Downgrading from a Yamaha R6....opinions wanted

[scotty]

I've been getting 53mpg everytime I fill up. I drive mostly city.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by devmasa

I think the 650R still claims to give 55 mpg
nothing beats the 60-65 mpg of the ninja though
...on that note what is the real world mpg that your 250 is giving?

50mpg. You'd have to crawl everywhere to get 60.

[drowe531]

Fuelly has the 650 around 43-45 from the people registered there I believe

http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/kawasaki/ninja%20650r

[devmasa]

Originally Posted by drowe531

Fuelly has the 650 around 43-45 from the people registered there I believe

http://www.fuelly.com/motorcycle/kawasaki/ninja%20650r

wow..thats a great resource

[almost40]

Now theres the FZ-6 and the FZ-6R.
I track ride an 04 FZ-6 and the only thing I dont like about it, is the brakes. (the 06 on up has better brakes) Its a heavy bike but doesnt feel like it when you moving. As far as perfomance goes the thing is a missle. (90+ horsepower) Way overpowered and underbraked in the 04 model. Good ride on the highway with the stock suspension, upright riding position and not as thirsty as an R6. New bikes are still out there, and used ones are inexpensive.
FZ-6R Looks nice, good ergos, thirsty for the HP rating. Its a Yamaha and therfore will be bulletproof for the most part.

[bamaland]

ex500 (50-65MPG)

simple, basically upsized 250..

i chose the 500 over the 250 because i wanted a little more power and something that fit my tall ass lol. im 6ft3 but only 165lbs so im a slim jim but i feel the 500 is just perfect for me and i wont need another upgrade for a very long time..

given i've had all sizes of bikes but i wont upgrade or downgrade unless something extremely juicy comes out in the us

[sombo]

I rode one once and wasn't all that impressed really. Sitting on it was like sitting on my 250, same reach, same position, same feel. But the part that was lacking was the feel of improvement. I think it had to do with how the owner had modded it. He didn't do a good job at modding it and actually made my 250 "FEEL" like it had more oomph then his 500. Would have to try a stock one to get a better idea of how the 500 really is I suppose.

[devmasa]

Looked at a couple of 2008+ ninja 250s locally...jeez everyone is price gouging for their new 250s knowing that the demand is so high.
Can someone tell me what would be a good price for a 2008 or beyond 250 with decent mileage (4K to 6K range)

P.S : I am finding good 2007+ 650Rs on craigslist for the same price as the 250s!

[thurt88]

I got a 2010 250r with 1 mile on it for $4,500.00 otd. Ive seen people get better deals than me but I wasnt dissatisfied and I liked the people at my dealer.

I also wanted to add that I commute on my 250 just about everyday to work when its not raining. My drive is all highway 75+mph and my bike does it just fine. Ive even looked down at my gps and caught myself going 95 with my 250lb body on the thing so dont underestimate the power of these things. I would suggest getting a better seat tho for longer trips. Im lookin into that myself.

[k-os]

I paid $3000 for mine with 700 miles 2 years ago in October. You should be able to find some with that mileage for around $2800-3000.

[GeneJunkie]

Originally Posted by k-os

I paid $3000 for mine with 700 miles 2 years ago in October. You should be able to find some with that mileage for around $2800-3000.

That depends on the location. In Southern California riding season is year round so it's difficult to find someone wanting to part with their bike when there is no off season. I also found when I was looking for a 250 that people were absolutely insane with their asking prices. Every one I looked at had some sort of cosmetic damage and they wanted $3600-$3800 for them and were not willing to budge. I ended up buying new because it wasn't worth price haggling and the possibility something could be wrong mechanically.

[devmasa]

plus with the kind of bikes I saw..I am pretty sure that they were not broken in properly.
I would need to take them to a motorcycle repair shop to get inspected before making any offers.

[Sailariel]

I guess that you can't have it all. The trick is to honestly determine where you are going to ride, what you are going to use your bike forTransportation, Recreational riding, commuting, sport touring) Then you need to address your ability--honestly--not what you think your ability should be. It helps to be humble in this department. I hear this sort of thing constantly when it comes to boats. Overall, people tend to be overboated. My wife and I did over 80,000 nautical miles in a 35' sailboat with no problems. A motorcycle is no different. The key is to determine where you will ride, how you will use your bike, and a realistic assesment of your ability. Balls to the wall acelleration is not always the answer. For some a 250 ridden a certain way is fine--others need a literbike. When we cruised on ArielIII, people thought one needed something bigger. They were doing 40 and 45 footers and ended up spending more for dockage, acessories, etc. We were quite comfortable. You just have to do your research.

