DIY Shimming the carb needles.

[kkim]

Joe, thanks for the info.

So, how did your bike turn out?

[headshrink]

+1 Yup, I've bought from desmoparts before.... and will do again.

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by kkim

Joe, thanks for the info.

So, how did your bike turn out?

Well Kelly. Considering she's still in pieces in the garage and not on the road...not good.
Long story short. I do my spring cleaning in pieces, indoors. I still have to do chain maint and she isnt back together yet. Sat I decided to order a 15t and this week Im going on Vaca to FL. So things are once again delayed.
I've been so busy being a union steward in negotiations, moving my gf from buffalo to Corning, working nights, and developing a homebrew muffler that I have only had the chance to enjoy one short ride so far this year

If you were asking about all the stainless...beautiful. I did this last year. I first eyed the bike up for everything I wanted replaced an made a list. Then I searched online microfiche for sizes. "Cheapcycleparts"
Then placed my order.
Feels good not having to worry about nuts and bolts becoming eyesores.
It was like buying diamonds for my girlfriend.

Originally Posted by headshrink

+1 Yup, I've bought from desmoparts before.... and will do again.

I will to. Again...Great service.

[kkim]

http://www.ninjette.org/wiki/Category:Final_Drive

[Buffalony]

Not to continue off topic but there was only an indirect answer to the question in that link Kelly. A 15t will be fine with the stock chain on green bikes.

[sharkie308]

Just shimmed the carbs today and snorkeled it. I personally don't notice a difference as I'm used to my Buell and really don't ride the 250. But, Cindy seems to be starting from stops a little easier so as far as I"m concerned it did it's job. Overall not too bad once I bad screw undone. I swapped all the carb cover screws out to the Socket cap screws that were 4mm x 16mm. I also went with the Radio Shack #4 washers. They seem pretty thin. I might need a 4th in there.

On a side note I initially was going to just remove the carbs and was following the DIY jet kit thread in how to remove them. I had issues when it came to moving the airbox back. I removed the bolts and everything as listed but the thing wouldn't budge at all. I dunno if I missed something but I followed the directions to a T.

[peter330]

could someone please tell me where I would add some seamfoam in the carb along the process when I do this mod? I figure I might as well do it while im at it, forgive my stupidity I've never touched the carbs before

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by sharkie308

On a side note I initially was going to just remove the carbs and was following the DIY jet kit thread in how to remove them. I had issues when it came to moving the airbox back. I removed the bolts and everything as listed but the thing wouldn't budge at all. I dunno if I missed something but I followed the directions to a T.

You may have missed the bolt on the bottom... I did. It's hard to see. It's a black one hidden under the left side of the box near the front. Looks exactly like the one on the upper right rear of the box.

You need to remove the left fairing bracket to see it.

[GeneJunkie]

Originally Posted by adouglas

You may have missed the bolt on the bottom... I did. It's hard to see. It's a black one hidden under the left side of the box near the front. Looks exactly like the one on the upper right rear of the box.

You need to remove the left fairing bracket to see it.

Nope got that one. It was a pain to get back in too :/ Meh doesn't really matter. I got the job done without having to take the carbs out.

[sixstring]

Hi guys, just did this mod and removed the snorkle. Real happy with the results... HOWEVER when I was putting the carb covers back on, I stripped one of the screws while tightening. The untighten direction is relatively unstripped.

Is anyone aware of some hex screws that may work for these carbs? I'm not a huge fan of the philips head. If there are no replacements, I'm going to order like 10 of these screws from kawasaki.... I can see myself stripping 10 of these

BTW if anyone is trying to get the screws out while the carbs are still on the bike, this tool makes life MUCH easier. Its a small ratchet set from Husky. Got it at my local home depot for 15 bucks. Very well made. Handy for all sorts of small-space work.

[Momaru]

Originally Posted by sixstring

Hi guys, just did this mod and removed the snorkle. Real happy with the results... HOWEVER when I was putting the carb covers back on, I stripped one of the screws while tightening. The untighten direction is relatively unstripped.

Is anyone aware of some hex screws that may work for these carbs? I'm not a huge fan of the philips head. If there are no replacements, I'm going to order like 10 of these screws from kawasaki.... I can see myself stripping 10 of these

Dunno if you saw it, but I posted the measurements/thread sizes for the screws earlier in the thread, just get metric hex-head instead of phillips? I know my hardware store (TrueValue) has both kinds, but I'm ok with the phillips heads.

