Ecotrons Kit & Vendor Info

[Jiggles]

@trixter all good theories! I wonder if we will ever know?

It wasn't a lie, I remember talking about what I found on this forum, however I PM'd it to a few ninjette members, I didn't post it on the forum. I realized my mistake and explained it.

That is awesome that you are 52 and have an A+ with the BBB, but we still don't know your name, where you are located, or what company you own.

[Super-Tune]

If you can remember, and I see that is an issue with you, this thread was started by you in reference to Ecotrons.

This thread is for any comments or concerns relating to anything except for the installation of the ecotrons kit.

Your so close to Matt, PM him and ask him for my web site.

[Scattcatt]

Why all the secrecy and being a pain? Just link it here. I'm assuming quite a bit will be cleared up here once that's in the open. Make life easier on us all, including your self.

[Jiggles]

Terrible memory, didn't take my vitamins today

I just have one more question for you Super Tune: Will you tell us who you are or the name of your business?

[Super-Tune]

Originally Posted by trixter

Since this thread is going all lawsuit happy "Your honor I object, facts not in evidence".

Maybe we were posting at the same time but your answer is pretty much answered right above your post.

In a nutshell

I tried some ECU's and software for an OEM application as advertised on his website
They had issues but was promised they would be resolved
Signed Matts contract to pre-pay for 100
Pre-paid for 100
Issues have not been resolved
Product has not been developed as promised
Matt has stopped replying to all contact

Legal action is being used to get my money back

My business name is not important to anyone here. I do not do 4 strokes, only 2 strokes so I am not here to sell you anything.

I have moved on and will be releasing my own 1,2,3 and 4 cylinder 2 stroke ECU's and software which by the way are fully EOBD and OBDII compliant.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by Super-Tune

Maybe we were posting at the same time but your answer is pretty much answered right above your post.

In a nutshell

I tried some ECU's and software for an OEM application as advertised on his website
They had issues but was promised they would be resolved
Signed Matts contract to pre-pay for 100
Pre-paid for 100
Issues have not been resolved
Product has not been developed as promised
Matt has stopped replying to all contact

Legal action is being used to get my money back

My business name is not important to anyone here. I do not do 4 strokes, only 2 strokes so I am not here to sell you anything.

I have moved on and will be releasing my own 1,2,3 and 4 cylinder 2 stroke ECU's and software which by the way are fully EOBD and OBDII compliant.

Then I guess you have no purpose here. Goodbye.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Super-Tune

I don't think this is what moderation was exactly suggesting.

But, since you did put this together and did receive a "Little extra discount" Can we send the kits back to you because Matt has stopped answering my e-mails and phone calls go unanswered. So much for his warranty and tech support.

Regarding cost: Another re-seller is purchasing the ECU for $75.00 from Matt (and he usually doubles his cost) and the TB's can be purchased in 100 lot for $800.00 out of China. There isn't $100.00 in the entire kit.

I am a member and came here because Matt has stopped answering my requests for help. I have more kits than the entire group buy purchased together. You would think someone that has purchased that many kits would get a little better treatment than that.

I hope the "little extra discount" you received for pushing this group buy without doing your homework or even installing a kit yourself is worth the fallout... I haven't threatened you anywhere on this forum so you may want to stick to facts.

[razorgamez]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

@Super-Tune honestly step back and take a look at what you're suggesting. You're suggesting that a forum member, who is completely independent of the business in question, is responsible for the owner of said business not answering your questions. Think about this for a second. Calm down. Jiggles isn't a bad guy. It's not his fault that the business owner isn't answering. Jiggles had nothing to profit from by this product not working. If you would actually use the search bar, which an experienced forum user with over 1000 posts would know about, and type in "EFI group buy", you would find every thread every written on the topic. Your logic is flawed in making this out to be Jiggles' fault. There is nothing suspicious about Jiggles' behavior. Please, take a step back and think about how you're coming off right now. I know you lost money on this, but frankly, no one ever forced you to buy this product. If you have an issue with the business owner, take it up with him. If that doesn't work, take it up with a lawyer. Don't point the finger at every ninjette.org member you can possibly take down. Jiggles had nothing to do with you losing money.