[sombo]

Originally Posted by devmasa

plus with the kind of bikes I saw..I am pretty sure that they were not broken in properly.
I would need to take them to a motorcycle repair shop to get inspected before making any offers.

Well there's a huge debate on what the "proper" method is. However, I think most agree that the factory method is not it.

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by sombo

Well there's a huge debate on what the "proper" method is. However, I think most agree that the factory method is not it.

Yup, I'm sure the guys that designed and built the engine know absolutely nothing about the best way to run it...

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Reswob

Yup, I'm sure the guys that designed and built the engine know absolutely nothing about the best way to run it...

They may have designed and built the engine but that doesn't mean their suggested method is in our best interests. Most mechanics I have spoken to and heard from online have said it's a bogus method. Many of the riders here also say it's a bogus method. The reason is that their method doesn't allow for normal use or putting any sort of strain on the motor at all.

If you want your engine to run right, run it like you would normally ride it from the very beginning instead of babying it. Every vehicle I have ever driven, ran like crap if you babied it for as much as the factory wants you to for break-in. Whether you believe it or not, these are high performance engines that NEED to be given a workout.

If you don't give the engine the proper workout then it won't run right when you try to push it later on. This is also true in cars (show me a car that has a break-in method anything like the factory suggested ones for our bikes). I have driven several cars that were babied, and when you would try to get on them they would hesitate and sputter. This happened with every car that was babied and not given a proper workout. The same can/does/will happen with bikes that are babied. They need to be run at variable stresses to make sure the engine stays in top condition. It helps to make sure all parts are properly set, helps the engine stay clean, and helps you find areas in the engine that might become a problem down the road.

[Flashmonkey]

Originally Posted by Reswob

Yup, I'm sure the guys that designed and built the engine know absolutely nothing about the best way to run it...

They do but that doesn't mean that's what's reflected in the manufacturer's recommended break in period plan. I can almost guarantee you that the current "break in regimen" was devised by a team comprised of lawyers and cautious engineers to reduce liability.

And there is no "best" way to run it. "Best" depends on the intended application.

[backinthesaddleagain]

I know one downgrade going from R6 to 250R. Valve adjustments. Yammie squeezes 26K miles out of their valve checks, even on their 250 single. Of course Yam to anyother brand is also a downgrade re valve checks.

[Apex]

I moved from a higher CC motor to the 250 myself. After a while you don't notice the power difference. You just change your riding style to suit the bike you are on. On a 600, you are more likely to crack the throttle to get yourself out of a situation, the 250, well you flick it or hit the brakes. Most of the time "hitting the gas" at highway speeds means an acceleration curve that rivals a Toyota Prius. So I just ride differently. I enjoy the 250 quite a bit. Yeah it isn't fast, but it is fun. It vibes a lot, but that is just part of the bike. Twins will almost always vibe more than an I-4. Meh.

I'd say get the 250...pick up a used one. If you end up deciding you made the wrong choice, just throw it up for what you paid for it and sell it off to get something a little bigger (if required).

[bob138]

I know this may sound crazy but here you go:

Buell XB9sX 2006ish.

It has the passing power you want, can cruise at the speeds you want easy, won't feel like a downgrade in any way, has the upright seating position you want, and... gets high 40s MPG. Oh ya, and for some reason, insurance was cheap. I was stumped as to why, it may have been just my agent.

Once I can afford one I will be getting one

By the way. I went from a 99 GSXR750 to an EX500. The 500 was way more fun.

Bob

[Reswob]

Originally Posted by sombo

They may have designed and built the engine but that doesn't mean their suggested method is in our best interests. Most mechanics I have spoken to and heard from online have said it's a bogus method. Many of the riders here also say it's a bogus method. The reason is that their method doesn't allow for normal use or putting any sort of strain on the motor at all.

If you want your engine to run right, run it like you would normally ride it from the very beginning instead of babying it. Every vehicle I have ever driven, ran like crap if you babied it for as much as the factory wants you to for break-in. Whether you believe it or not, these are high performance engines that NEED to be given a workout.

