October 8th, 2013, 10:43 AM | #281 | |
Easy Rider
Name: Alex
Location: Brooklyn
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250R Posts: 126
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
www.atrubindesign.com |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 10:53 AM | #282 | |
nub
Name: Adam
Location: PA
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 zx-14 Posts: 142
|
Quote:
|
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 10:55 AM | #283 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
|
an organized criminal gang (not wearing helmets mind you) and an unorganized criminal gang?
and ditto about wording being ****
__________________________________________________
I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
|
October 8th, 2013, 10:57 AM | #284 |
Easy Rider
Name: Alex
Location: Brooklyn
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250R Posts: 126
|
This would work for NYC bicyclists they really get away with murder.
__________________________________________________
www.atrubindesign.com |
|
October 8th, 2013, 11:19 AM | #285 | |
ninjette.org guru
Name: I'm a ninja!
Location: Stone Mtn
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 Posts: 453
|
Quote:
2. When was the last time YOU rode past a car in the SAME lane and didn't realize the car was there?? How do you unknowingly pull in front of something that takes up the entire driving lane? 3. As for your tailgating comment: did you watch the video? You make it seem like the motorcycle has always been in front of the RR and the RR came out of nowhere and decided he wanted to save on gas so he tailgated the CBR. I will say this again since you didn't respond/see my other post: He is on a motorcycle and they are faster than the car. Assuming the RR was trying to run him over, he could have just gassed it. Anytime a vehicle is closing in on me when I'm on my bike or car, I try to put distance between us. 4. Why don't you get into a parked car and let me smash at it with a helmet. I'm sure you will not be thinking "Oh I'm cool because I'm in a car ." I'm sure you would have flinched at the initial impact. 5. If the RR attempted to run some people over he would have done more than just gas it. If I wanted to run people over, I would have turned to the left and ran that guy over in the black clothes. I also would have put the car in reverse at the stop of traffic and ran more people over. When the guy tried to open his door, he only drove forward. That was his perfect opportunity to go in reverse and then forward to run that guy's bike over. 6. Your lack of logic is astounding!! |
|
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
October 8th, 2013, 11:26 AM | #286 |
Easy Rider
Name: Alex
Location: Brooklyn
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250R Posts: 126
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYR5joj73Es
this happened in brazil the The man claimed riders surrounded his vehicle and began beating on it, causing him to panic and fear for his life.
__________________________________________________
www.atrubindesign.com |
|
October 8th, 2013, 11:28 AM | #287 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
...we don't live in Brazil.
The word of the day is relevance. |
|
October 8th, 2013, 11:29 AM | #288 | ||||||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
||||||
|
October 8th, 2013, 11:33 AM | #289 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
|
it's all how you spin it and which crowd you're playing for, sometimes you're a hero and sometimes you're the villain.
I don't like to call people out and that is not what im doing here but this just helps try and put things into perspective IMO. So many riders greeted this story with applause and cheers, but what if you add 200 more bikers to the story and pick up end of this story with NYC video, does it change your tone regarding the initial reaction of "hero" biker? If so what changed your opinion? Why? Just think about it. http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=142482 P.S. Save your uncreative "not close to being similar!! RAGE RAGE RAGE!!" responses, i'm asking you to use your imaginations and create the scenario that is similar starting from actual story. (I know... a lot to ask)
__________________________________________________
I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
|
October 8th, 2013, 11:34 AM | #290 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: Feb 2011 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Feb '13, Feb '14
|
Let me clear something up here. It wasn't an optical illusion. This isn't a magic show. What you're trying to say is that because of our POV, we can't accurately tell if he was slowing down or if the SUV sped up. That's not an illusion. That's relative velocity.
I disagree with you completely. He was a cornered animal. He reacted as such. I'm going back to watching this thread instead of commenting in it. |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
October 8th, 2013, 11:38 AM | #291 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
you make so much sense, and your mindset is not clouded overwhelmingly by the factor of motorcycle ownership.