Honestly after reading the whole thread, I agree with @choneofakind ... having probs with matt or whoever involved is one thing....but releasing all that anger and frustration on Jiggles because he arranged the GB and because Matt (I am guessing the user: Ecotrons) is replying to this thread is kinda a low blow... my as someone whos not involved in this fiasco (un-biased point of view)

[Jiggles]

It's quite alright, Super Tool (@trixter lol) has proven to be unreasonable and detrimental to the forum so he can't reply here anymore

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by trixter

Nice sales plug

Not really. How many people on this forum would have a need for a 2 stroke ECU?

Originally Posted by Jiggles

It's quite alright, Super Tool (@trixter lol) has proven to be unreasonable and detrimental to the forum so he can't reply here anymore

I know the guy blew up the forum and made it a lot harder for me to sell my kit, but for the record, I am very much opposed to censorship. He's obviously very angry at Matt, but one thing for sure is that a business should never allow their customers to get into that state in the first place.


He did expose a lot more faults with the kit that I didn't know about. Not only that, but because he didn't have a problem with the ECU, that tells me that its probably a good one in spite of my concerns.

While I do share his concerns about the quality of the kit, I don't have any hard feelings toward Matt at this time.

[massacremasses]

That was fun.


I just lol'd because @Jiggles was getting bashed for no real reason, and it was like more people were suppose to be mad at him. Suppose to be mad at an active member from what a new guy we have no idea who he is says... lol Thats logical...

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

That was fun.


I just lol'd because @Jiggles was getting bashed for no real reason, and it was like more people were suppose to be mad at him. Suppose to be mad at an active member from what a new guy we have no idea who he is says... lol Thats logical...

Anyone who can't spell VENDOR should be bashed.

Looks like Alex fixed it though.

[setasai]

This thread really made me laugh. It's like the forum version of Jerry Springer except without the trashy chicks.

[etiainen]

We need @Alex to be Steve Wilkos

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by setasai

This thread really made me laugh. It's like the forum version of Jerry Springer except without the trashy chicks.

I feel cheated.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Anyone who can't spell VENDOR should be bashed.

Looks like Alex fixed it though.

Ok we could make fun of him for that...

[Alex]

Originally Posted by etiainen

We need @Alex to be Steve Wilkos

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

For the record, I am very much opposed to censorship.

Are you also against libel and slander? Because I am quite tired of being falsely accused of wrong doing.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by trixter

It is not really censorship anyway, he is free to go and create his own thread and post whatever he wants there.

Ordinarily, I would agree with that, but at the insistence of Alex, this thread was created for the purpose of discussing ecotrons and the problems with the group buy. If he were to create a new one, Alex would merge the two and since this one was here first, Jiggles would own the combined thread too.

Although super tune wasn't in the group buy, he apparently does have past business with ecotrons.

As far as accusations of libel, I am not sure what that is all about.

However, I will agree that a lot of what I read could have been handled by PM's.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by trixter

I do not see the censorship in keeping a group buy thread about the group buy and not mixing in other completely unrelated to the group buy purchases.

He wasn't part of our group buy, but he did allegedly buy ecotrons 2 cycle kits. I'm assuming that he was searching for ecotrons and found our group buy thread.

THIS thread is not solely about the group buy. Its about ecotrons. That is something he does have a stake in.

He feels that ecotrons shafted him on some kind of business deal.

And if you are still interested in buying a kit, mine is for sale. It comes with a throttle cable bracket prefabricated for top mounted injectors. Everything else is the same. There is no need for a second group buy until mine is sold.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by trixter

I disagree, especially since the second group buy would be for a gen2 kit which is currently in the works. I am told this gen2 kit would be available in a few weeks time.

Where did you hear this? We haven't been told anything. But if there are upgrades sent out, they will be included in the one I am selling.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Where did you hear this? We haven't been told anything. But if there are upgrades sent out, they will be included in the one I am selling.

