November 5th, 2010, 09:02 PM | #41 |
Sleeper Central
Name: Chadwick
Location: Bemidji
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): CBR400RR KZ400 CB350 CB500FOUR FZR400 FZR600 Ninja 250 Ninja 500 R6 Posts: 5
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Much appreciated.
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May 18th, 2011, 07:11 PM | #42 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jason
Location: McMinnville Oregon
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 kawasaki ninja 250r Posts: 20
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Quote:
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May 18th, 2011, 07:42 PM | #43 |
Sleeper Central
Name: Chadwick
Location: Bemidji
Join Date: Oct 2010 Motorcycle(s): CBR400RR KZ400 CB350 CB500FOUR FZR400 FZR600 Ninja 250 Ninja 500 R6 Posts: 5
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As far as I can tell, no ninja 500 engine is a direct fit into any ninja 250 chassis. I've done a 1990 500 engine into a 2009 250 chassis. Definitely not a direct fit. Some people may tell you that it may be a bolt-in affair, but they most likely haven't done it. There should be pictures posted on this thread, but if you need to see more, lemme know.
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May 18th, 2011, 09:13 PM | #44 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jason
Location: McMinnville Oregon
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 kawasaki ninja 250r Posts: 20
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Thanks for replying to my question. If doing this swap, what are the things I would have to change on the stock 250r set-up to get the ex500 running. (Electronic/electrical/gauges/sensors/cables/etc.) Or would everything just reconnect to th ex500. (I doubt it will, but hope).
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May 19th, 2011, 05:43 AM | #45 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Bob
Location: Centreville va
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 1991 EX500 , 2009 250r Posts: 130
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Quote:
Do any of the mounting points bolt up? I know that the frames are different so you need to create mounting points for the front of the ex500 motor. Also for anyone else thinking about this, the 1st generation ex500 motors have bad flywheels and cam chain tensioners. So if you are looking for a motor to try this out with try to get a newer motor, otherwise you're in for another ~$130 worth of parts to upgrade the 1st gen motor. Bob |
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May 19th, 2011, 10:52 AM | #46 |
DUCEATR
Name: Dan
Location: El Paso, Texas
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): RVT1000R Posts: 628
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There isnt a replacement for displacement (negating boost or n20) to be as cliche as possible. even with significant mods the 250 motor will be just what it is, a capable motor in its class.
Adding a 500 motor is logical for those who want to play with the bike. People always told me I should swap in a 4V 4.6 or buy a Cobra when I was chasing the 600rwhp mark in my Mustang. I sure could have but I wanted to do it with my car and my motor. I succeded and it was very rewarding and informative. The same goes here. I would really like to see a kit developed and a streamlined process created to allow this to be a common step for those looking to up the ante without stepping onto a new bike. I would love to start this if I had a spare Ninja and a motor as I have everything I would need to accomplish this. Matt & Chadwick, are the mounts used easy to manufacture? What about some other details about the swap? I'm sure with a collaborative effort a kit could come together that you could sell. As for me I would only do this to say I did. I always have something else with more power if I desire to use it. The Ninja is perfect for what it is and what I use it for. |
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May 19th, 2011, 04:04 PM | #47 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Jason
Location: McMinnville Oregon
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2008 kawasaki ninja 250r Posts: 20
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I agree with u 100% darC. The mods that I know of for are little 250r's are some what of a joke compared to what's out there for the guys with bigger bikes. I would never dream of getting a different bike just because of mods, I love my bike. You always hear people say, " if u want more power just buy a bigger bike". Well were is the fun in that. When u own a machine, and u do what no one else has done to it, its a truly amazing feeling. This type of breed of people died a long time ago.... to bad. I want a 250r ninja with a 500 engine, not a new bike! Dont get me wrong, I love the 250r motor. But mine died after 6,000 miles from water damage (long story, my fault... I had a dumb moment) so why not a better time to try this mod out. I'm on a mission go make this happen, wish me luck. Anyone with knowledge on this swap please speak up and post, I would appreciate it.
