Occupy Wall Street

[JS73]

Originally Posted by kyrider

Take the time to watch this from "The Daily Show"

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...street-divided

That video was full of and makes Orwell look like the second coming of Nostradamus.

The guy with the iPad was quite expeditious in pointing out his personal property, which is not to be shared. Oh, the irony

[alex.s]

i would like to know how many people who are in the 'occupy' crowd actually voted in the last election

[almost40]

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...adline-passes/

[Apex]

I honestly have no problem for people stating their views. I have no problem with people protesting for what they feel is right. I do, however, have a problem with people getting violent, calling each other names (all because of a difference of opinions, grow up), conducting criminal acts, etc.

I don't call myself the right or the left. I feel there are valid points from each side. Just like food though, too much of anything is bad for you. Too much left wing in your head, you go bad. Same for the right. Just like if I ate nothing but Swiss Cake Rolls for my meals, bad things would happen to my body, I would die at an early age. No one side is perfectly correct, no one side is completely wrong.

There is one word that I feel everyone should live by: balance.

[kyrider]

[shiroganeshinobi]

I've had lots of time for introspection over the past few days. Lots of great material has come out over the movement but I'll have to save it for another time. I can say that almost40 and massacremasses had a right accessment of my dissmissive and condescending tone. I can justtify my raionale all I want but the fact remains that I need to change my tone.

So I've decidely to go to different core issues, bias and propaganda. Here are three videos from Noam Chomsky, each about 8 min long at most. For those who are unaware of who he is, Chomsky shares the same foreign policy views as Ron Paul. I have a number of other videos of him but I think these are a good primer.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Full video of the last one found here

[massacremasses]

Mike thanks for your honesty, I feel like when we get fired up about our opinions and we can come off like jerks even if its unintentional Im guilty of this as well. Im sure we all are. Keep up the good work, and like I said I really do enjoy hearing all sides. Without both sides how can you ever come to an accurate conclusion? You cant.

I hold no hard feelings

[kyrider]

Thanks for the videos but was that an attempt at sarcasm? Especially the last one? So the media tends to lean to the right not the left? Noam Chomsky has been apart of the blame America for all the worlds ills crowd for may years.

Noam is no fan of Obama for sure but really?

You wanna see how the media has influenced people? Watch this video -

Link to original page on YouTube.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Mike thanks for your honesty, I feel like when we get fired up about our opinions and we can come off like jerks even if its unintentional Im guilty of this as well. Im sure we all are. Keep up the good work, and like I said I really do enjoy hearing all sides. Without both sides how can you ever come to an accurate conclusion? You cant.

I hold no hard feelings

Kyrider, we're about to agree on something for the first time ever as I post this video.

Link to original page on YouTube.

I distinctly remember that advertising award for some reason. I kept that in the back of my mind all this time and when I heard Chomsky reference it, I remembered it. The point of the videos is to demonstrate that it is the owners of these institutions that control what the news is reported. Is it what in the public's interest or their interest in what is reported? If you got an hour to burn, the full link goes into a more deeper look. Chomsky recalls a moment when he censored on NPR. Again, the whole is the media free argument pops up again.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Great examples of media control is Dan Rather, Phil Donahue, and Rupert Murdoch. Links picked at random but you can google those yourself. Even the web uses control filters on us. I remember this link was mentioned in the general section at one point i think.

Chomsky has explained that by asserting the news is liberal biased, the issue is shifted, which ignores evidence presented that the media more to the right. Maybe my video orders needs to be redone. Do 3-1-2. And lastly, here is a video of how the USSR sees us made by the CIA presented to Reagan. A bit outdated but some chilling video nonetheless.

Link to original page on YouTube.

So how do we know what is grounded in reality? You try to disapprove what you know through the scientific method. Isnt that weird? You take for granted what you hear from the mass media to be true. To actively seek to disprove what is being said, who does this? If we are hearing distorted facts, why?

*Matrix music plays*

[kyrider]

The OWS movement has found its leader!