Wait you want someone to buy your kit before they can have a group buy on version2?.....

I dont think thats how it works....

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by trixter

I dont know if upgrades are going to be sent out or not. I am not part of that deal. I have been talking to Matt about another group buy and asked specifically if he planned on correcting some of the issues raised and he said yes.

He's talking about adding barbs to the fuel pressure regulator. Barbs are good, but not a critical problem with the kit. The clamps can be safety wired. He also mentioned the price is going up to pay for those barbs.

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Wait you want someone to buy your kit before they can have a group buy on version2?.....

I dont think thats how it works....

Why do we need a group buy when there are people trying to unload theirs from the previous group buy? There is no "version 2" of the kit. Matt has been gradually making changes every time he sells one. The changes are always fairly minor. If you wait a few years, and Matt is still in business, you might get a pretty good kit. Right now, the only thing that is seriously wrong is the throttle body. Check out this link to a guy that bought his kit second hand (not from me) and also bought an OEM Kawasaki throttle body. He had it installed and running in only 5 hours.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

He's talking about adding barbs to the fuel pressure regulator. Barbs are good, but not a critical problem with the kit. The clamps can be safety wired. He also mentioned the price is going up to pay for those barbs.



Why do we need a group buy when there are people trying to unload theirs from the previous group buy? There is no "version 2" of the kit. Matt has been gradually making changes every time he sells one. The changes are always fairly minor. If you wait a few years, and Matt is still in business, you might get a pretty good kit. Right now, the only thing that is seriously wrong is the throttle body. Check out this link to a guy that bought his kit second hand (not from me) and also bought an OEM Kawasaki throttle body. He had it installed and running in only 5 hours.

i had mine running in 7 hours. only problems i had was the wiring since i had to re wire mine since its an older bike. its not all the TB.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

i had mine running in 7 hours. only problems i had was the wiring since i had to re wire mine since its an older bike. its not all the TB.

I haven't heard any complaints about the ECU - would you agree that its OK?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Why do we need a group buy when there are people trying to unload theirs from the previous group buy? There is no "version 2" of the kit. Matt has been gradually making changes every time he sells one. The changes are always fairly minor. If you wait a few years, and Matt is still in business, you might get a pretty good kit. Right now, the only thing that is seriously wrong is the throttle body. Check out this link to a guy that bought his kit second hand (not from me) and also bought an OEM Kawasaki throttle body. He had it installed and running in only 5 hours.

seen it.

I see everything

[setasai]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I haven't heard any complaints about the ECU - would you agree that its OK?

Nothing wrong with the ECU. Some have had issues with the wiring harness because the pregens from before a certain year were a little different from the later pregens.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I haven't heard any complaints about the ECU - would you agree that its OK?

Yep been great. No issues with that or the software. i like using procal its so cool ha. And like ^^^ he said i just had to figure out the CDI wires that was it. Matt helped alot

[leed]

All this for Fuel Injection? I know carbs suck, but not that much!

[setasai]

Heh well for me it was more of a "because I can" type of decision. Carbs do suck but not enough to purposely swap it out to FI without some other motivator. My motivator was to see what it would be like and to do something unique with it.

Was the install frustrating? Yup it definitely was but I enjoyed it so it's all kosher.

[n4mwd]

In my case, I'm down, but not out. If I don't sell my kit, I might start over with a better throttle body - possibly an OEM one. There just aren't that many out there to get, but there are other throttle bodies that might work.

Why do it you ask? Increased reliability and fuel economy. Those are my main goals. Without those, I stay with the carbs.

[setasai]

What's so unreliable with carbs? I've never had problems with it. Even left the bike unused for a month and it started right up.

If you find another throttlebody that might work, that would be our perfect ticket.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by setasai

What's so unreliable with carbs? I've never had problems with it. Even left the bike unused for a month and it started right up.

If you find another throttlebody that might work, that would be our perfect ticket.

