March 19th, 2014, 05:25 AM | #41 | |
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March 19th, 2014, 05:30 AM | #42 |
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March 19th, 2014, 06:02 AM | #43 |
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Either way will work, its just that the stand makes it a lot easier. Here is one at Walmart for $50. If you think there might be the possibility that you will ever rebuild another engine, then the stand is a good investment. I bought the stand in the photo for $40 w/free shipping and the first engine on it was a small block Chevy V-8 engine. The handle lets me rotate the engine for the easiest access. Whichever method works for you is what you need.
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March 19th, 2014, 06:09 AM | #44 |
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The only problem with those stands is you can't split the case with the stand. And once the case is together you don't need to rotate the engine. The stand is also very low.
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March 19th, 2014, 12:47 PM | #45 | |
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So when the case is split, I have the head down like in the photo. When I'm working on the clutch or flywheel side, then I rotate it so that those are facing up or whatever is optimum. Then head up when I'm working on the cylinders. It does take a little bit of time to get the holes in the angle drilled properly, but I've had to work on three engines using that setup so far and it was well worth the investment in time in my opinion. However, if you only plan on doing it once, the bench is good enough. I actually had the stand from a prior project so I didn't have to buy anything. The steel is from an old bed frame. Actually, I did have to buy some bolts, but they couldn't have been more than $10 total at the hardware store. EDIT: Here is a photo of it split on the stand.
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March 19th, 2014, 04:16 PM | #46 |
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I like how you did that. And it looks good.
I had one of those stands fall over with a V8 once and never used them again. One thing, if you are going to work on the engine on a bunch you need to remove all the drain bolts and lower sump(8-12). So the engine will sit flat.
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March 20th, 2014, 06:59 PM | #47 |
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I received the new head in the mail, opened it partially up, and everything looks really great!!! I'll post up pictures later this week when i work on the bike again!
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March 20th, 2014, 09:09 PM | #48 |
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March 24th, 2014, 05:21 AM | #49 |
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Okay so i didn't get to work on the bike at all this weekend, I wasn't feeling that great and then had to go do family stuff with the gf. But this upcoming weekend is all mine!!!
So the new head i got is in great shape but it is taken apart and I don't have a spring compressor for the valves. I'm not complaining about this at all because the member I got it from was very generous and I'm very thankful!!! I don't mind buying one but after looking at a couple, i realized I have no idea what size the springs are and what size spring compressor I need? Any advice on this? Or type of spring compressor to use? I was leaning towards a kit similar to this one but cheaper: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-5...ht_4779wt_1126 |
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March 24th, 2014, 09:24 AM | #50 | |
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Thing I used was an old socket that i cut open on one side so i can put the retainers on. Pretty much like the item you pictured above. The valve springs are not that strong. I just used one hand to compress and the other to put the retainers on. If you got a socket that can fit over the top of the spring top and dont like it, cut it open on one or two sides and yay got a way to compress the valve and install You can just get any valve compressor tool, most will work. Just make sure you put the head on something soft so when you compress the valve it doesnt hit anything hard to bend it.
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March 24th, 2014, 03:38 PM | #51 |
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I don't think the valve compressors with the little hooks work that well. You need to get the kind that looks like a C-clamp. Or you could just use a C-Clamp with an O2 sensor socket. Both are available at Harbor Freight. The O2 sensor socket has a cut in the side that you can get the keepers in through. If you use a C-clamp, you need a big one to clear both the socket and the head. I would guess that would be about 8-10".
Here is what the official Kawasaki Valve tool looks like:
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March 27th, 2014, 12:15 AM | #52 | ||
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March 27th, 2014, 12:35 AM | #53 |
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So I had a couple hours to kill today which gave me a chance to work a bit on the bike, I still haven't replaced the cam chain yet, so i worked on taking the side casings off, and loosened all the bolts to split the crankshaft casing, but I ran out of time and decided to split the case next time i work on it.
