
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Just an FYI, Twist of the Wrist is being released shortly as an eBook by Amazon and other eBook retailers....soon
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December 6th, 2012, 11:58 AM | #10 |
ninjette.org dude
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It's been so easily available electronically via some less than legitimate methods, I'm happy that it is now going to be easily accessible in a way that fairly compensates Keith and his team. I hope it is successful.
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December 6th, 2012, 02:33 PM | #11 | |||
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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Quote:
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What the rider feels on his body (against seat, tank, pegs and grips) is higher than that, which would be the total or real G. Regarding maximum attainable grip, that should be proportional to the weight of the bike plus rider before they start moving and proportional also to the tires' contact patches. That weight is the mass of both combined with the vertical G, which oscillates around the natural gravity (g) while the bike rolls over the irregularities of the pavement (hence, the "track pounding your chest" feeling). After a crest G<g (the bike+rider are moving down and weight less = less friction or traction on the contact patch to fight the lateral G). After a valley G>g (the bike+rider are moving up and weight more = more friction or traction on the contact patch). Some tires have a bigger contact patch as they lean. After several laps of a fast race, the rubber on the sides starts deteriorating, which may cancel the gain in area of the contact patch. See these schematics: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...=40#entry26802
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 6th, 2012, 04:07 PM | #12 |
wat
Name: wat
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so the actual felt effect on the rider on the high bank is around 3Gs? you start to pass out around 5Gs right?
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December 6th, 2012, 07:04 PM | #13 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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This article is not specific about the 5g, other than is the typical maximum under-heavy-braking for Formula One car, but it explains that passing out depends of physical condition:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 7th, 2012, 12:23 PM | #14 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 7th, 2012, 01:33 PM | #15 |
wat
Name: wat
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i'm kinda confused by that graph... regarding speed...
also what about acceleration force? 40/60 is .2G you said, right? is that what the bike speed line represents?
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December 8th, 2012, 06:26 AM | #16 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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Yes, it is confusing seeing that distorted line.
Our senses are familiar with a fix radius turn that we take at different speeds, while they are not familiar with minute lean angle readings. Also, in our world, speed always increases and decreases at a steady rate when we are accelerating or braking. If we could measure the lean angle while our bikes are speeding up or slowing down at a steady rate, we could see that the angle does not change at a steady rate. No, the 40/60 weight distribution and the 0.2g acceleration is not included in the graph. Only what is happening in the lateral world (plane perpendicular to the forward movement of the bike).
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 8th, 2012, 09:29 AM | #17 |
Wartown, USA
Name: Bryan
Location: Warner Robins, GA
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Cool, I put a G-meter on my bike with a data logger, and a 45 deg feeler stick on the foot pegs...and took a ride in the twisties....pretty dang accurate chart. Speed didnt seem to be much of a factor, +/-.3g, which is probably just the accuracy level of my g-meter or lean angle.
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December 15th, 2012, 02:02 PM | #18 |
CVMA / AFM / M1GP #250
Name: Steve
Location: Los Angeles
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how about lean angle vs ass clench.
I call not it for measuring the 2nd one. |
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December 16th, 2012, 12:37 PM | #19 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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One might be able to buy a "device" capable of measuring said "clench" from here.
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December 16th, 2012, 12:44 PM | #20 | |
Fast-Guy wannabe
Name: Jason
Location: Brentwood, Ca
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Quote:
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December 16th, 2012, 12:47 PM | #21 | |
ninjette.org dude
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December 16th, 2012, 12:58 PM | #22 |
ninjette.org guru
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throw a spanner in the works
a few can-am clubs popping up down under. http://www.can-am.brp.com/ their g force should be calculated like a car?? |
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December 16th, 2012, 02:03 PM | #23 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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Some serious expertise in said "clench" has been exposed here.
My advice would be as about tensing the arms: just relax and let it enter..........the curve.
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 16th, 2012, 05:53 PM | #24 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
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lol..... **** has hit the fan now....
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December 18th, 2012, 02:44 PM | #25 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
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Quote:
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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December 20th, 2012, 01:57 PM | #26 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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Another one.
We are seeing a frontal view of the bike and rider. The red arc represents how the top of the bike moves along the whole range of leaning, the 0.0 point represents the tires' contact patch. Note that, for steadily increasing speed, the higher variation of lean angle happens around 45 degrees (~55 mph). Same thing, different presentation:
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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April 28th, 2014, 07:30 AM | #27 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
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I always had a gut feeling... but now I got confirmation. Seems I like to spend alot of time near 1g too.
I am really digging decent telemetry.
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April 28th, 2014, 07:37 AM | #28 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
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^^ that telemetry and data acq is pretty sweet
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January 13th, 2017, 03:36 PM | #29 |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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Original related article is in German; this is a Google translation:
https://translate.googleusercontent....2chDRL5vcWrnGQ
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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January 13th, 2017, 07:34 PM | #30 |
n00bie to wannabie
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Lol! You got me Hernan!
Sorry @Misti & @Alex: I must remember to check the date of posts before interacting with them!
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January 14th, 2017, 10:17 AM | #31 |
Track Clown
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Makes me wonder what kind of G-forces i was experiencing when i crashed in the bowl at chuckwalla.
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January 14th, 2017, 11:18 AM | #32 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
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Quote:
Look for "Human tolerance" and "Typical examples" here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G-force
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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January 14th, 2017, 04:09 PM | #33 | |
ninjette.org dude
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"Gadzooks, goddammit, gee whiz, goodness, good grief, gosh, goodbye"
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January 14th, 2017, 07:11 PM | #34 |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
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i lost the front end on the 250 pinned in 6th. I blacked out and the next thing i remember was sliding at the top of the track, then i hit the dirt and started tumbling.
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January 23rd, 2017, 11:25 AM | #35 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Misti
Location: Vancouver, BC
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): currently: Yamaha YZF 250 dirt/motard Posts: 787
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Doh, that doesn't sound fun....
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