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May 19th, 2011, 05:44 PM | #48 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: HECTOR
Location: Bronx NY
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): Red 08 250r Posts: 218
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+1
Quote:
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http://www.nycsportbikeriders.com/ Jetkit,15/43,HID |
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May 22nd, 2011, 02:49 AM | #49 |
ratlab
Name: reese
Location: tracy, ca
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): gsxr1000,R3x2,RC390,FZ07,XR100 Posts: 132
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each to their own but i have a 200 hp bike and i'm really digging the slowness of the 250r-it's kind of liberating -i 'm throwing a few go fast things at it but only a few people in the world can get the most out of a superbike-it's a blast wringing that little bike out and making the most of your riding ability -i'm, new to the 250r and maybe i will sick of the lack of power ,but right now its a blast
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June 19th, 2011, 09:21 AM | #50 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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just bought new pistons for the bike, it will take her up a little, just 265cc, and im getting the compression upped, and port the engine at the same time~
those are the new pistons~ just picked them up on saturday. the 1st bike that my mechanic is working on should be done mid of this week with the new piston, and then he will work on my bike. hope it works out good im so so so tempted to buy the CR carbs... but it costs like $650 here tho while on sudko's website they are selling i think the same one for like $455, aff, damn import taxes into this country...
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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June 19th, 2011, 09:53 AM | #51 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Alexandre
Location: Montreal
Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 09 SE Posts: 172
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Quote:
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June 19th, 2011, 11:53 AM | #52 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Tai
Location: Englewood
Join Date: Jun 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja, 71 Honda Cafe Posts: 41
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subscribed.
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June 19th, 2011, 05:26 PM | #53 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
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the piston diameter is slightly bigger, thus the slight increase in volume.
means that they need to bore up the cylinders a little. so its not just going to be a plug and play replacement. regarding the carb, these CR carbs dont use a vacuum slide which has a slight delay in the reaction time to raise the sliders. when you open the throttle up, it controls the slides directly, giving a more responsive feel. i believe RacerX is using a CR carb, not sure what size though, maybe the CR31? or one of the bigger ones~
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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June 19th, 2011, 06:26 PM | #54 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawmeracchi 350 2010 Project X Posts: A lot.
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I am running the CR31s .They are great .Sooo easy to tune.Jet or needle changes are done in seconds.The lack of a vacuum slide means you have to ride like a race bike should be ridden .Smooth throttle inputs .You can't just wack the throttle below 7000 rpm.But when the engine is boiling and you run through. The gears at 10000 rpm plus. That is when these carbs shine.
I have a cylinder that is damaged from rust.The bike sat out in the rain before I got it. I was looking at JE Pistons. They make forged 12.5 to 1 over size pistons that bring it up to 265cc . I don't know the cost . |
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June 19th, 2011, 07:18 PM | #55 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
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@ Eric, just in case your interested, these pistons cost me just under $90 for the pair. (excluding the rings, which i need to buy separately).
im not sure what the JE ones cost, but if your interested to experiment around with an old left over engine, i could send you a pair of these to try out. they are locally made here in indonesia i believe. but supposedly using decent alloy. good enough that the OEM Kawasaki is endorsing them as an original part. the mechanic im using also told me that this brand is quite good, he has used them on race bikes (mopeds, lol) and they hold out the thrashing they get really well. ive asked him about bore up, and/or increased compression ratio since a while, and he has told me to wait till this company releases the piston, since the other locally available brands are not good enough (locally made) or way too expensive (imports like JE i guess). ill post a dyno graph of the other ninja that he is still working on once he reassembles it and does a final run. im expecting that its possibly gonna be over 35 Hp if all goes well regarding the CR carbs... drool... sigh~ drool... i think ill have to buy it and not tell my GF how much it costs. otherwise shes gonna think ive gone even crazy-er! btw, Eric, did you pay the Sudko website price over there? like $455 for your CR31's? i wonder if i can find a victim thats coming back to bali soon who could maybe hand carry it, lol... would save me almost $200! did your package include all the required parts to tune the carbs? i am not really familiar with CR carbs, but im guessing they also have different main jets, pilot jets, needle positions etc like the vacuum carbs? thnx in advance for the info~ and yeah, i think i did ask you about these carbs in the past on another thread, but im terrible with the search engine on the forums, lol and i might be asking some different questions now too
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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June 27th, 2011, 08:49 PM | #56 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
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when i went back to the mechanic last week (haven't started work on my bike yet) i compared the original piston from the bike hes working on now, with the new ones i bought, there is like a 1 or was it 2 mm increase in the diameter, and the top end/head of the piston comes out more, which creates the higher compression ratio compared to the stock piston. plus the fact that there is also a slightly larger volume in the actual piston chamber.
i wonder what compression ratio this will push it up to. there seems to be a shortage on good piston rings here at the moment. they had to keep delaying the other bike because they couldnt find piston rings, and now they are still waiting to find me a set... sigh~ was really curious to find out what kind of improvement (i hope there will be some, lol) i will get with this mod + porting, etc. gotta sit tight and wait for these piston rings now
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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June 28th, 2011, 12:12 AM | #57 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.
