October 9th, 2016, 08:03 AM | #41 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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October 9th, 2016, 08:07 AM | #42 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Brandon
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Not against stock, I didn't have it long enough before I did the mods. It gets around 45mpg on average now, if I stay outta the throttle.
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October 9th, 2016, 08:54 AM | #43 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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You might try going a little leaner in the low-midrange area. Mine's dead stock and I get 65-70 mpg. What do your plugs look like?
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October 9th, 2016, 09:13 AM | #44 | |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Quote:
Regarding the temps of the exhaust manifolds, what do those tell you? I seemed to be getting about 40-50 degrees hotter at idle on one, but my IR thermometer is the EL cheapo version. I assume it'll tell you if one cylinder is running lean, it'll be hotter. I guess I need to spring for the entire jet kit. I have no idea what jets are in there, I couldn't find markings on them. They have obviously been monkied with because the slot is munged up where somebody used a small slotted screwdriver. I know I can't even try to fine tune until I get that proper clip in place... right now I would be wasting my time. Anyway I'm just happy to have made progress and (hopefully) found the main problem. While I had the bike apart I replaced every missing screw/bolt- there were about 10. Most were from the fairings, but the coolant resevior was missing one as was the fuse panel assembly and the gas tank (the back bolts near the battery). I also put dielectric grease on every part of the ignition system and all other plugs I could get to without much trouble. The plugs going to the coils were pretty loose, so I squeezed them with some plier to tighten them back up. |
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October 9th, 2016, 09:21 AM | #45 |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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@Bk834 which dynajet kit do you have? I have to assume from the mods that I have the stage 1-3 on mine. I would assume (I have to assume) he put the stage 1 jets in, as I don't have a pod filter and the stage 3 setup would prolly run me too rich. I was reading the dynajet instructions and for my setup they recommend the 98 mains and the clip on the3rd from the top. This is the "stage 1" setup.
For the pod filters, and a aftermarket straightpipe they suggest the clip on the 4th from the top and running a 114 main. That was the "stage 3" setup. This is assuming a similarity between the factory pro and dynajet kits. |
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October 9th, 2016, 09:27 AM | #46 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Most likely it's just carb idle synch. The hot one's cylinder is doing more work at idle.
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October 9th, 2016, 09:53 AM | #47 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
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October 9th, 2016, 09:58 AM | #48 | |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Quote:
Here are some main jet conversions between manufactures- Width------Keihin # -- DynoJet # --- Mikuni # 0.0350---- 92.5--------- 92----------- 86.3 0.0360---- 95----------- 94----------- 88.1 0.0370---- 97.5--------- 96----------- 90.0 0.0380---- 100---------- 98----------- 91.9 0.0390---- 102.5------- 100---------- 93.8 0.0400---- 105--------- 102---------- 95.6 0.0410---- 107.5------- 104---------- 97.5 0.0420---- 110--------- 106---------- 99.4 0.0430---- 112.5------- 108--------- 101.3 0.0440---- 115--------- 110--------- 103.1 0.0450---- 117.5------- 112--------- 105.0 0.0460---- 120--------- 114--------- 106.9 0.0470---- 122.5------- 116--------- 108.8 0.0480---- 125--------- 118--------- 110.6 0.0490---- 127.5------- 120--------- 112.5 0.0500---- 130--------- 122--------- 114.4 Think there's even a factory pro conversion table somewhere, Just couldn't find it. =) |
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October 9th, 2016, 10:05 AM | #49 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
Dynojet...not so much... |
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October 9th, 2016, 10:06 AM | #50 | |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Quote:
One carb is the "master carb" and the other one syncs to it. In other words when you adjust the sync screw, you are only adjusting the butterfly in one carb to match the other, which is static. I looked at the static one, and noticed there is a really good way to tell if they are matched because of some small pinholes (vacuum ports, I assume) in the body. The static, or master carb has one hole fully exposed and another right behind it halfway covered. These pinholes are tiny, such as a quarter to half turn of the adjuster screw will either fully expose or fully hide the hole. So I just lined the other one up the same way. One hole fully exposed and the other half covered. When I ever so slightly touch the throttle, the butterflies line up at the edge of the hole. When I release the throttle they both line up halfway covering said hole. My girl has much better eyes than me, I had her look at it and confirm. =) Sound like a reasonable approach? I would much prefer using a feeler guage if anyone knows that method... Last futzed with by sickopsycho; October 9th, 2016 at 10:09 AM. Reason: gramatical errers lol |
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October 9th, 2016, 10:11 AM | #51 | |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Quote:
She keeps seeing me put money into it and shaking her head lol... We just got a joint checking account, too, so it's not like I can get it by her. |
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October 9th, 2016, 11:19 AM | #52 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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I've been known to synch my H2's idle by feeling the three pipes' exhaust pulses, other times by checking head pipe temperatures. Usually exhaust pulses. The crossover in the stock Ninja 250 system blurs that a little, but it would still be a quick check to see if they're close.