Link to original page on YouTube.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Not much OWS action since winter is upon NY and supposedly organizational structure problems. The only OWS action anyone is going to hear is from the west coast. No comments on the Russian video huh? I guess it was too much for people to take it in.

Going back to the bias of corporate media, I'm going to leave this nice gem, "When Did the GOP Lose Touch With Reality?" by David Frum.

For those who don't like reading, he was on NPR for five min interview.

Over the past two decades, conservatism has evolved from a political philosophy into a market segment. An industry has grown up to serve that segment—and its stars have become the true thought leaders of the conservative world. The business model of the conservative media is built on two elements: provoking the audience into a fever of indignation (to keep them watching) and fomenting mistrust of all other information sources (so that they never change the channel). As a commercial proposition, this model has worked brilliantly in the Obama era. As journalism, not so much. As a tool of political mobilization, it backfires, by inciting followers to the point at which they force leaders into confrontations where everybody loses, like the summertime showdown over the debt ceiling.

But the thought leaders on talk radio and Fox do more than shape opinion. Backed by their own wing of the book-publishing industry and supported by think tanks that increasingly function as public-relations agencies, conservatives have built a whole alternative knowledge system, with its own facts, its own history, its own laws of economics. Outside this alternative reality, the United States is a country dominated by a strong Christian religiosity. Within it, Christians are a persecuted minority. Outside the system, President Obama—whatever his policy *errors—is a figure of imposing intellect and dignity. Within the system, he’s a pitiful nothing, unable to speak without a teleprompter, an affirmative-action *phony doomed to inevitable defeat. Outside the system, social scientists worry that the U.S. is hardening into one of the most rigid class societies in the Western world, in which the children of the poor have less chance of escape than in France, Germany, or even England. Inside the system, the U.S. remains (to borrow the words of Senator Marco Rubio) “the only place in the world where it doesn’t matter who your parents were or where you came from.”

Full editorial here

[kyrider]

From another post but it works...

Link to original page on YouTube.

[shiroganeshinobi]

How Republicans are being taught to talk about Occupy Wall Street

Talking points from Barry Luntz, himself.

1. Don't say 'capitalism.'

"I'm trying to get that word removed and we're replacing it with either 'economic freedom' or 'free market,' " Luntz said. "The public . . . still prefers capitalism to socialism, but they think capitalism is immoral. And if we're seen as defenders of quote, Wall Street, end quote, we've got a problem."

2. Don't say that the government 'taxes the rich.' Instead, tell them that the government 'takes from the rich.'

"If you talk about raising taxes on the rich," the public responds favorably, Luntz cautioned. But "if you talk about government taking the money from hardworking Americans, the public says no. Taxing, the public will say yes."

3. Republicans should forget about winning the battle over the 'middle class.' Call them 'hardworking taxpayers.'

"They cannot win if the fight is on hardworking taxpayers. We can say we defend the 'middle class' and the public will say, I'm not sure about that. But defending 'hardworking taxpayers' and Republicans have the advantage."

4. Don't talk about 'jobs.' Talk about 'careers.'

"Everyone in this room talks about 'jobs,'" Luntz said. "Watch this."

He then asked everyone to raise their hand if they want a "job." Few hands went up. Then he asked who wants a "career." Almost every hand was raised.

"So why are we talking about jobs?"

5. Don't say 'government spending.' Call it 'waste.'

"It's not about 'government spending.' It's about 'waste.' That's what makes people angry."

6. Don't ever say you're willing to 'compromise.'

"If you talk about 'compromise,' they'll say you're selling out. Your side doesn't want you to 'compromise.' What you use in that to replace it with is 'cooperation.' It means the same thing. But cooperation means you stick to your principles but still get the job done. Compromise says that you're selling out those principles."

7. The three most important words you can say to an Occupier: 'I get it.'

"First off, here are three words for you all: 'I get it.' . . . 'I get that you're angry. I get that you've seen inequality. I get that you want to fix the system."

Then, he instructed, offer Republican solutions to the problem.

8. Out: 'Entrepreneur.' In: 'Job creator.'

Use the phrases "small business owners" and "job creators" instead of "entrepreneurs" and "innovators."

