October 20th, 2014, 11:16 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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Sputters When Warmed Up
So, recent development with my '08, the bike is sputtering after the engine has thoroughly warmed up.
This started gradually, noticed it one morning on my way to work as an extremely slight sputter on the freeway, it was so slight that I was having a hard time distinguishing it from possible bumps on the road. Over the course of the next 3 or 4 days the sputtering got progressively worse after the warm up of the engine until it got bad enough to completely die roughly 1/4 mile from home while rolling to a stop sign. Luckily I was able to start her back up and get her home and she's been torn apart ever since. First thing that came to mind was that it was a fuel delivery issue. Tried popping the gas tank thinking perhaps it was the all too common vacuum issue but this was not the case. I also tried tearing the carbs off and peaking around inside to make sure everything was fine. She's my daily commuter so bad gas gunking up the innards was not something that I suspected, but I figured it couldn't hurt to check everything out. I inspected the seals, jets, floats, and the needle, only thing that was off strangely was a shim in one of the carbs, it was off floating around inside somehow. After putting it back in place the bike still ran the same during a garage test. Started up and ran for the first few minutes just fine, then came all the sputtering and eventual shut down after getting up to temperature. I put a snake camera down the valves and through the spark plug holes to check out the engine best I could and nothing looked out of the ordinary, though the piston heads did have a funny, rough texture to them which I am unsure of being normal or not. Changed the spark plugs and still no fix. Going to change out the jets just to see if for whatever reason they need to be bigger but I'm doubting it, I've ran every day for the past year on the same jet sizes with no problems. The bike has a little over 30,000 miles on it, Dynojet kit with needles on 2nd clip with 2 shims each, full Yoshi exhaust, snorkel delete, and removed air box with the K&N 0990 filter. I am beginning to suspect electrical gremlins, bad ignition coils perhaps? Searched the site and various others with no real definitive direction to pursue. Any advice and/or further questions are welcome. Thanks guys.
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ATGATT |
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October 21st, 2014, 05:22 AM | #2 |
Long Time Rider
Name: Blue
Location: Charlotte, NC
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Kawasaki Ninja 250R Posts: A lot.
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October 21st, 2014, 02:01 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Brian
Location: Orange County, CA
Join Date: Apr 2012 Motorcycle(s): '12 ninja 250r Posts: 762
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There are definitely several possibilities that will show these symptoms. I went through similar troubles recently.
I agree with Blue though, easiest check would be to dump the tank and bowls and put fresh gas in. |
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October 23rd, 2014, 10:05 AM | #4 |
Hello Moto
Name: Alex
Location: Ft. Myers
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 1975 RD350; 2001 KX125; 2003 Z1000; 2003 KDX50; 2009 ZX6R; 2011 Ninja 250R; 2014 KX250F Posts: 352
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I suspect bad gas too.
But valve clearances out of spec can also cause sputtering from mistimed valve openings and closing. How many miles are on the bike and were the valves ever adjusted? |
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October 24th, 2014, 06:59 PM | #5 | ||
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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Quote:
Quote:
I've been working a lot recently so have not had time to test out the bike with the new gasoline, (bike is too loud and I get home too late) but I have 3 days off coming up starting Sunday where I will be tearing through the bike to try and figure out what is going on. I'll report back my findings.
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October 25th, 2014, 08:50 AM | #6 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
Location: Florida
Join Date: Mar 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2007 Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
It seems to me a weak spark that becomes intermittent with hotter conditions (higher temp = higher pressure in the chamber = harder on sparks to jump). I would check each connection of the ignition system (starting with the ones exposed to weather and vibrations), including switches and magnetic pick up and broken wires. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Ignition_circuit_schematic Disconnecting one plug at a time may tell you what cylinder is missing explosions when the temperature increases; also this: http://www.harborfreight.com/inline-...ker-69014.html
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Motofool .................................Never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly "Mankind is composed of two sorts of men — those who love and create, and those who hate and destroy. Love is the bond between men, the way to teach and the center of the world." - José Martí |
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October 26th, 2014, 01:28 PM | #7 | ||
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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Quote:
Quote:
Drained the tank entirely (took the petcock off) and drained the carbs out and then put a fresh gallon of gasoline in. First I did a garage test, turned it on and let it run in the garage for some time. There were some minor hiccups that I noticed and it did die one time over a period of about a 20 minute test but I gave it the benefit of the doubt and shrugged them off as potential air bubbles caught in the lines and in the carbs. The bike reached a peak water temperature of about 198 degrees Fahrenheit before the fan kept kicking on and cooling it back off. I adjusted the idle to keep the RPMs at about 3,000 just to heat it up faster. I noticed that the idle RPM wasn't quite as stable as I remember while functioning normally, it fluctuated up and down by about 100 rpm at sporadic intervals. About an hour later I took it out for a road test. Starting temperature was about 112 degrees, I rode it for approximately 2 miles in total but it still had sputtering issues, and it died while rolling to stop signs again. Bad gasoline as the culprit is out of the question I would say. Worth the shot though. So what's next? Coils? Is there a way I can test those with a multimeter?
