June 26th, 2014, 07:41 AM | #41 | |
Freedom for Germany
Location: This World
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R-FI Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
But from what I think also his build infos are worth to look for: http://www.zxr400.de/board/viewtopic...0834&start=555 In the build threat he also describes how to find the right a/f and there are many pictures too. |
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June 26th, 2014, 08:33 AM | #42 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: tony
Location: central Calif
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): [2] 2006 Ninja 250s, [3]DRZs, [3]GasGas450s, [1]KDX 225 2 stroke,[1]650HondaCX, [1]Honda CBR1000rr Posts: 40
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Quote:
Liteweight sport bikes under 300 lbs with a gal of gas are rare but they are well within the capabilities of a willing mfg. I have 2 supermoto bikes that are under 285 lbs with a gal of gas. They are fun. However I would be interested in a well made 250 to 400cc sport bike. I already have more than 10 bikes now and I really cant think of anything other than a sub 300lb sport bike(fairings) that would interest me The ninjas I have now..1 with a carb kit and comp mufflers are fun but they just dont have the speed or performane(brakes and suspension) of the SMs. Tony |
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June 26th, 2014, 09:15 AM | #43 | |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
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Quote:
comparing to a sumo is apples and oranges my friend. 1 cylinder, you save probably 20lbs right there between combine engine weight and intake/exhaust parts light weight spoke wheels easily save a few lbs on a sumo + small plastic tank now start factoring weight for fairing stays + fairings just those things alone will add up to over 35lbs easy An MX 450 tips the scales at ~240lbs and that is bare bones no messing around lean mean machine, add ~35lbs for things mentioned above then another 20 for battery, lights, wiring, signals, tach ect... and you end up with an additional 55lbs total putting you at 295lbs and I think that is pretty conservative Like I mentioned before, you can drop some weight quick with losing material especially for a track bike, BUT when it comes down to the nitty gritty you are going to shell out some serious cash for CF & Ti parts, no way around it. You want a 300lb performance 4t streetbike of any cc? be prepared to pay some serious cash keep in mind a 450 mx bike costs close to $8-9k new, left overs can be had for around $7k
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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June 26th, 2014, 10:16 AM | #44 |
ninjette.org member
Name: tony
Location: central Calif
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): [2] 2006 Ninja 250s, [3]DRZs, [3]GasGas450s, [1]KDX 225 2 stroke,[1]650HondaCX, [1]Honda CBR1000rr Posts: 40
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@subzero
Your right in principle but some of your weight calculations are a bit off. Weight of the 250 ninja motor was about the same as the weight of my 450 motors. The weight of my front ninja wheel with tire was actually 3 lbs lighter than my spoked SM front wheel. Your weights for mx to plated bike are really off. The weight difference between the GasGas mx and plated ENDURO is 18 lbs. Tony |
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June 26th, 2014, 11:00 AM | #45 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
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maybe that's because it is not the weight for a plated mx bike
The weight of the MX bike is used as a absolute minimum weight starting point for bare essentials. ~240lbs Add all things needed for a reliable streetable performance sportbike and you will find it hard to be under 300lbs with out amassing quite the asking price. there is no way around it. Do you think mfg make their bikes heavy on purpose? I can see it now "hey Bob, we could make the same bike 50lbs lighter with out increasing cost but ya know what, lets just make it heavier for the hell of it." 125cc single cylinder 2t streetable sport bikes barely get under 300lbs how are you going to do it with a twin or more 4t? When you figure it out call the big 4 and have a bidding war, you my friend will be a rich man
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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June 26th, 2014, 11:18 AM | #46 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Firman
Location: Surabaya, Indonesia
Join Date: Nov 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2011 red ninja 250r Posts: 94
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If only there is a willing manufacturer to research and produce direct or port injected 2 stroke bike, then super lightweight sportbike with enough punch we all dream should be possible, while still economical and passing emission regs.
The technology is there, it's only because all manufacturers has invest heavily on 4 strokes. I know fuel injection on 2 stroke is vastly different than 4 stroke, e.g how to inject 2 stroke oil into the dry crankcase, keep it minimum to pass emission test, while still prevent the engine seizing up.