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October 9th, 2016, 11:31 AM | #53 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
Name: Hernan
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Quote:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/How_do_...carburetors%3F
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October 10th, 2016, 07:42 AM | #54 | ||
ninjette.org member
Name: Brandon
Location: Monroe, NC
Join Date: Aug 2016 Motorcycle(s): 07 Ninja 250 Cafe Racer Posts: 55
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Quote:
Quote:
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October 10th, 2016, 08:05 AM | #55 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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October 10th, 2016, 02:06 PM | #56 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Brandon
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Don't ask me. That's the consensus according to el goog.
Either way 45mpg isn't hurting me any. That's over twice what I've gotten in any cage I've ever owned. DDing this bike saves me a good bit of money each week. Though I think I'm going back to a V8 Challenger for winter soon, lol.
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October 10th, 2016, 02:35 PM | #57 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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If a stock 250 got under 60 I'd be looking for something wrong. I get low-mid 60s with spirited riding on the back roads around here, and my little lightweight daughter gets right around 70.
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October 10th, 2016, 02:53 PM | #58 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
Our beater Ninja 250, without fairings and running near redline most of the time (oldest boy riding...) does get around 40. I get a consistent 50 mpg with my naked SV650 no matter how or where I ride it. Best I've got is just over 60. |
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October 10th, 2016, 03:50 PM | #59 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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Mine has no fairings either, by the way.
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October 11th, 2016, 06:13 AM | #60 | |||
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Seriously, though- What do you mean by this... is it just that I'm stressing this waay too much and as long as they are pretty close then that's plenty good? Plenty close meaning each cylinder is firing reliably at idle and that's all that really matters in syncing the carbs? On another note- my clutch is slipping a bit. Seems to have only happened in 2nd gear for some reason, but that may be cause that's the only gear I've really gotten on it in. It has happened like maybe 3 times, and only when the bike is cold. It slips once, then is fine. Again, I haven't really gotten on it much, haven't had her over 9k rpms yet even. I changed the oil with a standard 10w40 oil as per the reccomendations from kawasaki for my temp range in the area. I honestly looked for a fully synthetic 10w-40, but couldn't find one when I looked. I have since found some, and only through motorcycle shops (I thought Amazon sold everything!). Man, is it pricey. Anyway- I also read somewhere that the fully synthetic isn't good for the wet clutch. But then I read everywhere that it's the best for this bike. If the previous owner had been using synthetic and I switched to standard would this cause the clutch issue? Or is it likely something else? |
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October 11th, 2016, 07:10 AM | #61 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
The standard recommendation for a good quality oil that's inexpensive and rated for cycle clutches is Shell Rotella T6 5W-40. It's a lower-end synthetic, but still far superior to conventional oils. Changing for conventional to synthetic and back does not create any issues. The oil you don't want to use is any standard automotive oil. Chances are you clutch springs need replacing. It's not uncommon, as they are pretty weak even when new. Here's some info on the clutch - http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Clutch_%26_Transmission - last line is the section on spring replacement. Check that your clutch cable adjustment is correct also. |
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October 11th, 2016, 07:19 AM | #62 | |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Quote:
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October 11th, 2016, 08:13 AM | #63 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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Quote:
The whole "Friction Modifier" thing that makes wet clutches slip isn't really the problem as it's only used in 30-grade (and lower) oils. 40-grade oils don't have it. As far as Rotella T6 goes, it is a diesel oil, but has been certified JASO MA for use in wet clutch engines - so it's safe that way plus it has the higher levels of ZDDP that you want with a cycle engine. |
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October 11th, 2016, 08:26 AM | #64 | ||
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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Quote:
Since you already have an IR thermometer, you can also use that on the head pipes after starting it and letting it idle a couple minutes, to get a good idea which cylinder is doing more work. Idle mixture can change the temperature, but synch will change it a lot more. Quote:
As far as my general philosophy about stressing on details, I do prefer riding to worrying about what the best oil is, where to buy ethanol-free gasoline, and whether my carbs are the tiniest bit out of synch. |
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October 11th, 2016, 08:56 AM | #65 |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Good info both of you guys. Thanks for the clarification, Triple Jim. =)
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October 11th, 2016, 09:08 AM | #66 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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October 11th, 2016, 10:05 AM | #67 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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Oh... I really wasn't pointing at anything specific, and I do try to use an oil that's kind to non-roller cams and lifters as you suggested. I'd just rather ride than search the web all afternoon, looking for the best $25/qt synthetic oil. A lot of 2-stroke guys have strong opinions on why high priced synthetics are needed, yet my H2 has been running on dyno oil, and lately on Walmart TC-W3, since I got it in 1978.
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October 11th, 2016, 10:28 AM | #68 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: Brandon
Location: Monroe, NC
Join Date: Aug 2016 Motorcycle(s): 07 Ninja 250 Cafe Racer Posts: 55
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Quote:
Yes, it counts from the top. Since you are raising the needles. And yes it's better to be slightly rich than risk damaging your motor.