The only bad thing about them is that they are quite complex mechanically and subject to mechanical failure. Mine have been acting up for some time and I'm only getting about 55 mpg now. It should be around 70 mpg on the pregen. I used to get that, but not recently. I think a properly working EFI would solve the problem.

As a side note, I have just recently found out that the UK EFI bike also has an electronic spedometer sensor into the ECU. Not having that input may be part of the problem.

[leed]

Actually, I think you may find that there are less to carbs than EFI. Carbs have very few moving parts, the issue is that jets that have moving fluid can get gummed and clogged. When it comes tuning them, it cannot be done on a bench or on a dyno without disassembling them for adjustments. At home, it's complicated and complex. In a shop with the appropriate tools, it's pretty simple to jet correctly (though very few of this have this advantage without the cost!).

EFI, on the other hand, is in general more involved, but by adding control systems (or maps, really), it makes it easier. I suppose it takes the mechanics out of it by replacing incremental parts with an externally adjustable one (via electronics, essentially). It does, however, make way for complications when you have electrical gremlins, and if you haven't found out, it has quite a few more wires than carburetors tend to have!

Carburetors are the approximation of a curve, which is usually pretty good for the most part, but they tend to fail to extrapolate accurately when it gets cold or when we make changes. EFI are more user friendly on the surface (which is usually all we need to see), but otherwise more complex in structure than carbs. None the less, my next bike will be FI, no doubt! But it will also likely be a track only bike...

My main concern was all of this angst and trouble being tossed around in this thread for an upgrade that (for me) would be over a 1/7th of the cost of the bike. I do, however, hope you can get it worked out as I very much understand the advantages.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

The only bad thing about them is that they are quite complex mechanically and subject to mechanical failure. Mine have been acting up for some time and I'm only getting about 55 mpg now. It should be around 70 mpg on the pregen. I used to get that, but not recently. I think a properly working EFI would solve the problem.

A) mechanically complex? there's 2 things that move; the floats and the slides.

B) 70 is really hopeful for realistic riding. I only got 70 once, and that was from puttering around in 6th gear right when I got the bike. I consistently get 62 mpg with varied riding.

If your carbs were so bad, it would have been cheaper (and more effective) to get take your bike to a shop and have the carbs checked out than to go with the EFI kit. Heck, you could have even purchased a whole new set of carbs and saved like $400, and you would have had a working bike with about an hour worth of work.

[n4mwd]

Carbs have all sorts of little passageways this way and that. Vacuum diaphragms that leak. And a lot of little parts that can break. They are simpler in terms of wiring, because they have none.

In my case, my mileage has been sucking for a while now. A friend also has a pregen and we will go on a ride and his mileage is still 70 mpg. I smell gas when I first start up so my guess is that the float is sticking somehow. It actually runs pretty good which is why I haven't rebuilt the carbs already.

BTW, if anyone is considering getting the OEM TB from the UK, I think I found a source for the injector connectors. As far as I can tell, they are called BOSCH EV1 connectors and can be found on numerous cars in the junkyard. They can also be purchased on Amazon.

[choneofakind]

Yes I know the carbs have little passageways, but mechanically, they're very simple things.

Check your petcock over blaming the carbs. Mine leaks and that's why I smell gas. I have a new one I'll be replacing it with in spring.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Check your petcock over blaming the carbs. Mine leaks and that's why I smell gas. I have a new one I'll be replacing it with in spring.

I've heard other people say that as well, but when I tested it, I could find no leaks and the vacuum diaphragm was working fine. I hooked the vacuum port up to a syringe and could control the gas flow perfectly. I haven't let it sit overnight to see if it drips, but I don't think it will.

There is also the issue of a slightly rough idle. Not bad, but its been doing that since i got it. The previous owner said that he let it sit out in the rain for 2 years. There was no mention of him ever rebuilding the carbs. That was 10,000 miles ago.

But just so you know, we have gotten off topic a bit here. We are supposed to be bashing Jiggles.

[Jiggles]

@n4mwd valve adjustment?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

@n4mwd valve adjustment?

Two of them so far. Third coming up soon.