__________________________________________________
Ethioknight Memorial Fund- Sticker sale http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111700 |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 12:45 PM | #292 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Ben
Location: R'lyeh
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 GSXR 750; 1983 CB750SC Posts: 277
|
This is what I saw:
The motorcycle shares a lane with the RR, which he does because he does not see it. He looks towards it while he is beside it because he is looking for his friends in the far right lane. Then, because he does not see the RR, he merges over into the middle lane. Now, he looks backwards to see if his friends are there. Every single bike then simultaneously accelerates to create the illusion that Cruz is slowing down, and masque the fact that the RR is accelerating to hit Cruz. |
|
October 8th, 2013, 01:03 PM | #293 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Justin
Location: Fresno CA
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): 12' Ninja 250 Posts: 831
|
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 01:04 PM | #294 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
The motorcyclist who took video of a group of motorcyclists says SUV driver Alexian Lien threw a water bottle at the cyclists before he started recording.
"Kevin Bresloff turned on his helmet camera shortly after the riders encountered the black Range Rover, says his lawyer, Andrew Vecere. "From speaking to him, what he saw - or what he believes that he saw was a water bottle come out of the sunroof of the car," Vecere said. Asked he is referring to the SUV -- and if someone threw it -- Vecere said, "Yes, correct." http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ng-suv-driver/ A diaper full of sh** would have been hilarious. |
|
October 8th, 2013, 01:20 PM | #295 | ||||||
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I confess. I have on occasion actually turned my head and looked into a lane that I was changing into. In your eyes, that makes me guilty of trying to cause an accident. I'm not sure where the relevance is about SUV vs bike speed. This particular SUV actually outran many of those particular sport bikes for a short while. A Ninja 250 can't outrun ALL cars - just most. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
||||||
|
October 8th, 2013, 01:24 PM | #296 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
But judging from the responses here, it really doesn't matter who was right or wrong, the bikers aren't going to get a fair trial because everyone already thinks they're guilty. And more than likely, Lien will get off scott free.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 01:28 PM | #297 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
|
You're repeating your points that people have debunked, and ignoring any response that directly refutes what you are proposing. The rider admitted on camera that he was trying to slow the RR down. To try and say now that he really wasn't doing so, and only admitted to doing so later under duress, means you are inserting a particularly unique brand of logic. We're all entitled to our own opinions, but you are making up facts as you go, and illogically denying things that have already been established.
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered) |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
October 8th, 2013, 01:46 PM | #298 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
Where is the video where the first rider said he was trying to slow the SUV down which caused the accident? Link please.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 01:52 PM | #299 | ||
ninjette.org guru
Name: I'm a ninja!
Location: Stone Mtn
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 Posts: 453
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________________________________________
Don't argue with a fool. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
||
|
October 8th, 2013, 02:01 PM | #300 |
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
|
__________________________________________________
I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/ |
|
October 8th, 2013, 02:07 PM | #301 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: I'm a ninja!
Location: Stone Mtn
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 Posts: 453
|
The only media I'm looking at is the video. If you pause the video at the 29 second mark you will see that the CBR was not hit by the RR. If he was hit then he would have skin rash to prove it since he wasn't wearing a jacket. Any rider on here can attest to the skin rash if they have seen or been in a minor accident. Hell, you can get skin rash just from playing basketball and someone pushes you down on the pavement. Also, the guy in black was walking towards the group instead of running. If my riding partner was hurt, I would be running towards them to see if they are okay. No one in the video seemed concerned so that tells me he must not have been hit or I would have at least heard the guy on the video say something like "oh sh*t".