9. Don't ever ask anyone to 'sacrifice.'

"There isn't an American today in November of 2011 who doesn't think they've already sacrificed. If you tell them you want them to 'sacrifice,' they're going to be be pretty angry at you. You talk about how 'we're all in this together.' We either succeed together or we fail together."

10. Always blame Washington.

Tell them, "You shouldn't be occupying Wall Street, you should be occupying Washington. You should occupy the White House because it's the policies over the past few years that have created this problem."

BONUS:

Don't say 'bonus!'

Luntz advised that if they give their employees an income boost during the holiday season, they should never refer to it as a "bonus."

"If you give out a bonus at a time of financial hardship, you're going to make people angry. It's 'pay for performance.'"

Start watching for the " I get it" people, I've already started to hear it.

[almost40]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/tea-p...reet-protester

[Samer]

Originally Posted by kyrider

From another post but it works...

And a reasonable response...

Link to original page on YouTube.

Adam Carolla's comments are beyond absurd! He thinks the rich are paying too much. That's almost unbelievable.

I have a proposal in light of the genius that is Adam Carolla. He throws out some completely misguided statistic that the top 1% are paying for the bottom 50% and that isn't fair.

Since I'm a liberal, I obviously want the top 1% to pay more. So I propose we have slavery. That's right, let's bring back slavery. Not based on race of course, but based on class. If you are in the bottom 99%, which is EVERYONE in this thread (and I happen to be closer to the top 1% than most, but I'm included).

So we will all work for food and shelter at the mercy of the 1% masters.

You might ask, why in the world would I propose this? Doesn't that go against a liberal view? Well, I would have thought so too, but Adam Carolla showed me the light. I'm so lazy and greedy and entitled that I want his statistic to go all the way to 100%. This way we are all happy. I'm happy that the top 1% will have to pay 100% of all income taxes, because the bottom 99% will earn no money. And Adam Carolla will be happy, because the largest surge in history of personal wealth of the top 1% was clearly not enough for him, and this will ensure the top 1% will live even more as kings.

Please be careful how you use statistics.

By the way: I'm liberal, I very likely earn more money than you, I voted in the last election and I support OWS.

[sombo]

I just kinda thought this little article was a bit ironic. Gotta love it when one of the grievances of the OWS is shown to be true against those trying to shut them down.


Zuccotti Park owners Brookfield Properties owe city $139,000 in back taxes


A little quote from the article:

Brookfield is among 40,000 entities that owe the city an eye-popping $149 million in overdue business taxes dating to 2000, the Finance Department says.

So much for the business's paying their fair share as many of you thought they were huh? And keep in mind, that this is JUST in NYC, wonder how many more unpaid business taxes we can find around the country.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Fantastic article on how Democrats are trying to co opt the movement.

I leave you with a old but relevant documentary. The first video is the trailer and the next one is part 1/8 which you can find the whole series has been uploaded so click on the right for the next parts in youtube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[almost40]

Traitor or poser??
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...psWB60rSMhcEgP

[shiroganeshinobi]

Another co opt article by democrats on Salon , they seem to be on fire lately.

I dont like watching mass corporate media for my news but a friend linked this video which I had to find a youtube version for accessibility. I have seen some articles which seem to talk about how occupy is losing steam and this is the next evolution or phase in the movement.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Samer]

Originally Posted by almost40

Traitor or poser??
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...psWB60rSMhcEgP

Good for her. Guess what, of all the OWS people on the street who happen to be unemployed, I hope they all find a job too. In fact, they are demanding jobs!

OWS doesn't claim literally every Wall Street executive is corrupt. Just too big a percentage of them. Or more importantly, too many of the ones on top have too much control over our government. There's nothing wrong with being an analyst doing what Wall Street is actually supposed to be doing.

[sombo]

[kyrider]

The OWS crowd does not want a job they want a hand out.