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Hope it all works out well for ya. DYNO THAT BABY. Im interested.
I wont tear the motor apart for 15cc's. BUT 15cc a piston would get me thinking. Give me a nice little bump in compression and a new cam or 2, and some head work and we would be talking turkey. Doubt theres room for that kind of bore in the motor, but I can dream anyway. Imagine a ninja 280.
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Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket |
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June 29th, 2011, 12:10 AM | #58 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
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well the piston i was hoping to use is a FAIL, lol....
thankfully it was tested on some other bike and not mine. after 2 or 3 weeks of messing about and trying different settings, alll they were able to gain out of these new pistons is a -2Hp (yeah, it lost power, rofl). they expect that its due to the low quality material used... since as far as the shape is concerned, it should have been good. bigger bore (64mm instead of 62) and a slightly bigger head, increasing the compression ratio. anyhow, im sure there is lots and lots of research required to be able to build pistons that gain power over stock, something that this manufacturer obviously doesnt have enough of. the mechanic then confirmed with three other workshops that they were getting similar results using these pistons (ie. drop of power). soo.... i guess ill just leave the pistons alone, and get the engine ported and re-tuned for now, lol that should already add some ponies into the small stampede. now im looking into the JE pistons. and wonder.... what piston would be best to use out of their available ninja 250 pistons (they have 5 to choose from!) 282cc... mmm...mmm...mm... anyone know if that is possible to bore up with the original sleeve? or does it need a totally new/replaced piston sleve thinggy? lol, forgot what its called back to square one, research time, yey!
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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July 17th, 2011, 01:21 AM | #59 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
Join Date: Apr 2011 Motorcycle(s): white 300 :D Posts: A lot.
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VROOOM vrooom >.> |
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July 20th, 2011, 12:09 AM | #60 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
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JE pistons informed me that we need to replace the sleeves if you want to use the 282cc pistons, so im gonna avoid doing that and keep the original sleeve, and probably go with the 265cc pistons. at least the compression ratio will go up to 12.5:1, which would already be an improvement on its own.
next step~ buying it and getting it brought half way across the globe to lil Bali, hehe PS, eric told me he is using the 13:1 compression pistons, with the stock bore. no wonder hes able to pull off those sweet speed records although i think he went a little trigger happy with the NOS a couple runs back and brought the forged piston to its melting point, hehe...
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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July 20th, 2011, 12:40 AM | #61 |
Ninjette wanabe :D
Name: Ruslan
Location: San Jose
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make sure keep us up to date ;]
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VROOOM vrooom >.> |
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July 20th, 2011, 03:46 AM | #62 | |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16
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Quote:
That means I ran 122 with 10 hp on the left side and an engine damaging dry shot to the right side. I have it sorted now and am rebuilding the engine with 13 to 1 JE pistons again. But I will also do a LOT of small things to prevent detonation. Sorry for the thread jack. |
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July 20th, 2011, 08:20 AM | #63 | |
ModMy250.com
Name: Tri
Location: St, Louis
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
I think it's best in the end if you do get the porting done first and get it tuned. That way, you will know how much each component affects the bike. If you get it dyno-tuned, then you'll be able to tell if the new displacement and CR made a good difference or not. Same with the porting.
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The www.ModMy250.com guy |
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July 20th, 2011, 05:04 PM | #65 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.
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There is a 282 kit. at 12.5 to 1
Im thinking......... when the bottom end lets go. I would rather have a 13 to 1 but Im sure you can grab a bit more with a thin gasket. 12.75 to 1 Who is making cams??? anyone making performance rocker arms??