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ATGATT |
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October 26th, 2014, 04:51 PM | #8 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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Just got done with a multimeter resistance test on both coils, the details on how to conduct this test were in the service manual.
The service manual states that the ignition coil resistance should be between 2.1 and 3.2 ohms for the primary windings, and between 10 and 16 kilo ohms for the secondary windings. The primary windings on both of my ignition coils are at around 2.6 ohms which is just fine, however BOTH ignition coils' secondary windings are at 18.5 kilo ohms. I have a hard time believing that BOTH of them would be bad, and it's even more strange that they BOTH would be bad reading the SAME resistance value. The service manual marks the ranges with a tilde indicating that they are approximate values so I'm thinking my values, though slightly outside of this range, are okay. Can anyone confirm that they too have a value out of the service manual's range and are operating just fine? FYI, the bolts holding the ignition coils on are 7mm, and SUCK getting off if you don't have a 7mm socket. All my sets stop at 8mm... I will be attempting a spark test here next. I will report back with my findings again.
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ATGATT |
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October 26th, 2014, 05:30 PM | #9 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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The spark seems just fine too, getting a strong blue arc from both plugs. Granted, the bike has long since cooled off, however I do not know how to conduct this test while the bike is still hot. Any other recommendations
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ATGATT |
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October 26th, 2014, 08:02 PM | #10 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Couple things I would try -
When it quits, open the float bowls and see if you get the same amount of gas out of each. As it's starting to run poorly, add choke to see if it has any affect. Check the vacuum line to the petcock. Manually apply vacuum to the petcock with a vacuum pump. Check the battery voltage - before cranking, during cranking, and running at idle and 3000 RPMs. |
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October 26th, 2014, 08:26 PM | #11 |
RIP Alex
Name: Cuong
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): '10 250r, '09 265r Posts: A lot.
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How did the the float needles look? Mine showed signs of wear with your mileage replacing it may be a start. Have you checked your vacuum lines? If you used rubber caps for syncing the valves, the rot a whole lot faster than you would think giving way to leaks.
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October 26th, 2014, 09:43 PM | #12 | ||
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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Quote:
What makes you think it could be the petcock vacuum line though? I'll give it a shot but I'm just curious. Quote:
Also can you clarify about the use of rubber caps for the valve syncing? I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Are you referring to a valve clearance adjustment or a carburetor sync? Either way I don't ever recall using or even seeing any rubber caps.
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October 27th, 2014, 06:16 AM | #13 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
Confirming the proper amount of fuel in the floatbowls when it stops running would be another check that would tell you if you had adequate fuel flow to the carbs. Also check all of the screens and filters in the fuel line. |
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November 10th, 2017, 08:22 AM | #14 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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Reviving this simply for closure. I ended up putting the bike away for a couple of years, and I moved from Vegas to mid Michigan. Once I finally got the bike up here, I cleaned out the carbs and changed out the stator. Magically the bike works great now! I've only put a few hundred miles on it max up here, and my wife rides it more than I do now since I picked up a CBR, but no additional problems to report. I was given the advice that the symptoms I had could be caused by a stator going bad and went with it. I don't know if the stator was the fix, or if the climate change was the fix but things are running great now! Though this is "only" a few years too late, thank you all for your help while trying to troubleshoot this!
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ATGATT Last futzed with by Scattcatt; November 10th, 2017 at 11:04 AM. |
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November 10th, 2017, 12:58 PM | #15 |
NinjaBraap
Name: Tom
Location: Long Beach, California
Join Date: Dec 2016 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 636, 2016 Yamaha R3 (Street/Track), 2019 Ninja 400 Project Racebike Posts: 175
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Yeah with over 30k on the bike, I'd highly suspect valve clearances. Also, even if the valve clearances have been done on schedule, you'll notice in the service manual that those intervals get really close together the higher the miles. This is because even with it done on time, after that many miles there's just inherent wear on the bike that'll show up a be a problem. It may be time for at least a top end overhaul.
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November 10th, 2017, 01:07 PM | #16 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250 Posts: A lot.
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November 10th, 2017, 01:23 PM | #17 | |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Zach
Location: Michigan
Join Date: Aug 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2003 Honda CBR600RR Posts: 721
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Quote:
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November 10th, 2017, 01:29 PM | #18 |
NinjaBraap
Name: Tom
Location: Long Beach, California
Join Date: Dec 2016 Motorcycle(s): 06 Ninja 636, 2016 Yamaha R3 (Street/Track), 2019 Ninja 400 Project Racebike Posts: 175
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Nice. I saw that the issue was solved, but I thought I'd offer a bit of advice. I'm just going down the list of problems and seeing which ones I know and which ones I don't. It's also kinda my way of keeping myself current on how things work as well as offering any knowledge I can.
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