July 27th, 2009, 08:50 PM | #1 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Howard
Location: Cypress, So. Cal.
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Candy Thunder Blue Ninja 250R Posts: 618
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Help me create a math formula!
I am would like to know of how much money my bike is saving me and am too stupid to create this formula . I wondered about it after hearing so many times from other people that the Ninjette will soon pay for itself.
My bike gets about 50 to 60 mpg and my base model rsx gets me on average of 25 mpg. I have a little over 4,200 miles on the bike so, how much money on gas have I saved already? I only ask for a formula and not merely the answer because I would like to use this formula again and again and also I thought it would help other members too and hopefully make them happy as well? Hopefully this isn't a stupid request =/ |
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July 27th, 2009, 09:33 PM | #2 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Georgia
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 ninja 250(red) Posts: 193
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4200 miles / by mpgs X Price per gallon =?
do this for the bike and the car then subtact both totals Also I have a 04 civic si and it has the same motor as the base model rsx and I am getting 28 to 29 mpg. |
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July 27th, 2009, 11:22 PM | #3 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Fremont
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '97 Ninjette, '06 Ninja 650R Posts: 49
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I don't mean to be negative but you aren't saving any money by riding a motorcycle. In general, maintenance on a motorcycle far outweighs any potential gas savings.
The formula for mileage alone would be (#miles/mpg(car) - #miles/mpg(bike)) * price per gallon. However, once you determine that dollar amount, you need to take the fact that an RSX OEM tires (not driven super hard) will last about 25-35K miles. Your bike tires will last less than 10K. Your bike will require chain adjustments, valve adjustments, chain lube, etc. Motorcycle oil is approximately 2x the price of car oil. Additionally, while your RSX will run for 200K miles or more if you treat it right, your chances of exceeding 100K miles on your ninja are doubtful (although should you decide to swap or rebuild the engine, it will be much cheaper on the bike). Your RSX will run fairly well with very minimal maintenance (change the oil every 5K and you should be set for a long time). Finally there's gear. Hopefully, you can drive your RSX in whatever you wear around town. If not, you may want to seriously examine your driving habits Your ninja will require that you have (at the bare minimum) a jacket, helmet, gloves, and boots. Start adding in leather pants, upgrading the helmet to a nice Arai (which you do change out every few years because your sweat breaks down the foam, right?) and a back protector, and you're looking at a fairly decent gear investment. http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/I'm_gon...uying_an_EX250 It is worth noting that a buddy and I have been comparing track costs and it appears that it is indeed cheaper to track a motorcycle than a car - given the rate of wear on car tires at the track, and the immense difference in price in those tires. Additionally, suspension upgrades for a car and a bike are significantly different prices. However, as he has been getting me ready for my first track day on the bike, it seems like I keep having to buy little things (back protector, safety wire, etc), so I'm beginning to doubt our previous analysis With all of that (really long, windy post) said, don't worry about what you are or are not saving. The joy of the bike is that you can, not that you should. But you already knew that part... Keep the dirty side down. -Kyle
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July 28th, 2009, 12:11 AM | #4 |
ninjette.org member
Name: navin
Location: houston TX
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 ninja 250r Posts: 39
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if you were making the decision between buying a bike or a car, the bike would certainly be cheaper as the bike would in most cases be significantly cheaper than a new car. But since you have both already, the bike as krbreton said will not really save you any money over your car, in fact since you bought a bike while already having a car (in good running condition presumably), you've already lost money and you would have saved more not buying a bike at all. But this kind of mentality is no fun, and what's the point of live if you can't live it. So don't worry about how much you're saving, just enjoy it.
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July 28th, 2009, 12:17 AM | #5 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Chris
Location: Huntsville, AL
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 755
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True most people wont see any savings by riding a motorcycle, but with a bike like the ninjette, you can own a motorcycle for very little coin. I could almost pay my bike payment every month with the money I save on gas at 2.50 a gallon. With people using gas savings as a prime motivator to buy a 30k prius, Its a much less foolish mistake, and quite a fun one at that to buy a ninjette "for the gas savings" than an ugly appliance like hybrid.