[kyrider]

Just coming back from basically a few third world countries and not afraid to ask them questions. I took the opportunity to ask a few natives in Jamaica and Mexico if they felt entitled to any thing and they both said( mind you the three I talked to were in their 40's or 50's and they all said they just wanted the chance to make money on their own. They complained about taxation and gov intrusion. One had tried to come to the US but had failed but said the US is a place where dreams do come true. In Mexico you have dreams but you always know those dreams have limitations. In the US dreams have no limitations.

My Gawd does that makes me thankful I am an American!!!!

[sombo]

Ok, I had rebuttal to kyrider's b/s, but since he refuses to see anything other then the b/s rolling out of the extreme right, there is no point. Have a nice life over in lahlah land until reality hits you man. I'm done listening to your clueless b/s.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by sombo

Ok, I had rebuttal to kyrider's b/s, but since he refuses to see anything other then the b/s rolling out of the extreme right, there is no point. Have a nice life over in lahlah land until reality hits you man. I'm done listening to your clueless b/s.

Oh the Irony from one who only sees his side of the story.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by almost40

Oh the Irony from one who only sees his side of the story.

Hi pot, you trying to call kettle out?

I have looked at his and your side of things. I've seen a few (very few) valid points, and have attempted to show you where your information was wrong or misleading. Yet you continue to only see what the right tells you is the truth rather than what is the truth. I have looked at your and his arguments, then did my own independent research utilizing non-biased information and used that to argue. Yet no matter what the source, if it's not right wing extreme, neither of you will accept it. I am just done listening to b/s from people that think that all these people want is handouts. If that's what you think then I feel sorry for your own stupidity as well. Both of you have used misleading information, lies, and tried to use dirty tactics (using slander and digging up dirt on individual occupiers pasts to try and demonize the whole movement) and right wing extremists opinions as facts to argue your point. Unlike you two, those of us who support the meaning of the OWS have our eyes and minds open. In the coming year your eyes will be opened when the lies of the right wing can no longer hide the b/s of their ways.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by almost40

Oh the Irony from one who only sees his side of the story.

[shiroganeshinobi]

I wanted to get some some of the personal perspetives of the of the people who go to Occupy protests. They're interesting to read because mass corporate media has done a poor job covering who the people are because it's not in their owners' interest.

My Occupy LA Arrest, by Patrick Meighan

A man out of work finds community at Occupy Wall Street

Fantastic OP/ED on Bloomberg surprisingly

Trouble is, sometimes the things that we know to be true are dead wrong. For the larger part of human history, for example, people were sure that the sun circles the Earth and that we are at the center of the universe. It doesn’t, and we aren’t. The conventional wisdom that the rich and businesses are our nation’s “job creators” is every bit as false.

...

Even so, I’ve never been a “job creator.” I can start a business based on a great idea, and initially hire dozens or hundreds of people. But if no one can afford to buy what I have to sell, my business will soon fail and all those jobs will evaporate.

That’s why I can say with confidence that rich people don’t create jobs, nor do businesses, large or small. What does lead to more employment is the feedback loop between customers and businesses. And only consumers can set in motion a virtuous cycle that allows companies to survive and thrive and business owners to hire. An ordinary middle-class consumer is far more of a job creator than I ever have been or ever will be.

....

It is unquestionably true that without entrepreneurs and investors, you can’t have a dynamic and growing capitalist economy. But it’s equally true that without consumers, you can’t have entrepreneurs and investors. And the more we have happy customers with lots of disposable income, the better our businesses will do.

Full editorial here.

[almost40]

Ok, I had rebuttal to sombos b/s, but since he refuses to see anything other then the b/s rolling out of the extreme left, there is no point. Have a nice life over in lahlah land until reality hits you man. I'm done listening to your clueless b/s.

Now you can call me pot.
LOL

[sombo]

LOL. You were the pot before I was ever the kettle. I don't listen to extreme left, I listen to experts who aren't in it for the politics. But since they aren't extreme right you think they are extreme left. Not my fault you are another that refuses to open his eyes and see the truth. I'm not living in lalaland where I think the system is working as it should and those protesting it are just asking or handouts or that it can keep going with the business as usual attitude. I also understand the true meanings of such things as socialism, liberalism, and can see how the things you and your right wing buddies keep labeling as such have nothing to do with those ideals.