Just take care with what size you get, I found out the hard way:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=39321

Thanks for the link/pic of an alternative to the MOS for adjusting carbs on the bike. Good to see options out there, but love my MOS

[kandyBlue]

I'm halfway done with this mod. Bike is naked, just need to get a Milwaukee Offset Screwdriver so screws can come off. Planning to do 3 washers under each needle, I have a mgp slip-on and removed snorkel...will update soon!

[kandyBlue]

Done! Shimmed with 3 #4 washers under each needle. No more bogging/stalling off the start, seems a bit more responsive all the way to redline, happy customer!

[kkim]

Originally Posted by kandyBlue

Done! Shimmed with 3 #4 washers under each needle. No more bogging/stalling off the start, seems a bit more responsive all the way to redline, happy customer!

enjoy!

[keeyu]

Do I need to tune the bike after adding the washers?

[Momaru]

If by 'tune' you mean perhaps adjust the idle mix and check the carb synch, I'd say yes.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Momaru

If by 'tune' you mean perhaps adjust the idle mix and check the carb synch, I'd say yes.

the beauty/appeal of shimming is that you may be able to get away w/o touching the mixture screws, but I'd recommend at least checking/adjusting the sync when you can.

It all depends on how anal you are about your bike and how much your bike is off from the factory that would determine how well it runs after the shimming.

[keeyu]

Thanks. I'll try to add some washers without adjusting. I got about 20 miles on the bike.

[kkim]

whoa... do you have problems with the bike? I would suggest putting on a few more miles first, if for no other reason, to build a baseline to see where the bike is before you start tearing into it. Learn the pluses and minuses of the bike, then attend to what's deficient from your point of view. Don't just shim the needles because some internet hacks say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

get out, ride the bike and enjoy it.

[keeyu]

I installed a full exhaust, and the bike pulls very hard. I found myself shifting very early or the bike won't speed up. I am also considering removing the snorkel to compensate for the additional power. In nyc, we have crazy drivers. I almost got ran off the road by an irate driver because I wasn't tailgating the car infront of me or going in an optimal "speed". After taking the MSF class, I am more cautious when riding and counting the 4 to 10 second rule of the car infront of me. Since I don't have the protection of a car, I’ll try to hold my anger in.

[kkim]

if you have a full exhaust already, remove the snorkel while adding 3 washers to each needle. see how that works.

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by sixstring

Is anyone aware of some hex screws that may work for these carbs? I'm not a huge fan of the philips head.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47544

[miks]

Finally decided to do this. 2 washers, desnorkled, slip-on. Loving it!

[crankinaway]

Could someone explain to me why the needles are different lengths from the factory? What purpose does it serve and are the benenfits to going to the same length needles like in aftermarket jet kits, but not jetting?

[g21-30]

The needles are NOT different lengths. Check out the previous page of this thread for a comparison picture of OEM needles and Factory Pro ones.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by g21-30

The needles are NOT different lengths. Check out the previous page of this thread for a comparison picture of OEM needles and Factory Pro ones.

They (OEM needles) LOOK the same to me too, but they have different part numbers, and I was told there was some difference. I don't know why else the mixture screws wouldn't be set the same from the factory.... It's a mystery to me.

[g21-30]

Originally Posted by headshrink

They (OEM needles) LOOK the same to me too, but they have different part numbers, and I was told there was some difference. I don't know why else the mixture screws wouldn't be set the same from the factory.... It's a mystery to me.

Yes, they are different part numbers and are slightly different, but they are the same LENGTH. My comment was in response to the question "Could someone explain to me why the needles are different lengths from the factory?"

[crankinaway]

Gotcha, thanx guys.