__________________________________________________
Don't argue with a fool. He will only bring you down to his level and beat you with experience. |
|
October 8th, 2013, 02:08 PM | #302 |
Easy Rider
Name: Alex
Location: Brooklyn
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250R Posts: 126
|
the witness said that SUV clipped someone way before the video starts. Just what the dirt biker told me on that Sunday. Meaning the RR was involved in a previous incident before the "brake check" (spelled it right this time)
__________________________________________________
www.atrubindesign.com |
|
October 8th, 2013, 02:49 PM | #303 |
not an actual panda
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250, 2009 CBR600RR (Sold) Posts: A lot.
|
Maybe, maybe not. It's hearsay and conjecture at this point. Maybe he clipped somebody, maybe he didn't. Maybe somebody else brake checked him. Who knows?
|
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
October 8th, 2013, 03:09 PM | #304 | |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
In other news.... NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) – An undercover police officer has been arrested in connection with the motorcycle gang attack on an SUV driver last week in Manhattan, CBS 2 reported. The cop was one of two undercover officers who participated in the ride that made national headlines after it was caught on video and posted to YouTube. Although the officer’s lawyer, Phil Karasyk, said Monday that the detective had only witnessed other bikers attacking the vehicle, investigators believe, after reviewing video evidence, that he banged on the SUV and broke the rear window. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/...-due-in-court/ Monster Truck Runs over Trike http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-VT9TVQB6Q |
|
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
October 8th, 2013, 03:41 PM | #305 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Jason
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2012 EX250, 2014 EX300 Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
__________________________________________________
Ethioknight Memorial Fund- Sticker sale http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111700 |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 03:42 PM | #306 | |
Avid Kitteh Poster
Name: Justin
Location: Norcal
Join Date: Sep 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Yamaha TTR 50 SUCK IT Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
Give me a source with this "witnesses" statement or bullshit. Its time to put up or shut up.
__________________________________________________
I powdercoat stuff Help me pay for my addiction I say funny stuff. http://twitter.com/JustinPWNSyou sometimes... I write like a 12 year old too, http://justinpwnsyou.wordpress.com/ |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 04:19 PM | #307 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: .
Location: .
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250R SE GREEN! Posts: 562
|
Quote:
But really, when I started watching I took the perspective of the rider with the camera and was just as emotional as the bikers. Later on I realized what was really happening and would have reacted the same way as the driver of the RR. My guess is not all the bikers knew what was really happening, they just saw their friends get run over for "no reason" and let me tell you if I saw my friend get run over I'd be smashing their windows out with my helmet just as fast. Try watching it again from the driver's perspective, probably an intimidated immigrant who doesn't realize that motorcycle gear makes you look jacked. Also helmets block your face so he can't tell if he's being attacked or offered ice cream. Think about what he must hear about in the news every day living in NYC, now he's becoming one of those stories
__________________________________________________
Trust me, I'm a banana! |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 04:24 PM | #308 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
[sarcasm_mode] The fact that the SUV driver was seen throwing objects at the bikers and also had previously knocked one down two miles before the video started absolutely proves that I was totally wrong and he is 100% justified to kill and maim any of them because he was so terrified that he had to antagonize them further in order to keep his wife and kid safe. [/sarcasm_mode] But regarding the optical illusion, please take a very close look at the video again. First, watch the yellow bike with the blue jacket directly in front. Do you see the sudden lurch of acceleration of the camera bike around the time of impact? Second, before the lurch, watch the SUV alone. The camera bike is going faster than the SUV when he first starts to overtake the SUV. This causes an optical effect that makes the SUV look like its moving backwards in the frame. NOW, just before impact, you can see the nose of the SUV again, but this time its NOT moving backwards. So at the time of impact, the SUV is moving at the same speed as the camera bike. Thus, he was accelerating towards the first biker. Its easy to say "He was soooooo dumb that he did [insert stupid thing]." But really, is there anyone here dumb enough to deliberately cut off a 4 ton vehicle with a motorcycle and then slam on the brakes? Is it really fair to say someone else is that dumb?
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 04:28 PM | #309 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
|
When it's caught on video, yes. Watching the same video as you, and not seeing the optical illusion you are conjuring up.
BTW: The quotes / videos online that you're looking for can be found by searching on "Louis Castaldo stop", one of the riders quoted as trying to slow/stop the RR. He says that's exactly what was happening at the start of the infamous video.
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered) |
|
October 8th, 2013, 04:47 PM | #310 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
So you are saying that A) you don't see a lurch of acceleration of the camera bike; and B) you don't recognize the acceleration of the SUV; and C) you can look at the 1st biker and conclude that he is bracing for impact. Is any of that true?