And as I said, unlike you (who has admitted to not looking at people's info and choosing who you wish to argue with based on _______ fill in the blank b/s) I do actually look into your side of things. Then I take that info and research it through independent non-political resources to see what is and isn't correct. I tend to find more of your info being incorrect than correct, but you won't see that cause your info comes from the all mighty right that don't give a rats ass about you or me as long as their wealthy buddies are happy.

Plus I said I'm sick of listening to people who think they know what the OWS wants when they have no freaking clue other than the opinions of the right wing. As long as you guys refuse to even listen to their grievances and just automatically assume that what Faux news and your other right wing buddies tells you it's about, then you're the ones living in a lalaland that is going to come crashing down just as hard if not harder than it did in the past. As long as we continue on with the "business as usual" policy your side wants we are doomed to fail over and over again. Inequality in the public results in a shutdown of the economy. The longer it takes for your side to see this the longer we're going to suffer.

Peace out suckers. I'm gonna go watch the demise of the current economy and it's domination over the public.

[massacremasses]

Ron Paul. nuff said.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by sombo

Peace out suckers. I'm gonna go watch the demise of the current economy and it's domination over the public.

Dude, you should put Almost40 on your ignore list. I did it a long time ago when I realized that he (or she?) only repeats what gets play on fringe right radio and TV. The limited amount and depth of info from those sources pretty much guarantees repeat messages within a day, and seeing the same few meme-bites over and over gets remarkably unexciting rather quickly.

[Samer]

Originally Posted by kyrider

The OWS crowd does not want a job they want a hand out.

Thank you for speaking on my behalf. But your services are no longer needed.

I looked into your statement and remembered that I have a job and I support OWS. Also, I seemed to notice that one of the major demands of OWS protesters is jobs.

You can believe what you want. When you're ready, reality will be waiting

[Samer]

Originally Posted by almost40

Oh the Irony from one who only sees his side of the story.

I see both sides of the story. The problem is that your side of the story is not consistent with reality. Kind of an inconvenient truth of sorts.

Please answer this simple question: Why is it that the current unemployment rate in the US is very high, yet the rich, I mean 'job creators', are wealthier today than they have ever been in the history of the US?

Please, no smart remarks. I'm dead serious to know how you 'rationalize' these two simple, verifiable, indisputable facts that don't seem to follow your ideology.

Thanks in advance.

[almost40]

At what point is the tax rate on the rich high enough to satisfy you?
How does the confiscation of wealth from others make your life better?
Do you really trust the various government agencys to spend the confiscated wealth in a sane matter?

Most importantly

Can we define a dollar amount that makes one wealthy?? How much in yearly income qualifys you as the rich?

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Dude, you should put Almost40 on your ignore list. I did it a long time ago when I realized that he (or she?) only repeats what gets play on fringe right radio and TV. The limited amount and depth of info from those sources pretty much guarantees repeat messages within a day, and seeing the same few meme-bites over and over gets remarkably unexciting rather quickly.

I will continue to strive to fight that propaganda. The middle class should be united but conservatism has become perverse over the past 50 years. We've essentially regressed back to the glided age but it hasn't been addressed much because it threatens those in or with power. The mass media doesn't report the real OWS, because they would shoot themselves in the face. They're so afraid of it growing so they marginalize or fault it as much as possible. It's a long battle but I hope people are humble enough to rationalize all or opposite views.


Bonus google talk video about corruption in congress, nonpartisan.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[SephiaSputnik]

There's so many videos and articles that you guys have posted that its difficult to just jump right in...

What I did want to say is that I did happen to listen to a bit of the Adam Carrolla stuff, I had to shut it off because it became a bit too difficult to really absorb when someone just starts yelling and cussing. What I found interesting was his idea of that the reason we have these OWS movements is that this is the age of entitlement and people don't want to accept their sense of failure.