One of the motivations I had for buying my bike was thinking that is was a very real possibility that gas would hit 4 dollars a gallon this summer. Well that did not happen, but that was not a real big reason I got the bike, I just wanted a motorcycle, gas savings was just what I needed to "sell myself" so I could part with my money. My only regret on getting my bike was that I really really wish I would have bought used. I could have paid cash for a used one, but now im upside down on my bike loan, I got raped with dealer fees, I want to upgrade soon, the over inflated market for the new gens dried up, and I blew through the money I had saved up. At least my car will be paid off in December, that will free up an extra 280 a month that I can pay down my bike with. |
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July 28th, 2009, 12:56 AM | #6 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Howard
Location: Cypress, So. Cal.
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Candy Thunder Blue Ninja 250R Posts: 618
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ty kyle. I am actually starting to consider purchasing the honda fit a few months down the line instead of buying another motorcycle (both intended to keep for years) because of your post. I just worry about peak oil ,when the price of oil will sky rocket and wonder when gasoline powered will become obsolete.
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July 28th, 2009, 09:03 AM | #7 | ||||||
ATGATT Squid Killer
Name: Chad
Location: So. Cal
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '06 CBR600 Posts: 189
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Quote:
Quote:
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Being that this is a ninjette forum, I'll use it as the example. -My EX250 holds 1.9 quarts of oil. -My V8 truck holds 5 quarts of oil. -I use Shell Rotella T (synthetic) which costs 20 dollars per gallon (good for two oil changes)--or 5 dollars per quart--which is LESS THAN the price of the Mobil 1 synthetic I run in my truck. So not only is my synthetic oil cheaper, but I use LESS per oil change in comparison to my truck. Quote:
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Shoei TZR $199.99 Alpinestars SMX-5s: 189.99 Teknic Chicane Leather Jacket: 109 Teknic Chicane Supervent textile pant: 109 Joe Rocket gloves: 53.99 Total: ~660 dollars Bike (used) $2,000 Insurance 1 year: $213 (To compare, my 10 year old truck costs 3 times as much @ $660 a year to insure with a perfect driving record) GRAND TOTAL starting from NOTHING to getting a myself out the door, onto a bike: $2,877 We can even round it up a little higher for the can of chain lube I bought if you want. Depending how much I ride, I spend MAYBE 20 dollars a month on gasoline. In my truck I was filling up between once per week (or two weeks if I was REALLY lucky) @ $45 per tank (gas is expensive in southern California). I realize I have a slight advantage in this argument being that I drove a gas guzzling truck. Even so, while you may not save AS much money as I do by driving a motorcycle, you WILL still save something. To the original poster: there's no simple formula to take into consideration. You can get one to see what you save on gasoline, but when you throw in maintenance variables it starts to get a little less scientific. But don't be fooled. You WILL save money on a motorcycle. |
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July 28th, 2009, 09:15 AM | #8 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
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Over the years I've found cost per mile on our bikes to be much higher than cost per mile on our cars. The gas mileage gain is nice, but the tire bill alone completely overwhelms it. We change 4 tires on a car every 40k - 50k miles at an average cost of $800, so let's call that changing 1 tire every 10K miles at a cost of $200. On our bikes I'm changing the rear at every 3K - 4K at most, and often at 2K on the more powerful bikes; the fronts can usually go 5k to 6k. Which means every 6K I'm changing 3 tires, or 1 tire every 2K miles at a cost of $175 (avg of front & rear tire + mounting/balancing). So the tire bill for us at least, is 4 to 5 times as much, by mileage, as a car. I keep pretty detailed financial records, and awhile back brought up how much we've spent on motorcycle maintenance over the years (which includes tire costs), and brought back a number I wish I hadn't seen. Good thing the fun per mile on bikes is off the charts.
I'm sure it's quite possible for people to save money on a motorcycle compared to a car, but to do so it requires buying a pretty-well-used example of a bike dirt-cheap, putting rock-hard tires on it, riding it like an invalid to keep the tires usable for 10k - 15k miles, and either skipping all major maintenance or doing absolutely everything yourself. I know people who in fact fit all of these requirements, and I'd bet that over time they very well may be saving some coin with their bike.
