September 6th, 2011, 12:00 PM | #41 | |
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I can't believe it. Linus actually agrees with me for once. The article said it dropped four feet. It looked more like four inches to me. Is it known for a fact that this was a ninjette? I didn't see anything in the articles about that. Just guessing, but it looks like he lowsided trying to avoid her and the old bag ran him over instead of stopping. IMHO, everyone, not just old f@rts, should have to pass a reflex and vision test every 10 years. Vision testing to make sure they can see bikers. Reflex testing to make sure they stop once they hit one.
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September 6th, 2011, 12:02 PM | #42 |
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The chocks were in place. Poor rider, RIP.
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September 6th, 2011, 12:05 PM | #43 | |||
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No, I came up with that opinion several days ago. It was just a coincidence
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And a billion other tests, so only those responsible enough to drive can. Screw the rest, it's not worth the risk to my life for their convenience. |
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September 6th, 2011, 12:16 PM | #44 | |
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Personally I think voting should be a privilege too and only those that know what they are actually voting for should be allowed to do so.
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September 6th, 2011, 01:19 PM | #45 |
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Yup, it was a red ninjette. Looked like the '08/'10 red rather than the '09, but it's hard to be sure. One of the pics that used to be linked to that article showed it very clearly.
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September 6th, 2011, 01:46 PM | #46 |
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Pause my video at 0:47. Clearly an 08/09 250. Look at the exhaust.
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September 6th, 2011, 01:46 PM | #47 |
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I watched this video, then I noticed something....anyone else see this.
This from the video poster-"...@5oul3ater i see every thing the lady was on the wrong side of the road and turning the man realize an brake up the bike fling him right under the car the bike bounce right in to the car 2 sec second after and the car drag him right round ... Wow. |
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September 6th, 2011, 03:39 PM | #48 | |
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Its pretty hard to understand what they guy was saying, bit it sounds like she cut into the opposing lane to make a turn. It sends chills down my spine as about a week or two ago a guy did the same thing to me. I was lucky in that he saw me at the last minute and I got around him in the bicycle lane. Sheesh, people like that should be ground up and fed to the dogs.
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September 6th, 2011, 04:04 PM | #49 |
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Watching the video - the car didn't roll forward, it shifted sideways. Just going by the video and nothing else, I have to side with the police saying that the motorcyclist died from injuries sustained during the accident, and not as a result of the car being dropped. It was a mistake, but I think that guy was done for before the car fell.
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September 6th, 2011, 04:10 PM | #50 | |
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Every Emergency responder knows when that car came down, that was it. Check out their reactions. The first EMT throws the spine board down in disgust. (*note* no need for a spine board or cervical collar for a dead man. Victim was still alive before the drop) Rider died on the scene. Hospital has to officially call it though. Notice the ambulance did not move right away. The hospital was about 5-6 minutes down the road. |
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September 6th, 2011, 04:57 PM | #51 |
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The important thing to remember is that the fire guys didn't cause the accident the fat old hag did.
They tried to save the guy and unfortunately failed. Before thy got there, there were dozens of people just standing around just gawking. They could have jacked up the car themselves or with that many people, simply lifted it off him. If the fire guys are guilty of anything, then so are the gawkers.
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September 6th, 2011, 05:40 PM | #52 | |
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September 7th, 2011, 05:17 AM | #53 |
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I can't speak for other states, but in FL we have a Good Samaritan law that makes people who help in an emergency immune from any and all lawsuits. I'm not sure if it applies to EMS workers.
If they don't have such a law in NY, then it might have saved this kid???
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September 7th, 2011, 08:07 AM | #54 |
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In this case, I wouldn't have done anything either. Not because I wouldn't want to help, but how would you propose to lift the car off him without some special gear? I don't drive around with 2 floor jacks in my car and I'm guessing none of those people do either. In this case, you can't just lift the rear end up and have someone yank the rider out. Who would want to take the risk of further injuring the guy? We're taught to not touch anyone who's been in an accident because you could make things worse for the victim. I wouldn't put blame on the bystanders for not trying to help. The only thing I see that was crappy is how many people whipped out cameras to video tape the scene. I think serious moments like this should be treated with a little bit of dignity instead of a show.
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September 7th, 2011, 09:07 AM | #55 |
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Good Samaritan laws don't pertain to EMS workers, and in some states (such as Texas) even if I'm off duty it doesn't protect me.
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September 7th, 2011, 06:13 PM | #56 | |
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If that didn't work, lift one side of the car (the side with his head) and throw a chock under it. You could use the fat hag that ran him over as a chock if you couldn't find anything better. When you have a crushing situation like this, its imperative to remove the weight off the victim ASAP. The weight makes it next to impossible to breathe. So yes, if the gawkers had acted expediently, the kid might have survived.