I did however clean the carbon off the pistons, and cleaned all the gasket surfaces, so putting it together will be quicker. I did notice theres a ring of carbon at the top of the cylinders about a 1/4 inch depth from the top of the cylinder, so if i get a chance tomorrow I'm going to try and hone or deglaze the cylinders, with some experienced help of course, since I've never done it before. I'll throw some pictures up of that, if I do end up getting around to it. It's taking alot longer to rebuild this thing than i expected, waiting for parts, school, work, a girlfriend, and homework doesn't give me too much free time to work on it, but i'm determined to get it done in the next week or so! I wanna ride to work again!! |
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March 27th, 2014, 05:49 AM | #54 |
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There are several hidden bolts on the case top and bottom. Once you have them all out, there is a pry point next to a '#' marked area. It pries apart relatively easy so if it doesn't, then you missed a bolt.
There are no gaskets to reassemble the case, but you'll need to pick up a tube of Hondabond at your local Honda dealer. Its about $15-$20 a tube. Its not the same thing as permatex RTV. I haven't used RTV myself, but I've had too many people tell me they had oil leaks afterwards when they used it, so I've always just used the HondaBond. The manual says "kawibond", but Hondabond is just as good. The 1/4" carbon ring at the top of the cylinders is the distance from the top of the piston to the first ring. When you clean that off, you may feel a lip right there. That is from wear. Measuring the thickness of that lip is a good rule of thumb to find out if you need new cylinders. At 41K, you are probably close, but you can always replace them later if you don't do it now. If you need new cylinders, you have several options. A) A low miles used cylinder set from ebay. B) New cylinder$ from the dealer that have to be installed at a machine shop. C) Have the machine shop bore your old cylinders oversize and install new oversize piston$. In all cases, you'll need new rings to match whatever pistons you end up with.
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March 29th, 2014, 06:52 PM | #55 | |
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March 29th, 2014, 06:58 PM | #56 |
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or a way to hold the flywheel so i can remove it?
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March 29th, 2014, 07:08 PM | #57 |
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That is the oil tube banjo bolt. Be careful with that one. Don't force it. The best way is to remove the flywheel. You might be able to get it off by using an open end wrench.
That part is necessary for proper internal oil circulation.
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March 29th, 2014, 07:37 PM | #58 |
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I tried an open end wrench, theres not enough clearance to get it on the bolt head comfortably.
how do i remove the flywheel? Is there a special tool? I still don't have my manual yet, so i can't check, it should be here monday. |
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March 30th, 2014, 05:20 AM | #59 | |
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Also be very sure that the wheel puller center bolt can't damage the crankshaft threads. If it can, you may have to install the crank bolt back in there a little ways to protect the threads. To put it back on, its just a simple matter of torquing it to 50#. Here is what the custom flywheel puller tool looks like and is available on ebay for about $40.
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March 30th, 2014, 11:17 AM | #60 | |
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March 30th, 2014, 04:37 PM | #61 |
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Jam a screwdriver between the gear teeth.
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March 30th, 2014, 08:12 PM | #62 |
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Thanks for the help!!! i got the flywheel off in a couple of mins, when i figured out the right way to do it thanks to you @n4mwd.
Autozone had a three jaw puller for loan, so i picked that up and it worked perfect. popped right off! got the oil banjo bolt off no problem that way. The only thing i'm stuck on now is getting the clutch basket off I know there's a special too for that, there always is, however i'm trying to come up with a way to do it without buying the special tool. It might take me a day or two to figure something out and fashion one up. |
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March 30th, 2014, 08:59 PM | #63 |
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So I finally receiver my valve spring compressor in the mail yesterday, $23 on ebay and i'm in business...
heres a couple pics i took while lapping the valves and after installing a few of the springs. A couple of the valves before lapping... After lapping: Staying organized... Lapped vs not lapped yet Intake vs exhaust: I noticed the intake side had a smaller seat, i guess you could call it, that was being lapped vs the exhaust side, not sure if thats normal but it was the same on all of them. Got the exhaust valves lapped and put the springs, and retainers in. |
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March 31st, 2014, 04:58 AM | #64 |
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At some point you need to clean your parts with purple before putting it back together. Tough parts use easy off oven cleaner (with rubber gloves). Also, be careful cleaning old gasket material off. Don't use a knife or anything steel to remove the old stuff. Super stubborn stuff comes off with a nylon wire wheel.
