2013 zx 636!!!

[thurt88]

I don't get all the excitement. What's the big deal? They had a 636 a few years ago and it was so special that I never heard about it. I guess if you are looking at middleweights it would be a bit of an advantage but cosmetically it looks the same as the others. What's the big improvement over last years 600 ? Don't say 36cc's either, lol. Disappointed that they put a 636 but not a 600 like last time.

[Panda]

Originally Posted by areifel

JK man. I was at the times square show today and the 636 has great ergos Traction control, ABS in a 600 are winners. I am not a huge fan of the bigger Kawi bikes but this one has me thinking...

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by thurt88

I don't get all the excitement. What's the big deal? They had a 636 a few years ago and it was so special that I never heard about it. I guess if you are looking at middleweights it would be a bit of an advantage but cosmetically it looks the same as the others. What's the big improvement over last years 600 ? Don't say 36cc's either, lol. Disappointed that they put a 636 but not a 600 like last time.

Obviously you have never read a post eloquently written by @Kevin2109

[choneofakind]

Traction control and ABS on one bike is innovating? That's two things they already know how to make. I mean, if it was a brand new idea, that's innovation. This is just adaptation.

idk, I guess I'm just not brand loyal.

[Trailerboy531]

I'm not really brand loyal but I do feel that Kawasaki is now offering a package that is leading the pack.

As far as light bikes go a 300cc with DFI, Slipper (meh), and ABS is going to dominate over the only offering having less power. It's the beginner segment and new guys are going to want a bit more power while still having a 'beginner' bike. Plus, let's face it, the CBR 250 is ugly.

A 636cc bike being the only one to offer traction control as well as ABS is going to lead the middleweight segment. There's nothing really tangible (that may be the wrong word) that the other 600s offer that the Kawasaki doesn't have. It's got a little bit more speed; but a semi-mature rider even will tell you they're all fast and who really cares at that point. It's mostly up to the chooser at that point but there's no denying the Kawi does have a little bit more to offer with the slightly larger engine and traction control and that will draw some potential buyers.

Then there's superbikes. The zx10r winning all of this years shoot out comparisons. They're all great bikes and again it's up to the purchaser here based on looks, ergos, feel, etc. But the ZX10 isn't winning all of the shoot outs for no reason; it's definitely an amazing bike and the motor is a friggin' monster.

Kawasaki is the sport/super sport platform to beat right now.

[Boom King]

I don't put too much stock into magazine shoot-outs as it seems that it comes down to personal rider preference more than anything as pointed out. The S1000RR does seem to be the general popular choice for the guys over at Motorcycle USA for street though with the CBR getting the best subjective and objective scores on the track. No matter what you go with though, doesn't seem to be any losers.

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Traction control and ABS on one bike is innovating? That's two things they already know how to make. I mean, if it was a brand new idea, that's innovation. This is just adaptation.

idk, I guess I'm just not brand loyal.

Yes it is, they are the first ones to do it in a 600-class supersports, therefore it is innovative almost by definition. Besides this is the most complete 600 supersport package available:

- Showa big piston fork (which by the way Honda just in 2012 put on their 1000RR)
- different levels of throttle power maps
- different levels of traction control
- optional ABS
- slipper clutch

All under 430 pounds wet. Every other 600 (or almost 600 like the 848 or GSXR750) is behind. As a package the only place it really went backwards is removing the steering damper.

Then again, who knows how it actually rides. Anyone know when these will be hitting show rooms? I didn't see that info in any announcements today.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

I'm not really brand loyal but I do feel that Kawasaki is now offering a package that is leading the pack.

As far as light bikes go a 300cc with DFI, Slipper (meh), and ABS is going to dominate over the only offering having less power. It's the beginner segment and new guys are going to want a bit more power while still having a 'beginner' bike. Plus, let's face it, the CBR 250 is ugly.

A 636cc bike being the only one to offer traction control as well as ABS is going to lead the middleweight segment. There's nothing really tangible (that may be the wrong word) that the other 600s offer that the Kawasaki doesn't have. It's got a little bit more speed; but a semi-mature rider even will tell you they're all fast and who really cares at that point. It's mostly up to the chooser at that point but there's no denying the Kawi does have a little bit more to offer with the slightly larger engine and traction control and that will draw some potential buyers.

Then there's superbikes. The zx10r winning all of this years shoot out comparisons. They're all great bikes and again it's up to the purchaser here based on looks, ergos, feel, etc. But the ZX10 isn't winning all of the shoot outs for no reason; it's definitely an amazing bike and the motor is a friggin' monster.

Kawasaki is the sport/super sport platform to beat right now.

Theres also the Ninja 1000 that's been named motorcycle of the year (twice?) and I saw a couple magazines name it the best value as well.