If you don't give the engine the proper workout then it won't run right when you try to push it later on. This is also true in cars (show me a car that has a break-in method anything like the factory suggested ones for our bikes). I have driven several cars that were babied, and when you would try to get on them they would hesitate and sputter. This happened with every car that was babied and not given a proper workout. The same can/does/will happen with bikes that are babied. They need to be run at variable stresses to make sure the engine stays in top condition. It helps to make sure all parts are properly set, helps the engine stay clean, and helps you find areas in the engine that might become a problem down the road.

I'm sorry you're full of crap, my engine runs just fine. If Kawi ever wanted any of it's customers to be repeat customers, they wouldn't tell you to do something that would cause the bike to not work properly.

BTW, no car has a break in anymore...

[sombo]

Originally Posted by Reswob

I'm sorry you're full of crap, my engine runs just fine. If Kawi ever wanted any of it's customers to be repeat customers, they wouldn't tell you to do something that would cause the bike to not work properly.

BTW, no car has a break in anymore...

No, I'm not full of crap. Have you lived my life? Have you driven the vehicles I have? No? Then don't make such b/s accusations based on your opinion. I have indeed driven vehicles that have been babied by their owners that ran like crap when you tried to push them. They would hesitate and sputter before finally accelerating.

I you don't want to believe me, that's fine. Don't come on here accusing me of being full of crap just because you have a different opinion. In case you didn't notice there are already 2 other people telling you the same thing I am. Perhaps you should look at that and re-evaluate your position and responses to my advice.

[Postman]

Originally Posted by Reswob

Yup, I'm sure the guys that designed and built the engine know absolutely nothing about the best way to run it...

The ultra conservative manufacturer suggested break-in method is the policy for the manufacturer because it minimizes peoples ability to do whatever the hell they wanted and screw up the engine. If bike manufacturers told every single person to run the engine hard for the first xxxx miles, can you imagine how many people world-wide that have no idea how high performance engines work are gonna have messed up engines cause they did whatever the hell they wanted with it?

If the manufacturer told every buyer to ride it normally, how many different definitions of "riding normally" do you think are gonna be out there?

Manufacturer recommendations are ALWAYS conservative(for very good business reasons). It'll minimize warranty claims and liability for them. Same reason as to why they tell you to change your oil every 3000mi. It's a safe bet for them to call it that way... doesn't dictate how good your engine will actually run, it'll just minimize their liability.

Anyway, back on topic: I ride both the new-gen 250 and an R6. I dont ride the R6 on the street cause it's flat out uncomfortable; It's super tall, seat's rock hard, really aggressive ergos, short geared for the street with hardly any usable power down low, etc. It's just not a good street bike IMO. That said, I wont ever buy another 600 super sport to ride on the street again. Cool points simply don't outweigh practicality in street riding.

I commute with my stock 250 from San Diego to LA almost every week, all highway miles on the I-5. I normally cruise at 80mph(as slow and patient of a rider as I am on any other bike, I cant do any slower on the freeway with THIS bike). Perception of speed is slower(subjective) and at that speed you have the throttle basically pinned anyway(speedo's way off). I SHOULD re-gear for highway but that really takes away a little bit of fun out of this bike. Wouldn't sell the 250 cause it's too fun of a bike but i'll mention that it's not the best highway bike unless you're going less than 70mph(indicated) the entire time.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Honda CBR has 2 sentences re break in:

Help assure your motorcycle's future reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you ride during the first 300 miles.

During this period, avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration.

That is it, I kid you not. I varied throttle, avoided lugging and kept it under 7K RPM for the most part with an occasional 9K rpm blast.

[GeneJunkie]

Originally Posted by bob138

I know this may sound crazy but here you go:

Buell XB9sX 2006ish.

It has the passing power you want, can cruise at the speeds you want easy, won't feel like a downgrade in any way, has the upright seating position you want, and... gets high 40s MPG. Oh ya, and for some reason, insurance was cheap. I was stumped as to why, it may have been just my agent.

Once I can afford one I will be getting one

By the way. I went from a 99 GSXR750 to an EX500. The 500 was way more fun.

Bob

I know that Ryan's Buell XB12R had much cheaper insurance than other liter sport bikes. It has something to do with how they classify the bike, I think the 12R is listed as a sport touring so the insurance is lower.