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Corner is what the ninjette is made for. |
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June 26th, 2014, 11:51 AM | #47 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: tony
Location: central Calif
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): [2] 2006 Ninja 250s, [3]DRZs, [3]GasGas450s, [1]KDX 225 2 stroke,[1]650HondaCX, [1]Honda CBR1000rr Posts: 40
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Quote:
But GasGas Beta and KTM seem to been able to plate their mx bikes for an increase in weight of less than 25lbs. The stuff they use is flimsy but it does get the job done. The ktm spec listed the 450 mx at 230 lbs and the plated 450 enduro at 254 lbs. Not sure what fluids they included but the difference between the 2 is 24 lbs. As I mentioned above the GG difference was less than 20 lbs. When I bought my 1000 CBR rr it was about the same price as the1000 CBRxx. The xx had nice stuff on it all chromed and Shiney while the stuff on the rr was kind of flimsy. The difference however was that the rr weighed 100 lbs less and all that weight savings didnt cost me any more than the price of the xx. Tony |
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June 26th, 2014, 12:05 PM | #48 | |
ninjette.org member
Name: tony
Location: central Calif
Join Date: Oct 2013 Motorcycle(s): [2] 2006 Ninja 250s, [3]DRZs, [3]GasGas450s, [1]KDX 225 2 stroke,[1]650HondaCX, [1]Honda CBR1000rr Posts: 40
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Quote:
Thats because in calif you can't plate a 300 cc ktm. A plated 2 stroke would be nice. I had enough of them when I was younger and I always liked them. Tony |
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June 26th, 2014, 12:14 PM | #49 | ||
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
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Quote:
A plated MX bike consists of, headlight, taillight, plate bracket, a small battery and minimal wiring, little tach, and maybe some bar end mirrors. There is your 25lbs, that is all. <- this is not the same same as making a streetable sport bike! Ktm specs 450 at 235lbs so a streetable bare bones mx bike weighs ~255lbs So you are going to add another cylinder or more, extra fuel and air delivery bits, more exhaust piping, fairing stays, cooling fan, additional electrical for signals and sensors ect..., real lights, boat loads of fairings, huggers, a much bigger heavier metal gas tank, bigger heavier rotors and calipers maybe x 2 up front, most likely heavier wheels all with the remaining 45lbs of cap room you have left? ...... Tool kit weights like 5lbs alone... lol again, you seem to have it all figured out, give Yamy a call Quote:
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
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June 26th, 2014, 12:53 PM | #50 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: xorbe
Location: Bay Area, CA
Join Date: Jun 2013 Motorcycle(s): N650 (and others) Posts: 408
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Meta-comment, but that was an interesting read about bike weight
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September 12th, 2022, 06:27 AM | #51 |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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I swear, I don’t own a crystal ball. Of course, the ZX-4R will weight more than that… but it did end up at 400cc for our market and 250cc in others (ZX-25R).
Wish the pics referred to in the old OP were still around. |
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September 12th, 2022, 10:17 AM | #52 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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ZX-4R will be exciting. I rode FZR-400 back in '80s when they came out, so much fun, especially considering rival 600s were in 450lbs+ range. My brother's VFR400R is pretty fun as well.
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September 14th, 2022, 05:07 AM | #53 |
dirty boy
Name: Joe
Location: Johnstown, PA
Join Date: Sep 2012 Motorcycle(s): I don't even know anymore?? Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Apr '14
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I don't know, seems like history repeating itself again and we will fall back into the same stupid situations.
Big mfg make small displacement road bikes.... they get a following, lots of people like them, lots of people want more power. Big mfg gives bikes slightly more cc's, people still want more power...... big mfg add more cc's.and now the difference in engine displacement has swung close enough between a few bikes that the slightly less powerful bike doesn't sell as well because people say. "well... why not just get a 600?" I feel like I would be in that boat. 400 cc isn't small enough to really pull me into that small displacement ring it out kinda vibes, I'm not buying a 400, i'd just go straight for the 600 and want to have something else in the 250-300 range for small displacement enjoyment. Too bad it seems like none of the 250 IL4's get released in the US.
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I love the smell of burning pre-mix in the morning I don't think I'm a lot dumber than you thought that I think that I thought I was once. |
1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
September 14th, 2022, 05:20 AM | #54 | |
CPT Falcon
Name: J.Emmett Turner
Location: Newnan, GA
Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '08 CP Blue EX250J, '97 unpainted EX250F, 2nd '97 unpainted EX250F (no engine), '07 black EX250F Posts: A lot.
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Quote:
The displacement creep identity crisis was more about market differentiation too, since it didn’t happen until the other manufacturers started showing up with their 250s and 300s. The ZX-4R is going to be pretty close, but the ZX-6R has been through similar identity crises (636 to 599 and back to 636, anyone?). Some even say they will cancel it in many markets or only offer a track use version, perhaps because the ZX-4R is a bit too close and they’d rather have some breathing room for pricing it. |
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