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October 11th, 2016, 10:37 AM | #69 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Lean at wide open throttle can cause problems, but if lean in the midrange were dangerous, all stock 250 would suffer damage. Mine was so lean it surged pretty badly until I shimmed the needles a little, but it had run about 14,000 at the stock lean setting when I got it. Needle position does not have an effect on wide open throttle mixture, that's where the main jets determine mixture.
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October 16th, 2016, 10:43 AM | #70 |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Sorry to bump this thread but...
What are the stock jets in the 2007 Ninja 250? I got my needle clips in today and pulled the carb back out to get the clips put in properly... Luckily I have done it so many times it was about an hour from start to finish. Thats with the bike fully dressed to the bike again fully dressed, lol. While I had the carbs off I took a high res picture of both the jets. I couldn't read the main jet size on either one because some fool munged up the slot on the top trying to get it out (previous owner). I can read an 8 for sure, and what looked like a 0 before it #108? but it might have just as easily been a #98. The pilot jet was a #38, I could read the size on both of those. The bike seems to be running well, but I'm hoping that at least the main has been upgraded to a richer than stock jet, because of my free flow exhaust and K&N air filter. I have both of my needles on the 3rd clip down from the top. Idle mixture screws are turned in, then backed out 2.5 turns. When I got the bike put back together- I primed the bowls using the vacuum port on the petcock, once I saw fuel stop moving (clear inline filter), I cranked the bike with full choke. It fired right up in less than 1 second of cranking- I immediately removed the choke and it settled down to a proper idle and ran smooth. Once warmed up I blipped the throttle and it rose without hesitation, then fell right back down to where it should be- so I think idle mixture is good. Anyway- stock jets? I think this is the dynajet kit, as they recommend the stage 1-3 be replaced with a #98 main and the needle clip at the position I have ti set to with the idle mixture where I set it. Figure this is a good starting point and I can work from here to fine tune.
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October 16th, 2016, 11:13 AM | #71 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Idle mixture is normally set with a hot engine, and adjusted for maximum RPM. Erring slightly on the rich side is better than on the lean side.
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October 16th, 2016, 12:44 PM | #72 |
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Name: Chris
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The DJ kit should have inckuded DJ main jets to match theirneedle profile.
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October 16th, 2016, 02:06 PM | #73 |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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October 16th, 2016, 04:46 PM | #74 | |
Daily Ninjette rider
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Quote:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Can_I_i...ole_jet_kit%3F ".......the pilot jet is part number Keihin N424-25........ Stock on the F and J bikes is 38.......... The main jet is Keihin 99101-393........... The stock mains you have should be 105."
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October 16th, 2016, 04:51 PM | #75 | |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Quote:
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October 16th, 2016, 05:56 PM | #76 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
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October 29th, 2016, 07:55 AM | #77 |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
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Sorry to bump this thread guys, but I have a quick question about jets. So according to the above link (http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Can_I_i...ole_jet_kit%3F) the stock main jet size is a 105. I have the dynajet kit in my bike- it was installed by the previous owner. The pilot jet is a #38, which is stock, but it *looks* like the main has been changed to (assumably dynajet) either a 108 or a 98. That would convert to a 112.5 or a 100, respectively, in Keihin sizing. My question is this... I have a K&N air filter with the stock airbox and a set of (basically) straight pipes. Wouldn't a Keihin size 100 be waaaay too small of a main jet for this setup? As in It would run like crap and not really be ridable? Then, I'm wondering if its the larger of the two then maybe that's quite a bit too much main. I can't read the number on the main- the last guy messed up the top with a screwdriver (both mains). I can read the 8 and what looks like a 0 in front of it, but it could just as easily be a 9, as all I can see is the curved right side of the number.
As far as drivability... WOT runs great. I would rather it run a little rich than too lean, but I don't want to be wasting gas either. I'm thinking I need to tweak the mid-range a bit by adjusting the needle, but I'm not sure which way to go. I'll probably start by going richer, just to err on the side of caution and see if performance changes for the good or bad. I'm about to pull the carbs off again right now to do that then I'm gonna take her for a spin. It's a beautiful day here- I'm looking forward to it. =) Thank for the help- |
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October 29th, 2016, 08:06 AM | #78 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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Being a little rich on the main won't change gas mileage much, unless you run with the throttle between 3/4 and wide open most of the time. My experience is that the needle position is what has the most effect on mileage.
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October 29th, 2016, 01:02 PM | #79 |
One ugly son of a gun.
Name: Andrew
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: Sep 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250 Posts: 167
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Well, I pulled the carbs out and raised the needles 1 position. The bike now runs quite a bit better in the midrange... Just really smooth. Unfortunately now my butter smooth idle has a bit of a surge to it. Not much, I can hear it more than see it in the tachometer... Is that an indication of imbalance or what? I leaned the air/fuel mixture screws by 1/4 turn (all the way in, then out 2 1/4 turns), but they are both in the same position... Not sure what would have caused this.
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October 29th, 2016, 01:08 PM | #80 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
Name: Jim
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My procedure for setting idle mixture is to adjust for maximum RPM, erring very slightly on the rich side. Others may prefer different methods. The needle position should have close to zero effect on the idle mixture.
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