__________________________________________________
Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket |
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July 20th, 2011, 05:04 PM | #66 |
ninjette.org Monkey Spank
Name: Kevin
Location: Illinois
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250R Track-Bike Woodcraft clip-ons and rearsets FZ-6 track bike Posts: A lot.
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Aint that perrrrrty
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Black 250R Full Area P QC Dyno Jet Kit 100 main 41T Rear Sprocket |
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July 20th, 2011, 05:50 PM | #67 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16
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You can't get thinner head gaskets. But you can have .010 cut from the block. I do not cut the head because of the cumbusion chamber shape.You need to adjust the cams timing if ypu change the distance from crank to cam though.
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July 21st, 2011, 07:54 AM | #68 |
ModMy250.com
Name: Tri
Location: St, Louis
Join Date: Sep 2010 Motorcycle(s): 2009 Ninja 250R, 2005 R6 Posts: A lot.
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You could always just have JE cut custom pistons to the CR you want.
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The www.ModMy250.com guy |
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July 21st, 2011, 08:06 AM | #69 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
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They come in 12, 12.5 and13 to 1.JE will custom make you anything you want I think it is sets of four for 800.00 dollars
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July 24th, 2011, 06:37 AM | #70 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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Just got a set of 13 to 1 pistons From JE.
I shot some photos of the stock piston in one side and the high compression pistons side by side. The ruff surface of the stock piston is because it is a cast piston. That means they poured aluminum into a mold then when it cooled they remove it and machine the ring groves and pin hole. This process makes perfectly good pistons. But not pistons capable of high pressure or temp. When they say forged pistons .That means they pushed the aluminum under pressure into a tube . This link is long but interesting . How they make pistons. 300 dollars a set with pins and rings seems like a good deal after watching how much work goes into them. http://youtu.be/bPF7jdPyQaU |
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July 24th, 2011, 06:49 AM | #71 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
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so so shiny.... my preciouussss....
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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August 20th, 2011, 02:16 PM | #72 | |
Ninjette wanabe :D
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Quote:
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VROOOM vrooom >.> |
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August 20th, 2011, 09:49 PM | #73 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
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the piston is in my LA office, but waiting for my colleague to come to bali to hand carry it when he comes in September.
gonna port the engine soon first tho. waiting for my brothers bike to get fixed 1st, so i can use that while my bike is away. wanna see the step by step improvement~ i just noticed that they are about to release a 13.5:1 compression piston for both the 265cc and 285cc pistons. wonder how they would be with high octane fuel!
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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August 20th, 2011, 10:44 PM | #74 |
ninjette.org member
Name: nick
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Join Date: Jun 2010 Motorcycle(s): ninja 250 Posts: 168
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I just want to point out that Burt Munro had cast piston, and his bike was the fastest indian in the world.
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August 21st, 2011, 01:09 PM | #75 |
ninjette.org member
Name: jayvee
Location: marikina, philippines
Join Date: Oct 2009 Motorcycle(s): ninja250r 2009model Posts: 30
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@wayan please let me know what happen when ur bike is finished already, i might get the same piston that u get...
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August 21st, 2011, 01:19 PM | #76 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Eric
Location: Iowa City
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MOTM - Sep '18, Feb '16
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The last for years at Bonniville Burt used Nitro . He went through a all his pistons.then went home. Sad really. But he would not take advice from Marty Dickerson on the mixtrue or the pistons.
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September 11th, 2011, 01:55 AM | #77 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
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finally got the parts! wow they look BLING!
but, i still havent gotten around to getting the engine ported, since i wanna get that done 1st to see what the gains are and what the bike can put out with the stock pistons, before upgrading to the 265cc's will keep updating once i get some progress and results
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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September 11th, 2011, 05:20 PM | #79 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Wayan
Location: Bali - Indonesia
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its the "big bore" if you wanna call it that, lol +2mm diameter over the standard, @ 12.5:1 (265cc)
i saw on their website last time i looked that there are both the 265 and 285cc's coming out that will have a 13.5:1 compression, which were not available when i bought these. although i think i would still have chosen the 12.5:1 even if i did have a choice, since the fuel octane in this country isnt great. W.
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Kawasaki Z250, Bored up to 300cc with 12.8 CR, 41hp at wheel 27nm torque, Two bros full exhaust with DB killer Dynojet Power Commander V, KnN Open filter, intake and exhaust ported, Puig Windshield |
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