EFI install walkthrough

[lc86]

Where did you get the o2 bungs welded?

I didn't, the guy I bought the kit from already had it done so we swapped exhaust headers.

Also, on your fuel hose, the blue stuff is not pressure rated so it would be a good idea to change the high pressure parts to a properly rated hose. You need 1/4" hose at the fuel pump or else it will leak.

I already changed out all of the hose with pressure rated stuff, I really just wanted to see it in action in all clear tubing to make sure it was working properly.

[flynjay]

@lc86 Did you use the ecotrons fuel injectors or did you get OEM?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by flynjay

@lc86 Did you use the ecotrons fuel injectors or did you get OEM?

He used the OEM throttle body which comes with 200 cc/min Kawasaki fuel Injectors. That's the only way to install the kit and do it right. He was up and running in only 5 hours.

[lc86]

He used the OEM throttle body which comes with 200 cc/min Kawasaki fuel Injectors. That's the only way to install the kit and do it right. He was up and running in only 5 hours.

Bingo

[flynjay]

Earlier in the threads there was discussion that the 200 cc/min injectors were borderline too big for the 250. How does your idle mixture look?

[lc86]

Originally Posted by flynjay

Earlier in the threads there was discussion that the 200 cc/min injectors were borderline too big for the 250. How does your idle mixture look?

I'm not sure I completely understand your question (I am kind of new to procal and fuel injection in general). I was under the impression that with the narrowband sensors it could only detect if it was rich or lean, I didn't realize you could look at the mixture value. If you tell me how I can go look it up, I have a laptop so its a matter of 2 minutes to walk to my garage and start it up and take a look.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by flynjay

Earlier in the threads there was discussion that the 200 cc/min injectors were borderline too big for the 250. How does your idle mixture look?

The BOSCH OEM injectors are better injectors. 200 cc is perfect for the Ninjette. Don't confuse g/m with cc/m - different languages. The ecotrons injectors are 170 cc/min injectors. The 200 cc/min injectors are better - especially on the top end.

If you ever need a replacement for whatever reason, they are the same identical injectors that are used in the ZX-6R.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by lc86

I'm not sure I completely understand your question (I am kind of new to procal and fuel injection in general). I was under the impression that with the narrowband sensors it could only detect if it was rich or lean, I didn't realize you could look at the mixture value. If you tell me how I can go look it up, I have a laptop so its a matter of 2 minutes to walk to my garage and start it up and take a look.

The O2 sensor will sense High voltage when rich and low voltage when lean. If the injectors are too large you will notice the o2 sensor always reading high. It's not really a big deal. The bike will just run a little rich at idle.

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The BOSCH OEM injectors are better injectors. 200 cc is perfect for the Ninjette. Don't confuse g/m with cc/m - different languages. The ecotrons injectors are 170 cc/min injectors. The 200 cc/min injectors are better - especially on the top end.

If you ever need a replacement for whatever reason, they are the same identical injectors that are used in the ZX-6R.

The problem is not on the top end. The 170 cc/min injectors are more than enough for the top end. The problem could be on the low end and minimum injector pulse width.

[shiftdrift06]

Great write up! Hopefully you can get the kit working reliable and find a good set-up. Keep us updated!

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by flynjay

The problem is not on the top end. The 170 cc/min injectors are more than enough for the top end. The problem could be on the low end and minimum injector pulse width.

technically with procal program is still programed for 170 or what ever it is. so its going to treat them so pluse wise. But my experience putting bigger injectors on a system that is made for smaller injectors can run it rich. Keep that in mind. I have done this on my cars temporary till i adjust the map, otherwise it might wash the cylinder walls and run it rich. but my jump was from 220 to 440cc so not that big of a difference. ill think u will be fine but ask Matt just in case.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

technically with procal program is still programed for 170 or what ever it is. so its going to treat them so pluse wise. But my experience putting bigger injectors on a system that is made for smaller injectors can run it rich. Keep that in mind. I have done this on my cars temporary till i adjust the map, otherwise it might wash the cylinder walls and run it rich. but my jump was from 220 to 440cc so not that big of a difference. ill think u will be fine but ask Matt just in case.