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
October 8th, 2013, 04:48 PM | #311 | |
Easy Rider
Name: Alex
Location: Brooklyn
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): 250R Posts: 126
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motofool View Post This witness disagrees with your frame shots and descriptions: http://video.bostonherald.com/EXCLUS...c&VID=25226249 This is the video I'm talking about he says same thing as what I herd on Sunday from the dirt biker. And most likely the fact that no one comes forward that he hit them is because the rider was either not insured or unregistered etc. edit: I wasn't alone there, TC young was with me and herd him say it. I'm not saying its true but i think we should take it into the account. that its two eye witness reports.
__________________________________________________
www.atrubindesign.com |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 04:52 PM | #312 | |
not an actual panda
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250, 2009 CBR600RR (Sold) Posts: A lot.
|
Quote:
I think you should give up. Sometimes people are wrong. Today that person is you. |
|
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
October 8th, 2013, 05:02 PM | #314 |
not an actual panda
Name: dan
Location: philadelphia
Join Date: Aug 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250, 2009 CBR600RR (Sold) Posts: A lot.
|
It's absolutely brilliant. There was another cop there that is part of IA.
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 05:07 PM | #315 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jack
Location: California
Join Date: Aug 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R Posts: 81
|
Quote:
|
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 05:09 PM | #316 | |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
|
Quote:
B - you're full of it C - he's not bracing for impact, because he thinks the RR will brake hard enough to avoid him as he slows. He loses that bet.
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered) |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 05:12 PM | #317 |
nub
Name: Adam
Location: PA
Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 zx-14 Posts: 142
|
You can clearly see the brake light on the bike some on
Also, you can clearly see the front of the suv dip as he breaks to try to svoid hitting the moron |
|
October 8th, 2013, 05:33 PM | #318 |
ninjette.org member
Name: AZ
Location: Orlando FL
Join Date: Oct 2012 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Ninja 250 Posts: 213
|
|
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
October 8th, 2013, 05:44 PM | #319 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: D
Location: Palm Beach, FL
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2006 Ninja 250R, 2007 EFI Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 1
|
Quote:
Could it be because he was already trying to run from a previous hit and run before the video started as several witness have come forward to testify? Or perhaps the more obvious, he hates bikers and hitting one was the goal? Not only that, but the rear tire of the bike actually impacted the left front bumper/fender of the SUV. All the SUV would have had to do to avoid the impact was to veer over a few inches to the right. The SUV had a superior view of the incident and could have avoided it in several ways. With all these witnesses coming forward, it is starting to look a lot less hopeless that Lien will get charged with instigating the whole thing.
__________________________________________________
My Ninja Blog Proud member of ABATE.My NYC Road Rage documentary - CENSORED! |
|
|
October 8th, 2013, 05:52 PM | #320 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
|
No, no, and no. He couldn't move right because there were bikes directly to the right of his vehicle. As already stated in this thread, it's quite possible much of his attention is on those bikes, trying to figure out how not to hit them while moving to the right side of the lane to avoid moron #1 who just cut him off. You state his obvious intent is to hit a biker, while the only thing that is truly obvious is that you're being willfully obtuse. You're ascribing intent where there is none, and misrepresenting video that is in fact obvious to almost all but you.
Lien isn't going to get charged with anything. I'm pretty sure you know that and are just posturing.
__________________________________________________
Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered) |
2 out of 2 members found this post helpful. |
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Dirt biker being chased by SUV. | agentbad | Videos | 9 | September 1st, 2014 03:10 PM |
guy avoids an SUV in the ass | alex.s | Videos | 12 | August 16th, 2014 09:07 AM |
[RideApart] - The ADV Is The SUV On Two Wheels | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | May 19th, 2014 06:10 AM |
a Guy in his BMW SUV likes my 250R . . . | ScorpionNinja | General Motorcycling Discussion | 21 | June 16th, 2009 02:31 AM |
[2wf.com] - Elmo SUV Cam | Ninjette Newsbot | Motorcycling News | 0 | November 4th, 2008 03:10 PM |
|
|