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July 28th, 2009, 10:12 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org member
Name: SHIFT
Location: QUEENS, NYC
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Candy Plasma Blue Posts: 125
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doesnt the constant maintenance on motorcycles make riding more expensive that driving a car?
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July 28th, 2009, 10:14 AM | #10 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Fremont
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '97 Ninjette, '06 Ninja 650R Posts: 49
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Quote:
Quote:
Because gas is such a continuous, and obvious expense, people tend to weight it higher in the overall cost of their experience. When you put the numbers down on paper, you find that gas savings is only a part (often a small part) of the equation. This was evidenced by the high price of gas last year, when people were dumping their cars and screaming about gas prices. Unless you were truly living on the border of your budget, the change in gas prices was pretty insignificant compared to, for example, the monthly payment on a decent car, or your morning *$ obsession. As far as full obsoletion of gas - the moto's not going to help you there. You can "suck", "squish", and "blow" all you want but without the "bang" part of the cycle, you're not going to move very far The Honda fit is a great car. A lot of fun to toss around in the canyons (if you're a canyon carver in your car as well as your bike), and a surprisingly roomy and agile car. Can't see you going wrong with that, but it's not going to move the soul like a motorcycle -Kyle
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Not all those who wander are lost... -J.R.R. Tolkien |
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July 28th, 2009, 11:14 AM | #11 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Chris
Location: Huntsville, AL
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250 (sold) Posts: 755
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I can only get 15 to 20k out of a set of tires for my car, (Performance tires combined with a hooligan at the wheel) So for me motorcycle tires are going to be about the same price or cheaper for me. My car is also getting up there in miles and needs a crapload of maintenance in the near future, I can put this off for quite a while as I might drive my car 2 or 3 times a month now.
Just saying, even though most of us have the same motorcycle, so the expenses should be similar, our car expenses are going to vary greatly. |
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July 28th, 2009, 11:28 AM | #12 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Kyle
Location: Fremont
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): '97 Ninjette, '06 Ninja 650R Posts: 49
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Quote:
For full disclosure - I drive a little 2-seater sports car with suspension upgrades and shod in Michelin PS2's that get about 15K out of a $1k set of tires. It gets about 20mpg on the street. I rag the car at the track, and change oil, brake fluid, brake pads, rotors, and diff fluid regularly due to the abuse that it takes. One years worth of payments on that car are almost five times what I payed for my 250. However, that isn't the "typical" scenario, and certainly isn't the comparison against the OP's RSX, which is a nice, reliable, reasonably priced vehicle (my wife had one for a few years and we never put more than gas and oil into it.). -Kyle
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Not all those who wander are lost... -J.R.R. Tolkien |
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July 28th, 2009, 01:10 PM | #13 |
sir posts a lot
Name: michael
Location: HI
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Black 250R Posts: 267
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Also I have a 04 civic si and it has the same motor as the base model rsx and I am getting 28 to 29 mpg.[/QUOTE]
I dont think the civic si had the same engine as the rsx. both rsxs had the K20 and the civic didnt get this motor untill the new civic (the cool looking one). The only civic (incl the SI) had a 1.6 liter where as all the RSXs have a 2.0 liter engine. Now to the OP your gas miliage is pretty low. I would drive my RSX-S like it needed to be and NEVER got below 30 mpg...EVER
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A girl walks into a bar and orders a "double entendre" So the bartender gave it to her "once you go black, you never go back." |
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July 28th, 2009, 10:07 PM | #14 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Chris
Location: Georgia
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 09 ninja 250(red) Posts: 193
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92-95 civic si had 1.6 SOHC (D16) same motor as civic ex
99-00 civic si had 1.6 DOHC Vtec (B16A2) 02-05 civic si and base RSX have 2.0 DOHC i-vtec(K20A3) RSX has a different intake manifold. Is more like the GSR manifold. Now the RSX type S has 2.0 DOHC i-vtec K20A2 The new civic si (07-09) has 2.0 DOHC i-vtec has K20something |
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July 29th, 2009, 12:05 AM | #15 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Nick
Location: Sacramento, California.