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September 7th, 2011, 07:02 PM | #57 |
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I really don't like the reporting on this.
That wasn't even remotely 4' It was probably not going to save him anyway. Returning for an item didn't cost him his life, the failure to yield from the other driver did. The FDNY didn't cost him his life, the failure to yield from the other driver did. "Motorcyclist dies after rescue workers drop car on him?" How about "Motorcyclist dies after being hit by a car." It can still mention the worker's attempts to extract him going badly, but think about how the guy got where he was and then try to imagine what was worse. It doesn't look like the suspension compressed much at all, which means he may have simply back where he started, and I HIGHLY doubt that the drop was the deciding factor in his death. There's some heresay about him being responsive before but not after, but they only said that it was a moan or two and they may have stopped at that point regardless. Last futzed with by CZroe; September 8th, 2011 at 05:31 AM. |
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September 7th, 2011, 08:07 PM | #58 | |
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If this was a simple crushing event, where he was wedged/pinned slightly (like something fell on him) then yes it potentially could have saved his life. However this victim was run over by the front of the car, dragged and then crushed. It makes this scenario a little more difficult to judge. The internal injuries alone reduces his prognosis. Without Advance Life Support on hand immediately after the removal of the weight, the victim could have died anyway from broken bones being flexed back into and puncturing vital organs. Removing weight off a victim in this situation needs intervention and stabilization by EMS (assessment, airway adjuncts, C-collar, BP monitoring, oxygen administration). His window for survival was short. From what I can tell from the video, it appears to be evidence of blood or some type of fluid near the victims head and rear tire and the helmet is twisted on his head. (victim is on his stomach and his helmet is almost pointing up). If it was blood, that is a sign of massive internal injuries. The upside if they did manage to lift the car and stabilize it prior to EMS arrival is, it would have saved EMS 11 minutes. More than enough time to get him to the ER. |
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September 8th, 2011, 04:09 AM | #59 | |
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In many cases its best just to leave them there and wait, but not when there is an imminent threat to life. In this case, there would have been a serious concern for his ability to breathe. His body was lifting the car slightly so we know his body was bearing the weight of it. Also, the car on top of him would make it impossible to perform CPR or any other emergency measure. In any emergency, remember your ABC's: A-Airway B-Breathing C-Circulation Nothing else matters until those things are stable. His airway was probably compromised by the twisting of his neck. His breathing was similarly compromised by that and the weight of the vehicle. His circulation may have been similarly compromised by internal bleeding. But after saying all that, lets not lose sight of the fact that neither the gawkers nor the firemen caused the accident - it was an old hag that shouldn't have been driving in the first place.
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September 8th, 2011, 05:13 AM | #60 |
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Makes me rethink motorcycling.
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September 8th, 2011, 05:51 AM | #61 |
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jesus...FDNY really ****ed up this time...NEVER EVER should you be using spreaders to get a car off the ground, they don't have a wide enough base to stay stable, as u saw...this really pisses me off, they are a rescue company and have access to a crap ton cribbing (4x4s) and airbags (rubber squares that get filled with air that are meant to be used for this purpose) i see a lawsuit in the near future...
I swear...the FDNY does some stupid ****...and this is one of them. |
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September 8th, 2011, 06:39 AM | #62 |
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It's actually much more complicated than that, and it varies from state to state. If you aren't medically trained, most of the time being a good samaritan simply means calling 911. If you perform first aid incorrectly, or outside the scope of your training and mess up, chances are you will be held liable. It's a good idea for everyone to familiarize themselves with the concepts of imminent peril, consent & implied consent.
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September 8th, 2011, 09:46 AM | #63 |
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From the looks of the second video it looks like the rushed to lift the car a little too much without properly setting it up. I've seen those airbags inflate and they don't really take that much time. I think in this case they made a bad judgment call and made a bad situation worse by using the wrong tool and moving too quickly. But that's just my opinion.
I also agree that the old lady is at fault and should get more of a punishment then she did. But this is what plagues the US when concerning motorcycles. For some reason in this country especially it seems as if we motorcyclists are looked upon as sub-human, not worthy of protection in the eyes of the law. It's a sad thing and people keep getting hurt in more than just physical ways from this "battle". Personally I think that everyone should have to retake the driving test every 5 or 10 years. I say this because in studies done by GMAC with their annual drivers test survey, they had some scary numbers about drivers. Here's a link to a recent article on it. Honestly, if that many people are failing in the surveys, we really should start retesting and revoking if they don't pass. But again, that's just my opinion. |
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September 8th, 2011, 09:57 AM | #64 |
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That car is front wheel drive. All they had to do was make sure it was in park and all of this would have been avoided...