And then theres the 650 whose only competition is the fz6r. I was deadset on the fz6r until I saw the 2012 650 and now the 2013s have optional ABS as well.

Kawi is the smallest of the 4 right? And yet I feel like they are leading the pack as well. My fanboyism is justified

[Trailerboy531]

I don't know about smallest. Maybe... but you should google Kawasaki Heavy Industries.

They build sport bikes...and oil tankers....and rocket launch platforms...

[Boom King]

By the numbers, motorcycle production wise, I do believe traditionally it's ranked Honda (obvious), Yamaha, Suzuki, then Kawasaki. Gotta love the green machine...

Edit: I should add that there have been years where the other big 3 have switched spots but Kawasaki's production figures always seems to be the smallest.

[ninjaone]

In terms of motorcycle sales I believe they are the smallest, which I never really understood. They always seem to have competitive products.

Yamaha also builds pianos and Honda builds robots called Asimo. I always respected Suzuki most since they focus almost entirely on automotive.

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

I always respected Suzuki most since they focus almost entirely on automotive.

Doesn't seem to be doing their car segment much good around here...

[Jiggles]

Yea I meant of the motorcycle production lines

[Boom King]

Ya Suzuki doesn't seem to do as well over here but they must be selling a lot of cars somewhere. They're around top 10 worldwide in production and are definitely bigger than Mazda and Mitsubishi.

[Trailerboy531]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

Yes it is, they are the first ones to do it in a 600-class supersports, therefore it is innovative almost by definition. Besides this is the most complete 600 supersport package available:

- Showa big piston fork (which by the way Honda just in 2012 put on their 1000RR)
- different levels of throttle power maps
- different levels of traction control
- optional ABS
- slipper clutch

All under 430 pounds wet. Every other 600 (or almost 600 like the 848 or GSXR750) is behind. As a package the only place it really went backwards is removing the steering damper.

Then again, who knows how it actually rides. Anyone know when these will be hitting show rooms? I didn't see that info in any announcements today.

I dont believe it did lose the steering damper. Also, the gixxer and CBR both have the Showa forks. Slippers everywhere. Modes too (except the R6, maybe the cbr? not sure)

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by Trailerboy531

I dont believe it did lose the steering damper. Also, the gixxer and CBR both have the Showa forks. Slippers everywhere. Modes too (except the R6, maybe the cbr? not sure)

CBR600RR doesn't have the big piston, that's new for the 2012 1000RR only. CBR600 doesn't have a slipper either. This new 636 makes the other Japanese 600s look (even more) old IMO, they are all due for an upgrade.

According to the zx6r forum the steering damper is gone. Surprising since the ZX10 just added Ohlins electronic damping.

[Trailerboy531]

Confusing. Some of the photos show a triple tree with nothing over it. Then there's this... on the official site.

http://ninja6r.kawasaki.com/details#photo-53

So.......

Edit: looks like that link doesn't fully work. You're going to have to click on details and then photos and click over. But you'll see it there... all damper and Ohlinsy

[ninjaone]

Looks like it's offered as accessory only. Not a huge deal, just odd they would choose to drop it entirely, especially considering the price bump.

[menikmati]

I really dig the white/black color scheme, I've always loved the 2009+ ZX6R and this looks even better although I'm shallow and did prefer the white-face gauges on the 2009+.

[backinthesaddleagain]

The 2009+ ZX6R steering damper was more marketing flash (with Ohlins logo) than functional. However being that Ohlins did build it, companies like Race Tech can revalve it into a steering damper that makes a difference.

This new ZX6R looks like its all that. Can't wait to see one and more importantly hope to ride one. Not entirely sold on the need for different modes on a 600, but no biggie just leave it in the mode that works for you.

FWIW it makes all the others look old. CBR has no traction control, no slipper clutch, no BPF, but can I tell the difference? Not really. Haven't felt a lot of slip on the street accelerating out of cornders.

Also Honda probably got the BPF set up wrong on the 1000RR as some magazines preferred the prior year forks. I think the Suzi 1000 was the same way the first year they went to BPF. Only Kawi scored initially with the 600 and 1000's BPF. Thats out of the box of course I am sure any competent suspension tuner can fix that up.

Now for a fun bike - the KTM RC8R - no frills but sweet powerband and handling.

In the short term though its hard to argue with the price of a left over latest generation ZX10R.

[adouglas]

Tall seat, dangit. 32.7 inches. Up over half an inch (16mm) from last year's.

I'll have to sit on one to see if it's real-world street practical for a danged midget like me. Right now the SS I lust after is the GSXR 750 in large part because the thing actually fits me. I can't even begin to consider a Yamaha.

Liking the look and the features A LOT. Can't wait to see the dyno charts on it.

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

FWIW it makes all the others look old. CBR has no traction control, no slipper clutch, no BPF, but can I tell the difference? Not really. Haven't felt a lot of slip on the street accelerating out of cornders.