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250r Posts: 379
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Yep no saving money with a bike..
a good rear tire: ~27 miles per $1. ~1.85/gallon @50mpg Front tire: ~42 miles per $1. ~1.19/gallon @50mpg ~$3.04 per 50 miles in tires alone @50mpg. It does help negate some of the costs that we get good gas mileage...but doesn't exactly put you in the black. But hey all the fun you get riding it + road rash = priceless |
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July 29th, 2009, 05:12 AM | #16 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Remy
Location: Moncton
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '04 sv650s Posts: 438
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If you really want to save money you have to get rid of the car / sell it. You won't save money by maintaining 2 vehicles. If you factor in the price of the bike + gears you're at 4000$ already..that's alot of gas you could have put into your car. My cost of ownership of my car dramatically went down though, less tires, brakes and oil to change and less gas to put in, so who knows..
But then that's just a way to see it, I'd rather spend money on anything but gas, so it's cool with me .
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There's 2 types of people in this world, those who complain and those who act. |
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July 29th, 2009, 06:09 AM | #17 |
ninjette.org sage
Name: Tin
Location: NJ
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 black 250r (sold); '09 black zx6r Posts: 903
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I bought a bike because a bike could give me something my car coudn't. It gives me a different kind of excitement and pleasure. If you're buying a bike thinking that it will save you a few $$$, then I suggest you look into public transportations. Let's face it. We all ride because riding is FUN period.
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July 29th, 2009, 06:20 AM | #18 |
Professional belly dancer
Name: James
Location: Toronto
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 1992 GSX-R 750 Posts: A lot.
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This kind of mathematical formula is very difficult to standardize. I'll use myself as an example. I am currently seeing some monthly savings by using my bike more than my car, but this is because:
-I drive a WRX...that thing get's 20 MPG on average, on premium gas. -since I've started commuting to work (downtown), I've been able to save money by not having to buy the monthly pass for the train. -Parking on the street, for a motorcycle, is free in Toronto. So far I've managed to see a gas savings of $30 for the month of June, and also saw an additional savings of $60 from not buying that pesky monthly train pass. The real catalyst to these savings is that the parking is free. If this was not the case i'm pretty sure I wouldn't be saving anything. |
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July 29th, 2009, 08:30 AM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Sean
Location: Mary Esther, FL
Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.
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http://www.whybike.com/blog/index.php?p=150
Too many variables for too many people to say one can save more money than the other. |
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July 29th, 2009, 08:35 AM | #20 |
Psychic war veteran
Name: Thomas
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): Kawi Green '09 Ninja ZX6R Posts: 663
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Every time that I've ever seen it "studied" and put in print in any motorcycle magazine, the TOTAL COST OF OWNERSHIP comparrison between an economy bike and an economy car came out in favor of the car in simple dollar terms.
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* If you're arguing with some idiot over the internet, chances are pretty good he's doing the same thing! Zodiac Mindwarp and the Love Reaction |
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September 1st, 2009, 10:17 PM | #21 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Eli
Location: San Jose, CA
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Ninja 250 Posts: 159
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I like how the word Total Cost of Ownership is thrown around like it was known what was included.
Depreciation of the value of the car goes down 1-3k right off the lot. Would that be part of the total cost of ownership? Would the yearly depreciation of the cars value be considered in the total cost of ownership? I know how much I bought my car and what its worth now and i can't even get it back. love it or hate it a running ninja 250 holds it value very well. I really don't even understand how this argument of a car vs a bike makes any sense.
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Bay Area Event Coming Up: June 2, 2012 Mike's Newb Group Ride |
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September 2nd, 2009, 03:25 AM | #22 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jerry
Location: California
Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2007 EX250 Posts: 178
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Lies, damn Lies, and Statistics
I can almost make the numbers work, when I'm trying real hard to justify riding a motorcycle...