I do think he has a point, but to a certain degree. Bear with me a for a bit, this is gonna be long-winded but I do have a point that relates to the whole OWS that I believe is very pertinent to the conversation.

I teach music, and in my circle of family and friends... most of them are teachers as well. Lately in our discussions, this topic of "No Child Left Behind" comes up frequently... and the educational system is ruining our children's notion of work, what is fair and not fair, many issues that are affecting not only the parents but the kids who are coming up in college and the result is now the people we see on tv as OWS.

Here is what I see nowadays in the schools. Children are horribly overburdened with too much homework and school work that is above what they are able to comprehend. When I was in school, Algebra and Geometry were lower grade high school subjects(9th grade), now they introduce them to the 4th graders and give them 2 hours of homework (and this is one grade subject).

The kids become heavily reliant on their parents to help them finish their school work, on top of that they are so busy studying they have no time to allow their brains to rest and they don't absorb half of this information that is being shoved down their throats day in day out. Teachers pander to the students too because if they have kids with bad scores or bad grades... The teachers get fired!

The result of this is that kids grow up now with no ability for creative thinking or problem solving on their own because for all their lives they've been reliant on their parents or they need teachers to bail them out. They can't figure out basic things on their own unless they are explicitly told exactly what needs to be done. And yet these same kids are taught to always expect to have the best grades, be the best at everything, and get a trophy at the end of the day.

The parents are affected too because they've been told that if their kids get those A+ all the time that their kid's wildest dreams will come true. So they don't fight the system that overburdens them and their kids, they just continue doing the work for their children so that they can get the A++ on the next test.

How does this relate to OWS: I think there are genuine people out there who have lost jobs and their homes because of Wall Street shinanigans and they are pissed off. Or their retirement which they've worked YEARS building is suddenly gone. These people have a right to be pissed off and I have no reason to tell them they can't protest and I fully encourage it.

I think moreso though... that a lot of these people are young adults who can't get full time jobs and can't figure out how to get a job because no one will hold their hand anymore... OR they are the parents of these kids who have also been brainwashed into working so hard for their kids and now they're totally depleted.

I do believe these people need a direction and someone to help them become more independent than relying on government to help them out. I myself had no opportunities for any sort of conventional job getting out of college, so I MADE myself a job. I became my own boss. I don't think this next generation has any idea that if they can't find work, they need to make up their own work and that comes from the inability for ingenuity, of having mom n dad help them too much growing up.

Either way around, they're pissed at Wall Street and its not going to stop.

The only way they will stop is when they find a direction, someone to harness this energy and do something helpful with it.

We can argue all day long back n forth whether these people deserve to be there or not but it doesn't do anything but take you in circles. To sit there with pictures saying "suck it up and find a job" doesn't help anyone. These people are there, they have a legitimate concern.

Wouldn't it be much more Republican to take the stance of "let's help these people start their own jobs, their own businesses" than to have the government shut them down? I'm Liberal but even I don't think these people should get a handout, let's empower them to do good and stop using tax payer money for the cleanup of their protests. Instead of being negative and telling them to shut up, help them find a direction to go.

Sorry for the essay but that's my 2 cents.

[kyrider]

Originally Posted by SephiaSputnik

There's so many videos and articles that you guys have posted that its difficult to just jump right in...

What I did want to say is that I did happen to listen to a bit of the Adam Carrolla stuff, I had to shut it off because it became a bit too difficult to really absorb when someone just starts yelling and cussing. What I found interesting was his idea of that the reason we have these OWS movements is that this is the age of entitlement and people don't want to accept their sense of failure.

I do think he has a point, but to a certain degree. Bear with me a for a bit, this is gonna be long-winded but I do have a point that relates to the whole OWS that I believe is very pertinent to the conversation.

I teach music, and in my circle of family and friends... most of them are teachers as well. Lately in our discussions, this topic of "No Child Left Behind" comes up frequently... and the educational system is ruining our children's notion of work, what is fair and not fair, many issues that are affecting not only the parents but the kids who are coming up in college and the result is now the people we see on tv as OWS.