He should definitely should change the setting for injector size in procal and write the cal file to the ECU.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by flynjay

The problem is not on the top end. The 170 cc/min injectors are more than enough for the top end. The problem could be on the low end and minimum injector pulse width.

I don't think so. At slower RPM's there is more time for the injector to operate than at high RPM. At 10,000 RPM, the injector has literally only a few milliseconds to squirt enough fuel into the intake. The larger the capacity of the injector, the shorter the required pulse.

So if the injector is too small, you'll have power drops at high RPM. If its oversized, you'll have poor fuel economy because the minimum squirt is bigger too. All in all, the OEM injectors are simply better.

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I don't think so. At slower RPM's there is more time for the injector to operate than at high RPM. At 10,000 RPM, the injector has literally only a few milliseconds to squirt enough fuel into the intake. The larger the capacity of the injector, the shorter the required pulse.

So if the injector is too small, you'll have power drops at high RPM. If its oversized, you'll have poor fuel economy because the minimum squirt is bigger too. All in all, the OEM injectors are simply better.

It's not about having more time. It's that there is a minimum pulse width for the injectors and therefore a lower bound on how much fuel can be injected.

This is the previous post I was talking about.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by flynjay

It's not about having more time. It's that there is a minimum pulse width for the injectors and therefore a lower bound on how much fuel can be injected.

Worst case the engine will run a little rich at idle. The original ecotrons injectors were 110 cc/min injectors and they failed at high speed. The 170 cc/min injectors do much better. The OEM ones are 200 cc/min and are just right. They use 8 of them to power a Ninja ZX-6R.

Originally Posted by greg737

It's in the high-RPMs that the original Ecotrons 110cc/min injectors ran into problems: At 13,000 RPM the 4-stroke engine cycle (720 degrees of rotation, which is two full engine rotations) takes .00923 of a second (60/13000=0.00461*2=0.00923). Or you can phrase it as 9.23 milliseconds. That's all the time you have to get the needed fuel through the injector and on its way down the intake tract. And you have to include "injector opening time" of about 1 millisecond for the electrical signal from the ECU to cause the injector to open. So now you're down to working with 9.23 - 1.0 = 8.23 milliseconds and the 110cc/min injectors just didn't flow fuel fast enough. Maybe it was just barely too little, but aparently it was pretty noticable in some of the early installations.

If you have an OEM throttle body you want to trade for an ecotrons one, let me know.

[lc86]

The O2 sensor will sense High voltage when rich and low voltage when lean. If the injectors are too large you will notice the o2 sensor always reading high. It's not really a big deal. The bike will just run a little rich at idle.

That's kind of what I figured you meant. My O2 sensors register 449.8 as soon as it starts, so I don't think I have that issue (450 is where you want to be if I'm not mistaken)

Great write up! Hopefully you can get the kit working reliable and find a good set-up. Keep us updated!

It works great now, the only change I want to make is to make a better fuel line, which I will do as soon as I get fuel hose in the mail. I also might install a slicker looking switch for the rich/lean setting.

He should definitely should change the setting for injector size in procal and write the cal file to the ECU.

I haven't looked, but I'm using a cal file that Matt sent me for my configuration, so would I still need to change anything?

[greg737]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

One thing about the OEM TB "accessory" butterfly valves is that with a different ECU, they allow the bike to operate in a hybrid "ride by wire" mode. The box on the side next to the TPS is actually a servo box and is what moves the "accessory" butterfly.

With the Kawasaki system, it closes off the throttle to increase fuel economy. Without that, the ECU can only respond to the main throttle position.

The servo box and "accessory" butterfly are not needed for the ecotrons ECU. If space is at a premium, you can remove the servo as long as it doesn't interfere with the main TPS.

I envy you - all except for the part about having a suspended license. That part sucks.

In the OEM setup the secondary butterfly assembly acts (moves from nearly closed to full open) to maintain maximum air velocity. They don't limit or increase or in any other way change the amount of air entering the cylinders (that's the throttle & your right hand's job), they simply optimise the flow of air into the cylinders by keeping it at the highest possible velocity.