To get the clutch nut off, the easiest way is to use an impact wrench. You need a 27mm socket anyway which is about $5 at Harbor Freight. A breaker bar will work too, but you need a clutch tool to hold it. Here is one that I made out of a spare clutch disk. You can buy them already made on ebay for about $15. There is also a vice grip looking tool that you can get, but some people have had trouble with those.
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March 31st, 2014, 05:43 AM | #65 | |
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I'm just curious, and trying to learn as well. Unfortunately I don't have an impact wrench or access to one so i'll have to make do with my breaker bar, and some good ol fashioned elbow grease. also i'll see what i have lying around that i can make a clutch tool with. I have a question too, if i am splitting the case open is it possible that i don't need to take the clutch basket off to begin with, as i can slip my new cam chain in around the gear? I'll keep updating with progress, pictures, and questions. |
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March 31st, 2014, 03:45 PM | #66 |
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You need to clean everything so you can properly inspect the parts. There could be cracks and junk that you might need to deal with.
I don't think its required to remove the clutch basket nut to change the timing chain. You might have to lift it out of there a little bit to get the chain in, but I think it would be possible to leave it on. If you decide to remove it, you'll need the clutch tool for removing it as well as installing it if you don't use an impact wrench. That nut has 100# of torque on it and you need a 1/2" torque wrench to put it back on regardless. Actually, the nut itself is supposed to be replaced too if you go by the factory recommendations.
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April 1st, 2014, 12:55 AM | #67 | |
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I have all day to work on it tomorrow so i'm hoping to get the old parts out, the new ones, in and start putting it back together. My manual was supposed to come in the mail today but it didn't get delivered .....so that postpones everything even longer now since i don't know torque values for most bolts and i won't get the mail delivered til 3-4pm. i'll do what i can til then As for the clutch basket nut, i really hope you're right and i don't have to take it off. that would save me alot of trouble and time. i'll just pop open the case lift it up take the old chain out, new chain in, reassemble and we're back in business. I know i'm asking alot of questions, but here's another one..... Is it easier to open the case from the bottom or top, or which is the best way to prevent alot of things from shifting? right now i have the engine upside down straddling some wood blocks, but i was looking at the parts diagram and it seems the crank, and transmission rest in the bottom of the case so it would be easier to lift off the top....is that correct? |
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April 1st, 2014, 05:09 AM | #68 | |
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You can use any kind of degreaser. Purple is kind of a generic name. I have used Easy Off oven cleaner for stubborn parts. Just don't use any kind of steel brush or knife or screwdriver or steel wool, etc.. You should also be aware that too much purple will remove the paint from the engine as well if it gets on it. Didn't I already post the torque values here? Open the engine by lifting the bottom off (engine upside down). Break the seal by prying off with a large screwdriver or pry bar. If it doesn't pry loose easy, there is still a bolt holding it. Look for the pry point which is near a flat spot with '#' (crosshatch) markings.
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April 1st, 2014, 05:49 AM | #69 | |
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Sorry, you did post the torque values, for some reason i only saw the last page of it where it had the generic torque value for thread diameter. Thanks!!! That was my main reason for ordering the manual, but i guess since i already ordered it, it doesn't hurt to own it. ok thanks!! I already have the engine upside down, due to an instruction you previously had said, but looking at the parts diagram made me question it. i was able to break it apart already but the oil pipe banjo bolt restricted me from taking it apart, now that i got the flywheel off and the banjo bolt off it should come right apart. i was just hesitating because of the clutch basket. But if splitting it allows me to bypass removing the clutch basket, i see no need to remove it, it works perfectly fine and is not giving any signs of the infamous kawi clutch rattle of doom. |
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April 1st, 2014, 02:12 PM | #70 |
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Purple or similar will get most of the carbon off. You can get the carbon out of the cylinder wall and then I would still hone it as a minimum. If you have a drill press, it will make the job a lot easier once you set it up.