Here is what I see nowadays in the schools. Children are horribly overburdened with too much homework and school work that is above what they are able to comprehend. When I was in school, Algebra and Geometry were lower grade high school subjects(9th grade), now they introduce them to the 4th graders and give them 2 hours of homework (and this is one grade subject).

The kids become heavily reliant on their parents to help them finish their school work, on top of that they are so busy studying they have no time to allow their brains to rest and they don't absorb half of this information that is being shoved down their throats day in day out. Teachers pander to the students too because if they have kids with bad scores or bad grades... The teachers get fired!

The result of this is that kids grow up now with no ability for creative thinking or problem solving on their own because for all their lives they've been reliant on their parents or they need teachers to bail them out. They can't figure out basic things on their own unless they are explicitly told exactly what needs to be done. And yet these same kids are taught to always expect to have the best grades, be the best at everything, and get a trophy at the end of the day.

The parents are affected too because they've been told that if their kids get those A+ all the time that their kid's wildest dreams will come true. So they don't fight the system that overburdens them and their kids, they just continue doing the work for their children so that they can get the A++ on the next test.

How does this relate to OWS: I think there are genuine people out there who have lost jobs and their homes because of Wall Street shinanigans and they are pissed off. Or their retirement which they've worked YEARS building is suddenly gone. These people have a right to be pissed off and I have no reason to tell them they can't protest and I fully encourage it.

I think moreso though... that a lot of these people are young adults who can't get full time jobs and can't figure out how to get a job because no one will hold their hand anymore... OR they are the parents of these kids who have also been brainwashed into working so hard for their kids and now they're totally depleted.

I do believe these people need a direction and someone to help them become more independent than relying on government to help them out. I myself had no opportunities for any sort of conventional job getting out of college, so I MADE myself a job. I became my own boss. I don't think this next generation has any idea that if they can't find work, they need to make up their own work and that comes from the inability for ingenuity, of having mom n dad help them too much growing up.

Either way around, they're pissed at Wall Street and its not going to stop.

The only way they will stop is when they find a direction, someone to harness this energy and do something helpful with it.

We can argue all day long back n forth whether these people deserve to be there or not but it doesn't do anything but take you in circles. To sit there with pictures saying "suck it up and find a job" doesn't help anyone. These people are there, they have a legitimate concern.

Wouldn't it be much more Republican to take the stance of "let's help these people start their own jobs, their own businesses" than to have the government shut them down? I'm Liberal but even I don't think these people should get a handout, let's empower them to do good and stop using tax payer money for the cleanup of their protests. Instead of being negative and telling them to shut up, help them find a direction to go.

Sorry for the essay but that's my 2 cents.

Very valid point!

[Samer]

Originally Posted by almost40

At what point is the tax rate on the rich high enough to satisfy you?
How does the confiscation of wealth from others make your life better?
Do you really trust the various government agencys to spend the confiscated wealth in a sane matter?

Most importantly

Can we define a dollar amount that makes one wealthy?? How much in yearly income qualifys you as the rich?

I see you did not answer my question. I guess you cannot rationalize an answer. Please make an attempt to think about it and provide an answer.

Even though you didn't answer my question, I'll answer yours.

Taking more of wealthy peoples money does not directly help me at all. I'm not supporting OWS for me. I'm supporting it for fairness and for the middle class.

Let me answer your other question with a specific Democratic proposal that was rejected by the Republicans very recently. The proposal was to pay for a one year extension of the payroll tax cut by adding a 3% surcharge on personal income above one million dollars. That is, if your adjusted gross income was 1000,001 dollars. Your income tax would increase by $.03

I know some may think it is class warfare but I think that is what the economy needs now. When working middle class people get a tax break, they spend that money and it actually helps the economy in many cases. By the way, I earn too much to get the payroll tax cut, but again, this is not about me.

Please answer my question from my previous post.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by Samer

The proposal was to pay for a one year extension of the payroll tax cut by adding a 3% surcharge on personal income above one million dollars. That is, if your adjusted gross income was 1000,001 dollars. Your income tax would increase by $.03

What congresional bill are we talking about??

HR ??????