Basically the secondary butterfly assembly acts like the slides in a CV (constant velocity) carb like the U.S. EX-250 has.

The secondary butterfly assembly servomotor also acts as part of the bike's "automatic choke" system. For startup the ECU commands the secondary butterfly servomotor to rotate all the way around to "full-open" position which brings a small metal "cam" into contact with an arm that extends off the back of the throttle pulley. When this cam contacts the arm it causes the throttle to open slightly. In addition to this action the ECU also commands the correct amount of fuel, taking into account temperature and elevation (it figures out elevation by taking a "reference" reading on the Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor before the engine is cranked over. That's just another of those "pre-start" items that occur every time you key-switch the bike to "on")

[greg737]

I removed the secondary butterfly servomotor, the secondary butterfly plates and the driveshaft that connected them to the servomotor. And then I sealed the driveshaft hole with JB weld.

I also cut off the mounting point for the servomotor. Ended up looking like this:

[lc86]

And then I sealed the driveshaft hole with JB weld.

That's the main reason I didn't remove it, I didn't know of a good way to seal it and I figured it didn't hurt to leave it there. I didn't want to increase the likelihood of causing problems myself, but I might pull it off later and use some JB Weld to seal it.

[lc86]

Do you have a part number?

Unfortunately no, but this one is still available http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ninja-250r...#ht_500wt_1413

If no one else bids on it, I might just to have an extra one laying around :-)

You could get switches that are part of the perch

I already bought this one, I'll post how it turns out.

http://www.amazon.com/mod-smart-Illu...374470&sr=1-29

[Alex]

/linked from main DIY sticky

[lc86]

Originally Posted by Alex

/linked from main DIY sticky

Awesome, I will definitely try to keep it up to date. By next weekend I should have it completed with my final fuel line setup and spiffy green colored pushbutton. I will also keep updating so that there are long term results from such a setup (well, after I can drive again). Next on the list I am going to install an integrated taillight (hopefully it will be here next week) and I might get a new exhaust. I was thinking of an area-p setup but he said they couldn't weld on the bungs for me, so I might go with a Sportisi instead.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by greg737

I removed the secondary butterfly servomotor, the secondary butterfly plates and the driveshaft that connected them to the servomotor. And then I sealed the driveshaft hole with JB weld.

I also cut off the mounting point for the servomotor. Ended up looking like this:

Looks very clean and compact.

BTW, do you know of a reliable source for the injector connectors? That is, other than cutting them off a wiring harness.

[lc86]

Do you have a part number?

I found it, and now it's easier to search for it worldwide. Check it http://www.cornwallkawasaki.co.uk/sh... is #161630113
Here is an asian ebay auction for one http://translate.googleusercontent.c...CNEDOx1ZSk4Q4Q
Although I don't know if they ship worldwide.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by lc86

I already bought this one, I'll post how it turns out.

http://www.amazon.com/mod-smart-Illu...374470&sr=1-29

Awesome! Let us know if it works. That's the exact one I wanted to use. Where do you think you are going to put it? I was thinking below the seat in that circular plastic cover above the footpegs.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by trixter

Not to nitpick too much but isnt that closer to 10%? 65*10%=6.5. 65+6.5=71.5

Hey at least its better than you reported



You could get switches that are part of the perch

Ha i would say 10% but bc i have alot more fun with the performance its hard to really tell lol. bc i do the same two hour trips every weekend and its about 200 miles. When i had carbs i would get around 60-70, was 60 going up the mountain and 70 coming back well around 67. and wtih the efi kit i got about 65 going up but i was having a bit more fun and about straight 70 coming down the hill but i was speeding. Ill try to be more accurate and controlling and get some more accurate results. And plus when i traveled up elevations the carbs would lean out but would hardly run right and run really slow so probably saved gas on the carbs that way. efi kit just so much better

[lc86]

Originally Posted by setasai

Awesome! Let us know if it works. That's the exact one I wanted to use. Where do you think you are going to put it? I was thinking below the seat in that circular plastic cover above the footpegs.

So was I, since one of them fell out anyways it would work perfectly :-)
If all goes well, my EFI setup will be completely finished by next weekend and I'll update this thread.