[Godzilla35]

Originally Posted by Reswob

I'm sorry you're full of crap, my engine runs just fine. If Kawi ever wanted any of it's customers to be repeat customers, they wouldn't tell you to do something that would cause the bike to not work properly.

BTW, no car has a break in anymore...

My GT-R had a 2-stage break in and my roommate's e92 M3 also has a break in.

[Nemesis]

LA County or in the city of Los Angeles? If latter, don't get the 250 because you NEED a bike with good brakes if you're going to be riding in and about Los Angeles. Trust me!

Even if it's just the freeways, I strongly suggest you don't get the 250. Los Angeles traffic is like riding in hell--a lot of impatient cagers rushing to work & home. Not to mention uninsured motorists.

Get good ins. coverage.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by kawboyCAFE

you must weigh over 300 pounds. mine will do it in just under 6 seconds and i am 5'11", and about 200 pounds.

Nope, it won't. Keep in mind the speedo is off, so on most ninjettes it has to be reading 65 mph before you're going a true 60 mph.

[hoodadooda]

The ninja 250 let's me take it easy when I want and can easily be exciting with just a downshift and a little more throttle. I'm mostly into it for the noise and I love the sound it makes at 11-13k. It's my first bike and I don't have much to compare it too except for an old kz 400 that I could barely get running... even then it scared the crap out of me, it would put like it was about to cut off, then it'd be wide open in a split second. Sold it to some dude that looked like Willie Nelson, hope he has a better time with getting her roadworthy than I did.

The point is, I love my bike because it works and hasn't given me any trouble in traffic or on my favorite two lane roads. Being on two wheels is what it's about for me and the 250 is a great bike to do that with.

[Alex]

And you checked it how... And you're clocking the sub 6 seconds to 60 mph how...

[scotty]

Originally Posted by kawboyCAFE

that might be true with the stock front tire. i have put a 120/70 on mine and checked it, its spot on now.

I don't think the tire has much to do with the speed reading. I belive the reading comes from the hub. (I think) Warning-*Every bike will vary with actual speed reading*

[Alex]

A larger tire diameter would turn fewer times for the same distance on the road, so it would lower the indicated speed on the speedometer (on the same bike, compared to a smaller tire). A 120/70/17 would be slightly taller than a 110/70/17.

[kingkang204]

I have a 2006 R6 along with a 2010 ninja 250r and I can honestly say I have more fun on the 250 than the r6. Simply because the r6 I don't use nearly its full potential when I ride it (I find it really hard to turn, I'm assuming thats how most 600's are, and my tires are almost bad) but when I ride the 250 its really fun because you can just flick it around. I'm not sure if its that I just haven't ridden enough or what, but I've never ran into a situation on the freeway where I could not brake as a substitute for accelerating. I think you might miss the instantaneous power of the r6 seeing as how it has like 40 ish ft/lbs of torque while then ninja only has like 14? The Riding position is much more comfortable, although the r6's wasn't too bad. I've never ridden a more mild 600 eg fz6r but they look nice, although I think the styling of the ninja 250 looks better. Anyways I'd test a long test ride of each bike to really know what its like to ride it.
Happy Bike Hunting

[Postman]

Originally Posted by kingkang204

I have a 2006 R6 along with a 2010 ninja 250r and I can honestly say I have more fun on the 250 than the r6. Simply because the r6 I don't use nearly its full potential when I ride it (I find it really hard to turn, I'm assuming thats how most 600's are, and my tires are almost bad) but when I ride the 250 its really fun because you can just flick it around. I'm not sure if its that I just haven't ridden enough or what, but I've never ran into a situation on the freeway where I could not brake as a substitute for accelerating. I think you might miss the instantaneous power of the r6 seeing as how it has like 40 ish ft/lbs of torque while then ninja only has like 14? The Riding position is much more comfortable, although the r6's wasn't too bad. I've never ridden a more mild 600 eg fz6r but they look nice, although I think the styling of the ninja 250 looks better. Anyways I'd test a long test ride of each bike to really know what its like to ride it.
Happy Bike Hunting

The bad tires and suspension setup is gonna help you get that "hard to turn" feeling. Get new tires, check your tire pressure and set up your suspension for your weight.

Dont get me wrong, I love my 250, but my R6 is more comfortable to flick around and feels more planted(but VERY uncomfortable when you're not in a turn). The 250 is (marginally)less work to toss around though.

[backinthesaddleagain]

CBR turns easily, steep rake might be part of it.