Well the only reason to get really excited about the new ZX6R in my opinion is if you are using it as a track bike. Traction control on the street for a 600? Might not make a ton of sense. Same with the BPF and slipper clutch. I get how a slipper clutch might make smoother downshifts for noobs on the streets, but if you are using it regularly then in my opinion you are just developing a bad shifting habit.

I'll have to test how the ZX6R actually rides but for a street 600 I think the Honda is still better, but for the track the ZX6R makes the other supersports look very very dated.

[austexjg]

Nice, but I'll wait until there are some used ones on the market - besides, the '09 ZX6R in the garage is still making me drool anyway. And I have yet to even run this beast to 80% of its' potential on the track.

Doubt I would use the power modes - the traction control could be okay - the extra 37cc might come in handy when trying to hit light speed - ABS could be useful - $11,699.00 is not that attractive when compared to the euro bikes - just some immediate thoughts.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

Well the only reason to get really excited about the new ZX6R in my opinion is if you are using it as a track bike. Traction control on the street for a 600? Might not make a ton of sense. Same with the BPF and slipper clutch. I get how a slipper clutch might make smoother downshifts for noobs on the streets, but if you are using it regularly then in my opinion you are just developing a bad shifting habit.

I'll have to test how the ZX6R actually rides but for a street 600 I think the Honda is still better, but for the track the ZX6R makes the other supersports look very very dated.

Yeah I rode an 848 streetfighter on the street and saw no need to play with the traction control settings, maybe on wet or cold pavement? And Moto GP 2, those guys are riding 600cc w/o traction control. Good point on relying on slipper clutch and bad habits. Even the ABS on my CBR made me have quick moment when I trailbraked a bit too far on an R1 demo on a track day and realized I am probably braking a bit too hard for some conditions due to ABS when riding my bike.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by thurt88

I don't get all the excitement. What's the big deal? They had a 636 a few years ago and it was so special that I never heard about it. I guess if you are looking at middleweights it would be a bit of an advantage but cosmetically it looks the same as the others. What's the big improvement over last years 600 ? Don't say 36cc's either, lol. Disappointed that they put a 636 but not a 600 like last time.

So lets start off... 37cc doesnt seem like a lot but its 7% more then a standard 599cc bike, which is generally a 10-20hp advantage over a 599cc engine. This also moves the torque range, most 600's need to be spun above 8k before they have any usable power, the 636 brings that down to about 3-4k.

Here is a quick demonstration of that

Link to original page on YouTube.

Start at 1:27 and watch me pull on the r6 in the straight like no other (my skill slowed me down in the corners )


I dont have time today to write a long explanation of why the 636 is superior but here are some points:

The front fork is a new design for a street bike, it's called a Single Function Fork - Big Piston. Essentially the left fork houses spring preload, the right fork has compression and rebound. This has been used on several dirt bikes very effectively for a few years now and works equally well on the new ZX-6R.

The over all chassis is an evolution, it's essentially the same with some minor tweaks to the rigidity and a slightly decreased rake thanks to a revised shock linkage.

Traction control is standard, ABS is an option. The TC functions like the ZX-14R's, the first two modes being from the 10R, the third mode being from the Concours. Think fast for 1-2, safety for 3. You will not be able to turn off the ABS.

Oh, and clearly you arnt a Kawasaki fan, because the 636 was there best selling zx6r of any year, hence why they brought it back

[ninjaone]

Since when do sales numbers imply a bike is high quality or even any good at all? Last I checked the fireblade is the best selling liter, but I wouldn't even put it in the top 5 for either quality or technology.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

Since when do sales numbers imply a bike is high quality or even any good at all? Last I checked the fireblade is the best selling liter, but I wouldn't even put it in the top 5 for either quality or technology.

You are clearly bitter because you own a HONDA


The 636 is an extremely popular race bike, I wonder why?

[ninjaone]

Bitter about what? I have been praising the new 636 this entire time, without even riding it yet.

[thurt88]

Well, I know that when they brought out the 636 they also brought out a zx6 at the same time.

So in a nut shell the 636 is better than the the 600 because it has 36cc's ? bleh.

If it was better then they wouldn't need the extra cc's to compete. I'm just sayin. For the comment of not being a kawi fan, both my bikes are Kawasaki but I am looking at picking up a crf 250L in the not so distant future.


I'm not a track day guy nor a street racer or a mechanic/tech so I guess I just wont understand the hoopla over it. Im more excited about the 300 actually. But hey... if you guys are thrilled Im thrilled.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by thurt88

Well, I know that when they brought out the 636 they also brought out a zx6 at the same time.

So in a nut shell the 636 is better than the the 600 because it has 36cc's ? bleh.