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September 8th, 2011, 02:06 PM | #65 |
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The car shifted sideways, not forward.
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September 8th, 2011, 02:54 PM | #66 |
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Hopefully not longer than a nanosecond. In spite of airbags and seat belts, people get killed in cars all the time too.
A few years ago, down the street from me, a dirt hauling dump truck hit a pickup truck head on. The result was that the pickup driver was only scratched and the dump truck driver was killed in spite of having a 25000# advantage. Also, in Taiwan, a cargo van driver fell asleep and crossed the line and hit a sport biker head on. The sport biker got launched over the van and came in for a landing on the other side. He was in full leathers and gear and walked away with only minor injuries. Meanwhile, the van driver had the steering wheel shoved through his heart by the impact and was killed instantly. The bottom line is: "Sh!t Happens. When its your time, its your time." In cases like this one, it wasn't the rider's fault, but we can use what happened to him as a learning experience to try and figure out what we could do to avoid the accident if we have a similar riding experience. We know for a fact that the rider did something in response to the old hag being on the wrong side of the road that caused him to end up under the car. So if the old hag does that to you, what would be a plausible avenue of escape?
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September 8th, 2011, 03:30 PM | #67 | |
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September 8th, 2011, 03:38 PM | #68 | ||
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September 8th, 2011, 04:03 PM | #69 |
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September 8th, 2011, 04:25 PM | #70 |
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It's hard to say from the video, but as someone pointed out here, the poor guy has probably lowsided and that's how he ended up being run over by the car. The alternative actions don't look too promising either. What could have been done differently? Meet her head-on? Screech the brakes and jump off the bike, onto the hood or away from the car?
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September 8th, 2011, 05:36 PM | #71 | |
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In a situation like this, if the driver sees you and stops, then go right. If not, go left. Left has the danger that the driver will suddenly realize he's in the wrong lane and suddenly jerk the car back. It also has a high risk of putting you in the path of other vehicles. I've been studying motorcycle accidents for a while and I can say that the best course of action would be one that avoids putting the rider under the wheels of another vehicle. When that happens, its almost always fatal.
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September 9th, 2011, 06:21 AM | #72 | |
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Honestly, speaking as someone who has to deal with the "Do Gooders" fairly often, the only care I want a non-medically trained person providing is putting pressure on a bleeding wound and CPR. I've had to order, with threat of arrest by a LEO, more than my fair share of "Good Samaritans". It gets old. |
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September 14th, 2011, 08:35 AM | #73 |
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RIP Fellow rider
I didn't see this posted anywhere, so I'll post it here. Watching the video, the bike sure looks like a 250.
The video is not "graphic" per se, and I would like to find out the full story before passing judgment. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...-rss&FEEDNAME= |
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September 14th, 2011, 08:38 AM | #74 |
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we had the video linked a while back. :S
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September 14th, 2011, 08:53 AM | #75 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
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September 14th, 2011, 09:05 AM | #76 |
Smoker
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Search impaired.
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September 14th, 2011, 09:06 AM | #77 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
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Its ok i wouldnt know how to search it, i just scrolled from a few pages because i remembered seeing it a while ago.
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September 14th, 2011, 09:39 AM | #78 |
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Coming from someone who HAS done extrications, I have to say that I think the person who used the spreader made a bad call. There is not a lot on cars in that rear section to brace against like on the side where there's a frame rail. Fortunately there was sufficient cribbing placed under the fram already to prevent the car from doing what everyone claims was done (dropping onto the rider and crushing him). It's easy to second guess after the fact, absolutely. And the rescue guys were only doing what they thought was right, absolutely. And they should have used the airbags as a first option, absolutely. The spreaders are not meant to be used like that while the airbags are.
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September 15th, 2011, 03:28 PM | #79 |
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"Wow... it's kind of hard to believe how uneducated (I'm just assuming, here) these paramedics/firemen were about cars"
Just imagine the clearance there is under the carriage of a regular car, there isnt much room in there. The situation was just aggravated by the dragging of 30 ft. What the rescuers have or havent done is irrelevant to the secondary fact - dragging.
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September 15th, 2011, 04:12 PM | #80 |
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Yeah, reading about moments like this makes it almost not worth the risk. Lately, I've experienced problems with people who aren't even close to kicking the bucket yet. Most of my oh sh!t moments have been with young female college students who are in a hurry and don't stop at stop signs.
I remember reading about guy that died on a Florida beach running - a plane crashed on him while he was jogging.If you are afraid of everything then you will experience nothing. Ride safe and live well my fellow riders. I really hope to read less of these type of stories as more people pick up motorcycle riding. |
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