Ninja250 vs. a Suburban... FTW Ninja250 vs. a Suzuki Swift...Fail You buy the bike 'cause you want it...you fudge the numbers for your wife, so it makes "sense," and she'll let you have it... Works for me.... You just can't quantify the fun factor, and that's really what it's all about... It's a wash at best, but dang, it's fun. |
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September 2nd, 2009, 06:19 AM | #23 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Eli
Location: San Jose, CA
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Ninja 250 Posts: 159
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the msrp on a chevy aveo (suzuki swift) is 12k new
Went on Cars.com and found a 2005 chevy aveo with 160K miles for 2800. Kbb said this car was worth roughly 3k at private party Do you know what maintenance is needed with a car with that many miles? Here it is replace engine oil every 3k, Tire rotation, Air filter replacement, spark plug replacement, cooling system service, EVAP system service, PCV system service, Timing belt inspection, Brake and clutch fluid change, Spark plug wire replacement, Timing belt replacement if needed (along with the water pump and tensioner), Evap system Solenoid valve replacement, Fuel filter replacement Any leaky gaskets, or broken motor mounts. Checking the charging system and making sure it doesn't leave you stranded. Lubing up the entire car, and since this car is an automatic.....hoping that the transmission isn't slipping or low on fluid If you can buy a car and not do any maintenance on it off the bat and prey nothing goes wrong..you are waiting for a world of hurt. Our bikes cost 500 to 2 thousand dollars for something above a year 2000 model with less than 10k miles. what maintenance are we looking at? oil change, valve adjustment, carb clean and sync, lubing and adjusting the chain, replace the tires if needed, clean the air filter, spark plugs... How do you add it up for initial cost? I'm still in the hole a lot less than I would be in that car. AND! I wouldn't even buy this car! Its a POS and no carpool nor lane sharing! Now, you say to yourself, well what if you need to go to the grocery store? That's a good question. I can pretty much get all I need at the grocery store to fit into my tank bag and back pack. (I'm a single guy) I can literally fit 2-12 packs of soda in my back pack and 4-boxes of nestle drumstick cone boxes into my tank bag. Getting a bike helps you think about what you NEED to get versus what you WANT at the grocery store. For friends potlucks, I buy booze or cookies/brownies, bagels, chips, ice cream, marinated pork, beef, chicken (triple bag these). If you got a wife and kid! get a car! you NEED it unless you live walking distance from everywhere like I could possibly not NEED a car but because I live too far from the hospital, a car is practical for doctors visit for my imaginary sons and daughters.
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Bay Area Event Coming Up: June 2, 2012 Mike's Newb Group Ride |
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September 2nd, 2009, 08:52 AM | #24 |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
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I'm not sure why you're so intent on arguing this point. By its very nature, there's no universally correct answer. People's different situation, the different bikes they buy, and the different cars they compare them to, all will tilt the costs back and forth depending on the input parameters. By intuition, it seems that a bike should be cheaper. It's smaller, better on gas, and can be cheaper to buy. But in many cases, the cost per mile on a bike can be higher than people would expect, before they sit down to calculate out all of the costs. It's easy to do in retrospect (just pull up quicken and see how much is spent on cars vs. bikes over the past few years, and account for mileage on each. Factor out purchase costs, or keep them in, depending on what you're trying to see). Even then the ultimate answer will differ by individual.
The running costs on my R1200RT and ZX-10R are much, much higher per mile than on any of our cars. Not by a little, but by quite a bit. The running costs on the ninjette are bit lower, thanks to generally cheaper maintenance and somewhat longer tire life.
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Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered) |
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September 2nd, 2009, 11:58 AM | #25 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Eli
Location: San Jose, CA
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2002 Ninja 250 Posts: 159
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hey if there were correct universal answers then I'd be a fu*kin billionaire....Its just my 2 cents and thats all its worth. You gave yours and I gave mine. should i care to read yours is solely up to me and the same to you.
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Bay Area Event Coming Up: June 2, 2012 Mike's Newb Group Ride |
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September 2nd, 2009, 12:12 PM | #26 | |
ninjette.org dude
Name: 1 guess :-)
Location: SF Bay Area
Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much.
Blog Entries: 7
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Quote:
The fact that there are so many questions related to motorcycling and other topics where there are no universal answers is what can make places like this useful. Like some folks here believe green is the fast color, when everyone else clearly knows that green-colored bikes are down on power as a general rule. (Or maybe they're just ridden by slower riders )
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