If it was better then they wouldn't need the extra cc's to compete. I'm just sayin. For the comment of not being a kawi fan, both my bikes are Kawasaki but I am looking at picking up a crf 250L in the not so distant future.


I'm not a track day guy nor a street racer or a mechanic/tech so I guess I just wont understand the hoopla over it. Im more excited about the 300 actually. But hey... if you guys are thrilled Im thrilled.

The 599cc version was brought out to allow racing in supersport (<600cc) class, the main version was the 636, that extra 37cc was calculated to be enough to give it a better low & mid range torque for use on the street.

I personally found the old 636 to be an uncomfortable machine, on par with the CBR600RR, lets see how the new one feels.
Gixxer 6s & 750s, CBR600F4i & old R6 fit me nicely, 848 fits like a glove. Strange really, almost everyone calls the CBR600 the most comfortable supersport.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by thurt88

I don't get all the excitement. What's the big deal? They had a 636 a few years ago and it was so special that I never heard about it. I guess if you are looking at middleweights it would be a bit of an advantage but cosmetically it looks the same as the others. What's the big improvement over last years 600 ? Don't say 36cc's either, lol. Disappointed that they put a 636 but not a 600 like last time.

If you've never heard of the 636, then frankly you probably don't know the first thing about motorcycles and you are certainly not the market Kawi is aiming for. The 636 pretty much dominated the middleweight category when it was made, and yes, it was all about the extra 37 cc's.

[Whiskey]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

Well the only reason to get really excited about the new ZX6R in my opinion is if you are using it as a track bike. Traction control on the street for a 600? Might not make a ton of sense. Same with the BPF and slipper clutch. I get how a slipper clutch might make smoother downshifts for noobs on the streets, but if you are using it regularly then in my opinion you are just developing a bad shifting habit.

I'll have to test how the ZX6R actually rides but for a street 600 I think the Honda is still better, but for the track the ZX6R makes the other supersports look very very dated.

Where I live traction control & power modes for the street make sense, it rains about every 3rd day & can be pretty unpredictable.

Map it as low power & TC on for commuting, flick it into high power & acceleration modes for a bit of weekend fun

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by Whiskey

The 599cc version was brought out to allow racing in supersport (<600cc) class, the main version was the 636, that extra 37cc was calculated to be enough to give it a better low & mid range torque for use on the street.

I personally found the old 636 to be an uncomfortable machine, on par with the CBR600RR, lets see how the new one feels.
Gixxer 6s & 750s, CBR600F4i & old R6 fit me nicely, 848 fits like a glove. Strange really, almost everyone calls the CBR600 the most comfortable supersport.

Different bikes fit people differently. I could never get along with the R6. Also the 848 has very wacky ergonomics that I just couldn't get used too at all. Really liked the bike tho.

[ninjamunky85]

So let me get this straight, cause I haven't really been paying attention. Kawasaki isn't going to make a true 600cc bike next year? What about race bikes?

[arnoldc6]

I actually would rather get a daytona instead. Am i really the only one?

[ninjaone]

Originally Posted by ninjamunky85

So let me get this straight, cause I haven't really been paying attention. Kawasaki isn't going to make a true 600cc bike next year? What about race bikes?

If I remember correctly last time Kawasaki made the 636 they still made the 600s for those that wanted to race them. I don't think they sold them in the US market though.

I think Kawasaki has the right idea anyway. The rules for road racing are pointless restrictive when building street bikes especially when most people who buy them either never go to a track, or if they do actually go to the track do so on open class track days.

The move to increase displacement for both the 250 and the 600 are good moves. I hope we eventually get to a point where manufactures just build the best engines for the bikes as possible, and racing ccs which a fraction of people actually care about anyway would be secondary.

[ninjamunky85]

Originally Posted by arnoldc6

I actually would rather get a daytona instead. Am i really the only one?

+1 I get bored with the japanese bikes. They're all the same.

[Whiskey]

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Jiggles]

I want that suit

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by ninjaone

If I remember correctly last time Kawasaki made the 636 they still made the 600s for those that wanted to race them. I don't think they sold them in the US market though.

I think Kawasaki has the right idea anyway. The rules for road racing are pointless restrictive when building street bikes especially when most people who buy them either never go to a track, or if they do actually go to the track do so on open class track days.

The move to increase displacement for both the 250 and the 600 are good moves. I hope we eventually get to a point where manufactures just build the best engines for the bikes as possible, and racing ccs which a fraction of people actually care about anyway would be secondary.

Most racing classes require a manufacturer to produce a minimum number of a model similar to what that manufacturer will race with. In order to still have a bike that can compete in the 600cc class, Kawi has to produce and sell to the public a 599cc bike (the ZX-6RR). It's not about consumers who want to race their bikes, it's about the Kawi factory race teams.