[setasai]

Sweet. Once you get past the setup like the rest of us, it's all about tweaking the little things and taking logs. This sunday I am going to try out some new settings and try to take some logs while riding to see if we can work out some of the in operation kinks.

[lc86]

EDIT: it does not look like it is waterproof.

I doubt that it is, they make a stainless steel one but I wanted the one that glows green. I will tackle that issue when it comes, you can pretty much waterproof anything anyways. Since its not a switch you need to use all the time you can even keep the cover over the opening to protect the switch and just remove it when you want to switch.

[setasai]

Above the gauges behind the windscreen? That place is fairly protected from rain.

[mugenbb6]

Is the software useable by a tuner? Any plans for a dyno tune?

[lc86]

Originally Posted by mugenbb6

Is the software useable by a tuner? Any plans for a dyno tune?

You can, I'm definitely not an expert on using the software but a few other forum members have been playing with it a lot more me and know how to use it better. I am fine with it using the autolearning with the O2 sensors on the stock settings, but in the future I might try to find a dyno to use and play with it more. Probably after I upgrade the exhaust.

[Bigballsofpaint]

lc, that ebay link for the tb you said you would pick up if no one bid. I noticed someone bid on it and didnt know if it was you. I placed a bid and am gonna try to snag it, unless someone else really NEEDS it, no use in us all starting a bidding war.

[Bigballsofpaint]

if you need it ill make sure to not place anymore bids. I put a max of 55 pounds though, i was going to go higher tomorrow but i figure ill check the forums first. No point in driving the bid up, more will come along

[EMSRacer07]

jsut to let u know Matt (ecotrons) are selling them for 199 i beleive. I see that bid going past that. Its already over 100 bc shipping

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by trixter

the seller said 30GBP for shipping, (total price) 80GBP = $126, at 55 gbp+ship it would be $135 or so.

bidding isnt over u know. i can see that going over 70gbp bc of all the ppl on this site. Just saying. good luck bidding

[lc86]

bidding isnt over u know. i can see that going over 70gbp bc of all the ppl on this site. Just saying. good luck bidding

Yeah, sorry about that, I didn't think I might actually start a bidding war. If I see any more good deals on them I'll just snag it for a low price and lottery it off for cost, that way we don't artificially raise the value of them. Whoever does win though, make sure to ask for the injector plugs, I mean you could fake it I guess but it would make it a lot easier.

[lc86]

Awesome! Let us know if it works. That's the exact one I wanted to use. Where do you think you are going to put it? I was thinking below the seat in that circular plastic cover above the footpegs.

I got the switch today. I'm probably not going to install it until this weekend, but since I know it came up before about whether or not it was NO or NC, you can wire it either way. I am thinking of placing it on the instrument cluster, as for waterproofing it I think it will be fine with either a clear adhesive waterproof tape on it or if I get real motivated maybe a silicone cover.

[lc86]

I was planning on sniping them for any price under matts - my carbs are done

I hear that, my carbs were really getting on my nerves. I mean, I haven't been able to take my bike out yet, but I've been riding it around the parking lot and its so much more responsive.

Talked to a friend in Thailand havent heard back yet on availability

A friend in Thailand, you might have the hookup. If you read this thread (guess whos in it :-)

In Thailand Kawasaki Ninja 250R fuel-injection parts are very easy to find. The only negative side is that you not have online stores in Thailand where you can order the parts. So you probably have to do it by email..

http://www.motorcycle.in.th/forum/vi...showtopic=3296

[lc86]

the harness has bosch ev1 type connectors, you can order them on amazon, or they share the same as the zx6r so you can pick up an old injector harness off ebay for cheap

Good to know, I honestly never bothered to look because I had the harness anyways, I'll update my walkthrough.

[DJK]

Originally Posted by lc86

I hear that, my carbs were really getting on my nerves. I mean, I haven't been able to take my bike out yet, but I've been riding it around the parking lot and its so much more responsive.

A friend in Thailand, you might have the hookup. If you read this thread (guess whos in it :-)
http://www.motorcycle.in.th/forum/vi...showtopic=3296

I might be going to thailand this summer, if I can find them, I'll bring back a few throttle bodies