I strongly recommend that you install brand new rings. If you can feel no lip at the top of the cylinder, there is a good chance it doesn't need boring or replacing, so all you need are standard sized rings and you can use your old pistons. The reason is solely because of the number of miles on the engine. When you get it back together, you'll essentially have a brand new engine. Oh, and one thing before I forget. When you put everything back together, you need to first check all the oil passages in the engine, including the hose, to make sure none of them are clogged up. They are probably OK, but you had some unusual wear on your cams that shouldn't have been that way.
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April 2nd, 2014, 02:24 AM | #71 |
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Ok, a little update on how far i got today. i started later than I thought I was going too, so i didn't accomplish as much as i would have hoped.
I opened the crankcase, and just as i had suspected I was able to change the chain by lifting up the clutch basket and all the gears attached to it, and slightly lifting the crank to take the old one out and put the new one in. My luck however didn't last long as when i lifted up the clutch basket and all the gears attached to it, things began to misalign, so after an hour of headache and intense service maunal reading, i finally figured out that the races have an oil pin hole that must be seated, and that if you don't seat it the case won't align. As well as that the transmission will promptly shift out of neutral when messing with transmission gears, and that there are holders for the gears that are a pain to get on, when you don't have the luxury of the case being able to come completely off because of the clutch basket. In the end taking the clutch basket off will save you a bit of time and a headache, but if you don't wanna buy the tool, it is possible to change the chain!! Anyways I got the chain in, the crankcase cleaned, lubed in the right spots, sealed with hondabond, flywheel on, clutch on, clutch and stator covers with new gaskets on, starter bolted back on. still deciding if i should just get new rings for peace of mind and hone the cylinders, since its already apart. Its $82 for a new set of rings, and i can get them by friday, but it means i'm at a stopping point til then. I'm gonna add up all my costs so far, including tools i bought for this project and see what my budget has been and hopefully i still have room to get the rings. i'm trying to keep it under $300. |
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April 2nd, 2014, 02:24 AM | #72 |
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I have some pics I took too, that i'll throw up when i get a chance. camera was dead or i would have had them up.
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April 2nd, 2014, 06:45 AM | #73 |
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Sorry I couldn't post a pic of my clutch tool, waiting on a new phone. It would not have worked for you anyway unless you have a spare pressure plate.
I drilled out the center of a spare pressure plate, I use a deep socket thru the hole to take the nut off with an air wrench.
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April 2nd, 2014, 07:14 AM | #74 | |
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Most everything either goes together or it doesn't. The only thing that is critical to be aligned properly when putting the case back together is the harmonic balancer gear. There is a little spot on both the crank gear and the harmonic balancer gear that must match up. If the crank came out enough to let those gears disengage on the flywheel side, then there could be a problem. You can inspect this if you have the flywheel off. The other thing is that its really very important to verify as best as you can that the oil passages are not blocked or restricted. If they are and you miss it, then all your work is for nothing. Lastly, remember to inspect the rod bearings by shaking them up and down. There should be no detectable movement up and down and only a very slight movement when gently twisting.
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April 2nd, 2014, 07:46 AM | #75 |
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If I may go slightly off topic, @n4mwd, further up the page you said that fitting new cylinders would require a machine shop. What is the reason for this? Do they need to be machined after fitting? The reason I ask is I am considering resleeving mine.
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April 2nd, 2014, 01:38 PM | #76 | |
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April 2nd, 2014, 03:34 PM | #77 |
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Ah that's cool, I have a 6 tonne press and with a bit of looking sure I can find what I need to push them out/in. I was just wondering if they needed to be machined after fitting. The only problem I see with buying through ebay/inet is they might list as a low mile set, but send one with 50 or 60 thousand kms. putting me in the same boat I am in now. If I buy the sleeves for little more than the cost of a second hand cylinder I will have brand new bores, pistons and rings. I already have the pistons and rings, but am unable to use them as my current cylinder is .50mm oversize. It seems that these oversize pistons and rings are not available as I have been waiting since June last year for them to turn up.
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April 2nd, 2014, 05:07 PM | #78 | |
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April 2nd, 2014, 05:09 PM | #79 | |
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April 2nd, 2014, 06:59 PM | #80 | |
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If a guy on ebay sends you a part that isn't what was in the description, then you can get ebay to make him refund you. You can tell if the cylinder is bad or severely worn with the proper measuring tool.
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