[Kitdog]

I have been meaning to post this but didn't get around to it. When I went to shim my needles I stripped one of the screws on the carb covers (I swear they are made of lead) so rather than taking out the carbs to remove the now useless screw I sat down and thought about how I could get it out. I have a multi-speed dremel tool and metal cutting wheels so I got that out and took one of the wheels which was WAY to big to be useful so I found a large chunk of concrete and wore it down to about the right size. Then I removed the rubber tube on the top between the two carbs and stuffed a piece of cotton in it (wanted to be sure no lint or metal shavings got in their) and set my dremel down to the lowest speed and CAREFULLY (its tight in there) cut the offending screw head deep enough that I could get a good bite in it with a flat head screwdriver (about 3/4 of the depth of the head.) and removed it. then just to be safe did the other screws. there was 1 I could not get at with the dremel so I took a hack saw blade cut it down to a small size and used it to cut the last screw by hand. Just be CAREFULL it doesn't take much to cut into the soft metal of these screws and you don't want to cut anything else in this tight space, just think of yourself as a dentist and don't want to touch anything else with the tool. but it worked for me. I replaced the screws with new Hex ones from home depot.

[Alex]

/merged with shimming DIY

[setasai]

Originally Posted by sixstring

BTW if anyone is trying to get the screws out while the carbs are still on the bike, this tool makes life MUCH easier. Its a small ratchet set from Husky. Got it at my local home depot for 15 bucks. Very well made. Handy for all sorts of small-space work.

I concur. Use the ratchet set. Get the fit perfect... push down on the pivot point nicely and slowly knudge on the arm till you feel it give way... Mine came out nicely and did not strip AT ALL because of this set. Dont fight the angle of the handle though. Some screws fit better slanted in different ways...

-2009 Ninja 250R Stock Exhaust
-Snorkel Removed
-2 (3mm) washers from OSH in a package labeled M3

Incredible... Just incredible. I just hope it wont drop my mpg below a typical sedan... that would be sad. lol.


P.S. Why is it called shimming? lol At first glance I pictured everybody here with the needle in one hand and a knife or file on the other slicing the needle thinner. lol

[kkim]

Originally Posted by setasai

P.S.Why is it called shimming? lol At first glance I pictured everybody here with the needle in one hand and a knife or file on the other slicing the needle thinner. lol

cause you're using the washers as "shims" to raise the needle. if you used a knife/file to slice the needle thinner, it would be called whittling.

[want1sobad]

add me to the list - shimmed mine this weekend with the help of dubojr (thanks JD!)

2 washers, desnorkeled, stock exhuast.

everything is smoother now - no choke needed to start, no bogging when starting from a stop, no "hiccup" when letting off the throttle at speed, downshifts are much smoother, pulls hard all the way to redline.

i am very happy - will be synching carbs and adjusting idle mixture screws in the future.

FYI - should anyone wish to replace the crap JIS screws with some allens, www.desmoparts.com has the right size (4x16mm) as well as lock washers and flat washers (as the stock washers are not removable)

wish list:

AREA P, AREA P, AREA P, AREA P!!!

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by want1sobad

add me to the list - shimmed mine this weekend with the help of dubojr1 (thanks JD!)

Yep, yep! God bless the man that invented the Dremel magic wand to get in those tight spaces to regrind those screw-heads.

[Kitdog]

Yea thats what I used and a hack saw that I broke the blade down smaller to get to the really tight space one

[scotty]

Great d.i.y mod! I just did it and it is like a whole differnt bike. Now to put all the body back on..... Blah....

[g21-30]

For those of you contemplating this mod, please read this thread first:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49003

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by g21-30

For those of you contemplating this mod, please read this thread first:

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49003

Yes, good form. After ripping into mine almost 20X, I finally stripped a screw this last time. Thankfully I have an old carb from ebay to cannibalize for parts. These bits/drivers will not bring buyers remorse, that is for sure. Actually, that will by my official understatement of the day.

[TenaciousD]

I just got done shimming my needles. My bike is brand new and would really bog down and fall on its face when you gave it some throttle from idle. Unless I let it warm up for like 10 minutes it would often completely stall as soon as I gave it a little throttle.

The attached photo shows the washers I used. I put 3 on each needle. I have a big washer assortment box I got at Harbor Freight a few years ago and it is chock full of these washers. The ID is 3mm and the OD is 6mm. Sorry I didn't get a picture of the washers on the needle but the fit is "just right".

The result is like night and day. The engine revs like it should and there's no bog or hesitation when I give it throttle from idle. After I did this, it idled a little high but about a 1/4 turn on the idle adjuster put it right.

If your Ninjette is boggy down low, do spend a couple hours doing this. It's how the bike should have run from the factory in the first place.

[kkim]

Kevin,

Did you remove the snorkel, too?